Always nice to have a constructive exchange. Very good.
German Football 23/24 |
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Always nice to have a constructive exchange. Very good.
Does Germany require a sponsorship with a German football club to be able to focus on its arms productions?
And are Germany in any imminent danger of being attacked by Israel, Hamas, Saudi Arabia or the Houthis?
Seems the company (or at least a branch of it) was also banned from India for a period of time relatively recently for corruption as well. Though of course they would deny the charges.
Objectively, after this decision, Dortmund should be banned from all European competitions.
In a way, they are supporting human rights violations across the world with this decision.
I wrote in my first post on this topic that I disagree with this sponsorship, because I don't think entertainment/sports and war should be mixed. But if you phrase your question this way then my answer would be "I don't know", because I have no idea whether sufficient public support is lacking or not.
I didn't say that. Though I do think it has some implications for Germany.
As far as I can tell from quickly googling it, it seems like a Swiss subsidiary tried to bribe officials. But regardless of that I have no intention to vouch for Rheinmetall being squeaky clean.
I know you're saying that and I truly believe that you sincerely believe that but its still coming with a 'but'.
I don't see how a sport as tribal as football is conducive to engaging with sponsorship for such a company with one team. Are German Leverkusen or Hoffenheim fans going to watch Dortmund matches now and think the remilitarisation of Germany is acceptable, having previously thought otherwise, because of this sponsorship?
I mean you slightly alluded to it by saying that other conflicts means that Germany has to increase their production further.
We both know how these massive corporations work and the fact they're a subsidiary does not mean they are not part of the company.
Listen, we both know that nobody on here is criticising Rheinmetall for increasing arms production for the Bundeswehr or for the Ukrainian armed forces. This is what NYAS was referring to. You know what the criticism is about. Focusing on how Germany needs to increase its local production is not the point of contention and I think you know that.
Its OK to acknowledge that and its also OK to acknowledge that you personally may not care that much about the impact on countries outside of Germany/Europe (or indeed think that those arms supplies are justified).
For starters it already produced this:
I can't say how effective this will be in the end, but I have little doubt that it already prompted a lot of people to think about this topic and listen to statements like Habeck's. I think it's naive to view this in binary terms, because a very short time ago the topic was more or less a taboo, so the aim is probably gradual normalization.
The rest of your post makes we wonder whether you're aware of how weapon's exports work:
"Weapons designed for warfare may be manufactured, transported or marketed only with the permission of the Federal Government."
Did Germany not already announce a huge influx of money into the armed forces, with little real issue? Or am I imagining that? Has Germany not gone from providing helmets to Ukraine to providing advanced weaponry? Has Scholz not already told Ukraine, now very publicly, that they can strike inside Russia with German weapons? Was that all because of similar sponsorships with Bundesliga clubs we've yet to hear about?
And again, if you were to see a Bayern Munich sponsor, your instinctive reaction as a Dortmund fan would be positive towards that company?
Where did I make any comment on the federal government's role in arms exports? What a weirdly patronising thing to say about something I've not even commented on.
Whilst I don't disagree with any of your overarching sentiments/points, I think you overestimate Rhinemettal somewhat.
They're just a middling player in the arms market and their ethical dubiousness is nothing compared to some of the larger MIC conglamorates.
Germany has come quite a long way, but it had also built up a deficit over decades. So some progress doesn't mean it's enough progress. Neither does a one-off commitment prompted by the shock of the Russian invasion equal sufficient continuous support.
The fact that Rheinmetall is willing to commit €20m to this sponsorship suggests that they both feel the need to present themselves to the public and expect some positive effect from it. Whether it's actually necessary or going to be effective is not something I can assess.
Well that's my point: focusing on Rheinmetall, when it's the government that makes decisions about exports.
At this point, it is not just a one off. It is a gradually escalating chain of events and decisions over the past 3 years. You can argue that this may change after this war is over. Who knows, maybe it will. As I said though, I'm struggling to think of a single time I've ever seen a sponsor on a rivals shirt and felt more positively about that company. Can you?
How is that the point? We're in a thread about the decision of Dortmund to sign a sponsorship deal with an arms manufacturer. It's not surprising therefore that the focus will be on Dortmund and the company. If you want to talk about the German foreign policy as a whole and focus on that, we can do that in the CE forum.
The government makes the final decisions, the company manufactures the arms.
Strange argument, when Rheinmetall is intentionally setting up subsidiaries e.g. in the Emirates to circumvent government decisions.
What's wrong with Germany?
This is lacking context:
Translated from here: https://www.sport1.de/news/fussball...ulian-nagelsmann-ist-fassungslos-ein-wahnsinn
The documentary (for German speakers) can be found here.
The reporter who these racist bastards said this to the face: https://philipp-awounou.de/about
Personally, unlike Nagelsmann and Kimmich, who took to critisize the ARD for asking the question, I think that they are doing an important job shining a light yet again on the way too large amount of racists amongst the populace. I'd rather they drag it out for everyone to see, slap it into everyone's face again and again and again. The worst thing we can do is to ignore them and just pretend everything's fine. It isn't. The fascists and racists exist, they are way too numerous, and with the AFD they have a party that way too many people vote for.
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Mate, whatever helps you sleep at night.
I think he's not doing it on purpose, he's just a bit clumsy with the press
Sabrina Wittmann will lead third division side Ingolstadt into the new season.....she took over as interim in May for four matches.....now the first female head coach in the men’s pro game in Germany
League
1x win (6-1) and 2x draws
Cup in Bavaria
First trophy for Ingolstadt
She is a coach since 19 years (she is 32).....last season she has coached the U19's boys team of Ingolstadt and they finished the season on the second place in the south division.....amazing achievement (Bayern Munich, Stuttgart or Frankfurt were all behind Ingolstadt).
League
1x win (6-1) and 2x draws
Cup in Bavaria
First trophy for Ingolstadt
She is a coach since 19 years (she is 32).....last season she has coached the U19's boys team of Ingolstadt and they finished the season on the second place in the south division.....amazing achievement (Bayern Munich, Stuttgart or Frankfurt were all behind Ingolstadt).
I haven‘t watched a lot of Buli last season. Bayern seems to be signing Ito from Stuttgart. He any good? I mean, Bayern do need a left footed CB.
Terzic leaves Dortmund
Incoming announcement of Hummels renewing for 2 years in 3, 2, 1…..
That's a surprise. Especially that apparently Terzic himself asked for it.
A lot of people don't seem to like Hummels, why is that and what has he said to wind people up so much, is it why he isn't in the Germany squad?
Who’s gonna be Dortmund’s new manager though? Who’s the bookies’ favourite?
Hummels complained in an interview shortly before the CL final about Dortmund's style of play, essentially he attacked Terzic, calling it a disgrace how Dortmund approached some matches. So there was an obvious clash between the two and some media claim that Hummels would only be willing to sign a new contract of Terzic leaves, that's the context here.
Him not being part of Germany's squad might be for similar reasons, he might not take it well if things don't go his way and he clearly wouldn't be in a position to make demands, so that could create problems. Similar issue with Goretzka.
Didn't check with the bookies but when Nuri Sahin arrived as new assistant in the winter he was viewed as the crown prince and always made clear that working as assistant instead of being the manager himself is an exception for him, not how he sees his future career. So I think he is a reasonable guess.
Absolutely!
And to add to this: this is why Müller made the squad and Hummels und Goretzka didn't. Müller is fine with being a mentor to the young players and kind of an assistant to Nagelsmann and playing 20 minutes every odd game. Hummels and Goretzka would sulk if they are on the bench.
Naturally
Goodness…. There is so much that I‘d like to say but won’t. Anyways, two scum fanbases that deserve each other.
Are Hansa fans Nazis too?
Yes. Obviously not 100% of them but the Ultras have some „interesting“ choreos.
Xavi Simmons looks special. But how does he coexist with Musiala and Olise
Musiala on the left wing like Ribery, Xavi central as a 10 and Olise on the right wing.
Latest information I read of is that he intends to stay in Leipzig...
Has anyone ever seen an exodus on the scale of Stuttgart's summer sale? Ito, Anton, Guirassy, Undav and likely Führich:
On Transfermarkt that's 5 of their 6 most valuable players and they are "only" going to get about €90m for them and that's before we consider agents or former clubs maybe taking a cut.
I mean the window hasn't even opened, who knows what's hidden in Stiller's or Mittelstädt's contracts?
I feel a bit sorry for Hoeneß, they will probably sign a wide variety of young / "good value" players as replacements and then they will all have to make their first steps in Europe in the CL. Sure, people won't expect another 2nd place, but unless you pull off another miracle you're always fighting an uphill battle as the coach, because on some level he will always be compared to last season's success and football.
On Transfermarkt that's 5 of their 6 most valuable players and they are "only" going to get about €90m for them and that's before we consider agents or former clubs maybe taking a cut.
I mean the window hasn't even opened, who knows what's hidden in Stiller's or Mittelstädt's contracts?
I feel a bit sorry for Hoeneß, they will probably sign a wide variety of young / "good value" players as replacements and then they will all have to make their first steps in Europe in the CL. Sure, people won't expect another 2nd place, but unless you pull off another miracle you're always fighting an uphill battle as the coach, because on some level he will always be compared to last season's success and football.
It's definitely a hard blow for Stuttgart but it's also notable that none of those players would have been considered a huge loss a year ago either. They probably would have gladly taken the €90m for the five of them at that point in time. So if they upped their level this much under Hoeneß, there's reason to hope other players will experience a similar improvement when joining the club. And that aside, it remains to be seen if they can maintain the level they showed last season, though I'dbe optimistic in that regard.
Stuttgart is pretty good at unearthing underrated players, a bit similar to Brighton.
Stuttgart is pretty good at unearthing underrated players, a bit similar to Brighton.
Stuttgart are known as a club to develop players now, they won't get the same kind of deals they got before. The more successful you are the more expensive it becomes to just hold that level. Being a bit shit for a while also gave plenty players the opportunity to grow at their own pace.
On the other hand they now proved that they can develop players and they can offer CL experience. Could unluck access to talents (maybe on loan) a level above what was previously possible. We will see how it unfolds this summer.
Sure, but then the conversation starts at €10m and some sell-on clause, instead of say a 2 year loan with a €3m buy option, like in Mavropanos' case. I think they can be optimistic mid to long term (unless their leadership struggles drag them down), but they won't be able to just do the same with more money, it'll be a new challenge with less room for errors.
I'm not so sure about that. I think there are lots of players like Mittelstädt or Stiller out there who never got to prove themselves in a proactive possession oriented system and are vastly underrated because they lack the athleticism to shine in less sophisticated squads. Stuttgart might have found a niche for themselves there. Their ingoing transfers for the upcoming season already look like pretty good value for money, too. Chabot, Roualt, Stergiou, Hendricks, Woltemade, Keitel, Diehl, Rieder and Leweling for a combines €15m is pretty decent.
Kane
Davies - Musiala - Xavi - Olise
Pavlovic - Palhinha
Ito - Kim/Upa - Stanisic
Neuer
Is that a thing? Ignoring Gnabry, Sané, Coman, Kimmich, Goretzka, de Ligt, Boey etc.
Davies - Musiala - Xavi - Olise
Pavlovic - Palhinha
Ito - Kim/Upa - Stanisic
Neuer
Is that a thing? Ignoring Gnabry, Sané, Coman, Kimmich, Goretzka, de Ligt, Boey etc.
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