Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

VAR - Love or Hate?

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VAR needs to be given time. Refs need to improve regardless of VAR or no VAR. I for one think it is going to help the game. Hope assistant refs get instructed to overturn main refs decisions.

Silva Martial Azpi and probably Kane should all have had pens. But they wouldnt have got pens even if there was no VAR.

I just dont get advocating for no VAR specially since everyone is agreed that refs get it wrong in real time so often.
 
noodlehair said:
I'm fairly sure we are the only country who uses VAR like this, and I'm fairly sure it's down to our referees being too stuck up their own arses to accept that it helps them correct their mistakes rather than helps them prove they never make any.

It's either that or it's deliberately being fecked up to prevent it making things more fair. Which seems ridiculous but when you use a video ref to deliberately get things wrong there isn't a lot of room to hide. Every mistake that VAR doesn't correct you can no longer consider a "mistake".
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I wouldn't go that far but yes, what they're doing is really weird. They should be embracing the system. I'd rather have a ref that makes 2 mistakes every game and gets corrected than an egomaniac that will ruin a game with his stubbornness once a month.
 
noodlehair said:
I'm fairly sure we are the only country who uses VAR like this, and I'm fairly sure it's down to our referees being too stuck up their own arses to accept that it helps them correct their mistakes rather than helps them prove they never make any.

It's either that or it's deliberately being fecked up to prevent it making things more fair. Which seems ridiculous but when you use a video ref to deliberately get things wrong there isn't a lot of room to hide. Every mistake that VAR doesn't correct you can no longer consider a "mistake".
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The worst and annoying part of VAR, at least for the match going fans, was when the ref walked over to the TV to review his call. The FA basically said that, we will try to keep it as minimum as possible, which the PGMOL took it up a notch and didn't bother using it at all. They have the option to review their call on TV screen, but it hasn't happened in 30 games, which clearly shows that both the Ref and VAR are trying their best to avoid interruptions. They are trying to please too many people by doing so and ending up frustrating both the pro and anti VAR groups.

That's an interesting point, specially in terms of the metrics they will release at the end of the season. And that's where I disagree with the data from other leagues showing that VAR has increased accuracy from 95 to 99%, that's bollocks, because like you said, they don't factor in the decisions for which VAR was not used, but clear and obvious otherwise.
 
awop said:
I wouldn't go that far but yes, what they're doing is really weird. They should be embracing the system. I'd rather have a ref that makes 2 mistakes every game and gets corrected than an egomaniac that will ruin a game with his stubbornness once a month.
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It's a video ref, so a mistake within the scope of what it should look at, which then isn't corrected, is no longer a mistake. It's an error that a deliberate choice has been made not to correct. It isn't harsh it's just a fact that there is no getting round.

We've had the "subjective call" argument, but there were at least 4 errors this weekend alone that left very little room for a subjective opinion, that VAR still chose to ignore. It is not a subjective call whether hauling someone down by the neck as they are about to score or whacking them full pelt in the knee is a foul, or throwing yourself into them.

The issue you have now is the on pitch referee relying on VAR to avoid making a difficult call himself, which is actually fine in itself, but then the VAR ref refusing to make the call because that would mean admitting the on field ref got it wrong. They have pretty much admitted that this is what they are doing and it defeats the purpose of a video ref entirely.
 
bleedred said:
The worst and annoying part of VAR, at least for the match going fans, was when the ref walked over to the TV to review his call. The FA basically said that, we will try to keep it as minimum as possible, which the PGMOL took it up a notch and didn't bother using it at all. They have the option to review their call on TV screen, but it hasn't happened in 30 games, which clearly shows that both the Ref and VAR are trying their best to avoid interruptions. They are trying to please too many people by doing so and ending up frustrating both the pro and anti VAR groups.

That's an interesting point, specially in terms of the metrics they will release at the end of the season. And that's where I disagree with the data from other leagues showing that VAR has increased accuracy from 95 to 99%, that's bollocks, because like you said, they don't factor in the decisions for which VAR was not used, but clear and obvious otherwise.
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This is the crux of it, I think.

VAR by its nature prioritises correct decisions over a lack of intervention. Yet the PL have come up with a VAR system that prioritises a lack of intervention over correct decisions. Which creates a mess as it is at cross purposes with itself.

A coherent VAR system might have seen more delay but it would also have seen most of those contriversial penalty decisions at least getting reviewed again by the referee. At which point we could at least say VAR was doing what it was supposed to do (even if some weren't happy with how long it took) or definitively say the referee was at fault for making the wrong decsion twice. There would be much fewer complaints in this thread if that was the case as at least those who are in favour of VAR would be happy that it was doing what they wanted.

A VAR system that doesn't even satisfy those who want VAR is pointless as there is no VAR system that will satisfy those who don't. So who the hell is the PL's system supposed to satisfy?
 
sullydnl said:
A VAR system that doesn't even satisfy those who want VAR is pointless as there is no VAR system that will satisfy those who don't. So who the hell is the PL's system supposed to satisfy?
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Nicely summed up :lol: Only England could manage to feck up a pretty straight up system.
 
Totally agree.

Worse though, I can almost hear the refs asking ''How are we going to do this? We mustn't let it make us look stupid.''
 
Another completely laughable decision in Villa's game today where VAR should clearly intervene.

Grealish is tackled as he passes leading to a goal, but the ref wrongly sees it Grealish as the offender and gives a freekick cancelling the equalizer. Anyone with 2 eyes can clearly see this is a wrong decision, but yet VAR doesn't intervene costing Villa a point. Great protests from the Villa players
 
Themain reason it's annoying me is because it's fixing what doesn't need fixing and leaving what it should be there for as bad as ever.
 
And another terrible decision by VAR again, as a handball was involved in Newcastle's game at a goal. Yet no consistency and interference in this one.

Just terrible - There's not even consistency in the decisions
 
ROFLUTION said:
Another completely laughable decision in Villa's game today where VAR should clearly intervene.

Grealish is tackled as he passes leading to a goal, but the ref wrongly sees it Grealish as the offender and gives a freekick cancelling the equalizer. Anyone with 2 eyes can clearly see this is a wrong decision, but yet VAR doesn't intervene costing Villa a point. Great protests from the Villa players
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It's a very weird one. If they don't score after that pass i would tend to agree that Grealish dived to get a penalty. Seeing he still manage to give it to a teamate he doesn't scream for a pen.
I honestly don't know what to think of it. Seems very harsh/wrong either way.

EDIT: I'm talking shit, Zaha touching him before makes him lose some balance and it's not that clear of a dive to justify taking the goal back. Referee & VAR howler.
 
Dancfc said:
Themain reason it's annoying me is because it's fixing what doesn't need fixing and leaving what it should be there for as bad as ever.
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Even worse IMO since they're looking at Tielemans potentially breaking someone's ankle and choosing not to act upon it. Without the excuse of looking away, having their view obstructed etc, how are they defending letting such things pass? Is stamping suddenly allowed? How is a referee that deems that not worthy of a red card even allowed to officiate football for a living?
 
Was a nonsense. I know Jack has reputation as going down easily at times but here he's running at full pace, gets a nudge from Kouyate so starts to lose his balance yet still gets the pass out to Lansbury. As he's falling Cahil seems to wipe him out anyway.

To not even have a look or for it to be referred is poor but then VAR isn't giving clear penalties so the implementation is all wrong so far.
 
awop said:
It's a very weird one. If they don't score after that pass i would tend to agree that Grealish dived to get a penalty. Seeing he still manage to give it to a teamate he doesn't scream for a pen.
I honestly don't know what to think of it. Seems very harsh/wrong either way.
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He was pushed off balance previous to the dive/pass (outside the box). The reason he couldn't do anything other than pass the ball was because he was put off balance by the challenge where he chose to stay on his feet.

Another instance where a player is punished for staying on his feet (in the first instance) and the ref doesn't have the brains to spot a foul. Then refs wonder why players are making their jobs harder by choosing to go down/diving for fouls/embellishing contact.
 
Isn't all of this designed to create drama and controversy? I thought that's what they wanted so that people can spend hours debating stuff on telly and in the press and coming back for more.

It's all product marketing.
 
Anustart89 said:
He was pushed off balance previous to the dive/pass (outside the box). The reason he couldn't do anything other than pass the ball was because he was put off balance by the challenge where he chose to stay on his feet.

Another instance where a player is punished for staying on his feet (in the first instance) and the ref doesn't have the brains to spot a foul. Then refs wonder why players are making their jobs harder by choosing to go down/diving for fouls/embellishing contact.
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Agreed, i edited it. Goal should have stood and VAR should have corrected the ref but we all know they don't do that on this island...
 
I think english referees are too arrogant to use VAR properly and stick to their original decisions to prove that they are the ones in charge.
 
Anustart89 said:
Even worse IMO since they're looking at Tielemans potentially breaking someone's ankle and choosing not to act upon it. Without the excuse of looking away, having their view obstructed etc, how are they defending letting such things pass? Is stamping suddenly allowed? How is a referee that deems that not worthy of a red card even allowed to officiate football for a living?
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We had a pefectly legit goal at Norwich given THEN reversed after review, it's need serious refinement or it will ruin the game.
 
Being used to protect referees rather than getting the right decision. Just about sums up the incompetence of the FA and people in charge.
 
The problem for the Grealish one is that the ref already blew the whistle before the goal went in. So if VAR indeed says its not a dive, how do they restart?

but regardless, VAR is being used by fellow english refs so they are going to just back their buddies decisions and not advise them they are wrong. The way its used in the league is not complete. It makes no sense.

The penalty decisions have been bad as it is. But Tieleman not getting a red is just shocking.
 
Don't know how these refs can survive the season if this keeps happening
 
The Newcastle goal :lol:

That's inexcusable for the VAR, unless I'm missing something?
Should never be a handball in the spirit of the game (I'm totally against the new rule) but a precedent has already been set.
 
so you've got... :lol: :lol:,

1 - ref blows his whistle, VAR can't intervene if it is wrong, because play has ended as soon as the whistle goes - in itself, this seems pretty reasonable - it's what the ref is there for, & so on

but

2 - the ref doesn't blow his whistle (because he has the VAR on back up, :)) and VAR don't want to intervene to help because they don't want to undermine the referee

they aren't really trying to make this work are they?
 
FootballHQ said:
Was a nonsense. I know Jack has reputation as going down easily at times but here he's running at full pace, gets a nudge from Kouyate so starts to lose his balance yet still gets the pass out to Lansbury. As he's falling Cahil seems to wipe him out anyway.

To not even have a look or for it to be referred is poor but then VAR isn't giving clear penalties so the implementation is all wrong so far.
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It was a scandalous decision. Booked him for diving when he didn't dive, disallowed a genuine goal when no offence took place and even after blowing the whistle prematurely, Cahill fouled him anyway so it should have been a penalty.

3 absolute howlers can be put down to mistakes by the onfield ref. But when the VAR watches it and refuses to overrule 3 obvious mistakes, it gets far more serious.

They just shouldn't bother with VAR. It's been implemented in a way to ensure the referees don't have their feelings hurt rather than to ensure the correct decision is made.
 
One thing that I’m not sure of, I thought it yesterday while watching our match.

At one point rashford made a run and I thought he was offside, but as instructed now the linesman doesn’t raise is flag just incase and play continues. The ball then went out for a corner.
If rashford scored it would have been checked and maybe ruled now offside.
Because it went out for a corner it wasn’t checked, the corner stood and may have led to a goal.

So if linesmen are now not going to raise their flag unless it’s a certain offside isn’t that a massive advantage to attackers making offside runs and then getting corners/ free kicks from offside positions?

I had trouble wording that but have I got that right? Surely we can’t go on like that.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
One thing that I’m not sure of, I thought it yesterday while watching our match.

At one point rashford made a run and I thought he was offside, but as instructed now the linesman doesn’t raise is flag just incase and play continues. The ball then went out for a corner.
If rashford scored it would have been checked and maybe ruled now offside.
Because it went out for a corner it wasn’t checked, the corner stood and may have led to a goal.

So if linesmen are now not going to raise their flag unless it’s a certain offside isn’t that a massive advantage to attackers making offside runs and then getting corners/ free kicks from offside positions?

I had trouble wording that but have I got that right? Surely we can’t go on like that.
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The defence has the opportunity to 'reset' & defend the corner properly, isn't it? - :D.
 
It's 4 games into prem, and it's already being used not to it's full potential! Iether go with it, properly or bin it off now! Our officials are already the worst in Europe, now there even getting VAR wrong.

Villa Goal .??? WTF. Why is it here? If it cannot overturn a blatant error buy the premier league's useless officials what's it here for? To be used when the useless officials want to use it! Is corruptable even more now than ever! Get Rid of it Now
 
Zlatan 7 said:
At one point rashford made a run and I thought he was offside, but as instructed now the linesman doesn’t raise is flag just incase and play continues. The ball then went out for a corner.
If rashford scored it would have been checked and maybe ruled now offside.
Because it went out for a corner it wasn’t checked, the corner stood and may have led to a goal.
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I thought the instruction was to let the attack play out, but Martial was flagged offside in the Wolves game, replays suggest he was comfortably onside but the flag had stopped our attack, it’s inconsistent.
 
Ironic thing is one of the the main complaints of VAR by people who don't want VAR is that it's not getting used enough.
 
If only Mourinho and Wenger were still here during this... The media would wank themsleves to death with the gems they'd be offering :lol:
 
I have had a thought about this: a few years ago, I can't remember exactly when, Referees were going to tighten up on the shirt-pulling and general kerfuffle before and as a corner takes place. For the 1st two or three weeks they did just that, but then over time things went back to how they had been before.

I think a similar thing is happening with VAR. Remember in Utd.s second match - a Monday night game vs Wolves. Jimenez scored a cracker, but then there was a VAR delay and I was thinking if they chalk that off, VAR needs to go....(he's in my F.F. team!) but it was given the all clear. This past weekend I don't recall anything like that, VAR seems to be settling down and to be used only occasionally, which is as it should be.
 
Wumminator said:
So rather than admit VAR isn’t working you’d rather... believe there’s a conspiracy of referees to make their job harder and with less opportunities?
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This useless and spineless version of VAR isn't working, everybody can admit that.
 
there's not much wrong with VAR; the problem is how it is used and the morons in charge. If used as DRS is in cricket, it would be absolutely fine. This nonsense about refs having blown their whistle and the guidelines are a fecking joke. Just use it to get things right... not much to ask but at the moment we are using it the same way Ed Woodward discusses contracts
 
Wumminator said:
So rather than admit VAR isn’t working you’d rather... believe there’s a conspiracy of referees to make their job harder and with less opportunities?
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How they use it is broken to me. Obviously there is an exageration with that post that such a clever poster like you couldn't have missed you
 
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