But the ref was surrounded, talking to VAR almost immediately. VAR didnt flag that up, the players pressured the ref imo. I mean it was his heel, its by pure chance that players not in line and not at Matic as the ball was struck happened to be right
Also thought this. I thought he was clearly offside for that goal, was it Greenwoods second?
I usually don’t like analogies but that made me laugh and is bang on
But that decision was given by Mike Dean was it not?
It was the ref who gave the penalty. Then VAR checked it.
It had nothing to do with players complaining. Every goal is checked by VAR regardless if players complain or not. Every possible penalty is checked by VAR regardless if players complain or not (for example the penalty against PSG where players did not complain).
It does not. Under the current rules, intention does not matter, if you have opposite players near you it does not matter. The only thing that matters is if the ball touches your hand/arm or not. It did. Which is why the pen was given.
I suppose this big question is, would he have made the decision had he not known he had VAR to fall back on?
I agree mate. I’m not a fan of VAR at all, or Mike Dean for that matter
Its a nothing point but Dean was talking to VAR before they were checking the goal, unless Im remembering it wrongly.
I believe for every goal the ref checks with VAR. In any case, every goal is checked by VAR.
As you wish. After all, projecting wishes into reality is trendy nowadays.
No, it does not. Under section Handballs, the second point is saying that "The handball rule now has extra clarity because it does not consider intent by a player." (and I posted in the above post the fourth and fifth directives that have to do with unnatural positions). It is the first point, who is talking for goals scored by hand "Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season even if it is accidental.".
That confirms my point. The only scenario where it’s an automatic handball if the ball touches your hand is leading up to a goal.
For penalties all the usual crap about “unnatural position” still applies and a player can inadvertently handle the ball without conceding a penalty.
I think the second line refers to the first line you haven't quoted, "Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season even if it is accidental" that is when a goal is scored, rather than referring to the subsequent lines.
Why though? Cause we want it to be so, or why?
I totally agree. But it is not the way it is. The forces who decided these things decided that intent does not matter anymore.
What you say just isn't true though. It isn't just deflections.
Yeah, you're right. I corrected it with the silhouette thingy in the other post. Essentially, as long as the arm is attached to the body instead of making yourself bigger and/or having it above your shoulder, you're fine. Which I assume this is what they meant by the silhouette (though the arm can be behind your body, in which case it is fine too).
Yes, that is its weakness, for me too.
Handball isn't the only reason, or even the primary reason, VAR is terrible. The system doesn't work, slows the game down, and fundamentally alters the nature of the game in the process. Unless it can be an instant check made very sparingly, once or twice a game or sometimes never, then it should be removed.
While I disagree with this, it is a valid argument to have. VAR slows the game, for some people it delays celebration and it breaks the flow of game. Definitely true. Some might think that this overweights the fairness it brings, while I disagree and think that paying this price is okay to get better (more correct) referee decisions.
