Why's it pedantic? I don't really understand why anyone would complain about a key and potentially multimillion pound decision being awarded correctly.
Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)
- Thread starter RedFish
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Why's it pedantic? I don't really understand why anyone would complain about a key and potentially multimillion pound decision being awarded correctly.
Think the difference between VAR in football as opposed to tennis or all the American sports where gamss usually end with scores like 1038302 - 1038301, is that a goal in football is a really big thing. Which means that having it overturned after performing your entire victory dance makes you really sad.
In the end offside's just offside though. Whether it's a millimeter or half the pitch. Pausing the situation at the exact nanosecond is a different story of course.
In the end offside's just offside though. Whether it's a millimeter or half the pitch. Pausing the situation at the exact nanosecond is a different story of course.
It's not being pedantic when the difference can be champions league football or not. It's a matter of principle.
Before VAR, let's say a goal was scored and allowed to stand. After the game, some obsessive person decided to spend an hour of his precious time pausing and reversing replays and came back arguing that the goal should have been disallowed because the scorer's toe-nail was offside. What would you have told him?
My bet is you would have told him to get lost and get a life. Because before VAR, common sense still prevailed. People understood that football was a game of margins and human errors, and that getting every single offside call right down to the last millimetre wasn't just impossible, it wasn't even something to aspire to.
Now, common sense has been replaced by pedantry, and the tosser who was laughed at for shouting "but his toe-nail was offside!" is now the tosser calling the shots.
It genuinely baffles me that there are football fans who don't see it this way.
I listened to a cricket podcast earlier where they explained the issue with it quite well. In cricket DRS gives wickets as much as it takes them away, VAR seems to only be there to disallow goals for very marginal offsides despite the technology being flawed so it's effectively just making the game less enjoyable.
That happens already - MOTD/Sky Sports make up most of their post match analysis about marginal calls like this.
I'm getting more enjoyment now knowing that I'm less likely to be annoyed at a referee.
How is getting all offside calls right not something to aspire to? If I found out Iniesta's 2010 goal was offside by a metric so small it hasnt even be invented yet, I would petition FIFA for a replay of the final until the day I die.
These calls feel shite and unfair, but they're not, they're fair. It's a fecking buzzkill for everyone but the team benefitting from it, but offside is a very clearcut rule.
I think using VAR for i terpretation calls like handball are much more suspect.
Before VAR, no sensible person would bemoan an offside call as marginal as the ones we're now seeing overturned week in, week out. That's simply not true. There was no-one, not a single person, who felt that the point of VAR was to overturn offside decision that requires pausing and reversing multiple replays. VAR was meant to correct obvious mistakes. A toe-nail offside can never be an obvious mistake.
If that's the case, then I believe our understanding of what football is and should be is so far apart that there's no point discussing any further.
I can only point to the way VAR is currently used and say: That's why.
The problem is the technology and the people operating it aren't as accurate as they make it out to be, there has to be a margin of error accounted for in there somewhere (and I'm a big proponent of VAR). The frame after which the ball has been passed from the 'assist maker', the thickness of the line, and the parallax effect all have to be taken into account to get the correct decision, and this doesn't seem to be taken into account in that palace goal. I think with the introduction of VAR, the offside rule should be amended in some way (not sure what though to be honest).
I think it could actually be fixed, or at least improved, easily enough with some common sense: No pausing, no slowing down, no reversing or fast-forwarding and a 20 second time-limit. If you can't call it easily within two or three replays, then it's just not an obvious error, and so the call stands. Simple as that.
Which one of you put the bung in today then?
I disagree with having a time limit but I think the no editing of a picture may actually be a good idea.
Where's your bad VAR decision tonight?
Nothing clear/obvs imo on the pen to enable an overrule of the ref's decision.
You're all agreed it's offside.
Just saying.
Nothing clear/obvs imo on the pen to enable an overrule of the ref's decision.
You're all agreed it's offside.
Just saying.
Most of VAR's critics actually acknowledge that it leads to more correct calls (which it obviously does), we just think it kind of ruins the game in the process.
Eh? Lindelof got nothing of the ball and all of the man. That's pretty clear and obvious to me.
Well me, the ref and the VAR say it isn't clear.
I'm not saying Lindelof doesn't bundle into him but what actually happens I don't know.
Apart from tonight, how?
I cant think of any decision we've got that we shouldnt have been given.
Oh the villa penalty but the on field ref gave it anyway as was the case for most of them.
The only big var decision i can remember was evertons offisde disallowed goal.
Exactly.
Not one person out of the millions watching this game would have had a problem with that Crystal Palace goal. It would never have been called offside at any stage in the history of football apart from this year.
I don't care about getting to tournaments if I can't celebrate a goal properly without worrying about it being overturned like that.
It's just not football. I don't understand people who like it
Anecdotally I don't think it's led to more correct calls in the premier league this season. So many dreadful mistakes, selective reviewing of incidents, even offside hasn't been applied consistently. Very obvious bias towards Liverpool till they won the title and Spurs till they couldn't make top 4.
It's been abysmal!
Not even talking about the process and game slowdown.
I thought it was working well in La Liga until last few games, they tried to manufacture a title race or not sure exactly what went wrong? R Madrid suddenly got every decision going for them, with the usual selective reviewing (see Bilbao game) etc we had already seen in the premier league all season.
You've never seen a linesman wrongly call a goal offside?!
Are people complaining again that VAR correctly disallowed a goal for being offside?
Seems that people have made their mind before VAR was even introduced. It does not matter that it is working correctly, that it is disallowing illegal goals, moaners gonna moan. Well, naught to do, maybe after a decade or two they will stop moaning.
Seems that people have made their mind before VAR was even introduced. It does not matter that it is working correctly, that it is disallowing illegal goals, moaners gonna moan. Well, naught to do, maybe after a decade or two they will stop moaning.
I think so too. I said at the beginning more correct decisions wasn't going to be better. They said it had to be.
Doesn't seem like it.
How correct was it? No one really knows
Hush, linesman never did mistakes before VAR. In fact they might have done, but they weren't mistakes. Cause as we all know, a totally objective decision like offside, should be a subjective one and depend on the mood of the referee.
About 5 inches correct or so.
I never had a problem with an offside called wrong. It's wrong but it's immediate.
VAR sucks the life out of football. It removes the elation of scoring goals which is unforgivable for me
I don't know about you, but I was elated about that goal being rescinded. So I guess the net elation was probably about the same.
That kind of strawmanning doesn't suit anyone. Only makes you look childish.
I genuinely don’t think it’s a foul.
zaha steps over the ball and throws his leg into lindelofs path.he initiated the contact while Lindelöf tries to kick the ball.
these buffoons can’t even see it
zaha steps over the ball and throws his leg into lindelofs path.he initiated the contact while Lindelöf tries to kick the ball.
these buffoons can’t even see it
Wish they had the same energy discussing Romelu incident.
feck me Robbie Savage is absolutely insufferable. It's patently not clear and obvious, though! He gets the ball!
The only childish ones are those who think that offside should not have been ruled out as an offside.
Nice oneYou celebrate disallowed goals the same way you celebrate a goal scored?
It’s annoying how much of a big deal they are making over this yet barely anything was said about that horrible challenge on Greenwood. The penalty call was completely subjective.
I think it’s a foul.
But clearly it’s debatable, and it’s not clear and obvious - therefore VAR should not be overruling the decision.
This is actually VAR working as it should.
I’m terms of the offside, it’s offside, and it doesn’t matter by how much, it’s not a goal, and there can be no debate.
Personally I think there should be more allowances given to the attacking team, but those are not the rules by which both teams play by at the moment.
But clearly it’s debatable, and it’s not clear and obvious - therefore VAR should not be overruling the decision.
This is actually VAR working as it should.
I’m terms of the offside, it’s offside, and it doesn’t matter by how much, it’s not a goal, and there can be no debate.
Personally I think there should be more allowances given to the attacking team, but those are not the rules by which both teams play by at the moment.
The frame rate for VAR is 50fps apparently. If you're doing 30kph (easily possible for top players) when the offside is called then between frames you could have travelled nearly 17cm. So to overturn the assistant for the sake of 2 or 3cm is frankly fecking ridiculous.
Edit: And that's if you assume the defender is stationary relative to you. If he was actually stepping up the other way then it could be even further between frames.
Edit: And that's if you assume the defender is stationary relative to you. If he was actually stepping up the other way then it could be even further between frames.
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Not really elation. Relief & glad it didn’t stand, but same elation as a goal..?