German Football 23/24 |

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I understand MU fans ambivalence with Rashford though, Sane is just as insufferable when his purple patch is over.
:mad:
 
kaiser1 said:
Which of them has the grit engine and hardwork of Xhaka

what will be a starting 11 with all of them in the team
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All of them in terms of covered distances I guess. Xhaka isn't the player he was for Gladbach anymore, he barely tackles at all. The physicality is provided by the defenders behind them as three at the back allows the CBs to defend aggresively on the front foot. Rüdiger and Hummels/Schlotterbeck love this. They are very similar to Kossounou and Tapsoba respectively. Kimmich as a RWB would play in the mirrored Grimaldo role. Wirtz and Musiala behind Undav or Füllkrug. Basically the same formation Stuttgart and Leverkusen are playing.
 
Nagelsmann is an idiot to recall Kroos. It's not like he had any significant impact since 2014. A midfield of Gündogan (33) and Kroos (34) doesn't have any athleticism and missing energy required in a tournament, which is even more demanding than a world cup

Nagelsmann will also have adapt tactics to suit Kroos. Not sure if enough time left.

I also can't see a positive effect within the team as one player going to loose his place.
 
Zehner said:
Don't really get why Gündogan/Kross shouldn't work out when Xhaka/Palacios does in a 3-4-3. For me it is more about how well you can drill the system in in such a short amount of time. The 4-2-3-1 would be the more pragmatic and less ambitious choice but it could also make sense.

One way or another, Wirtz has to start. He does everything Musiala does better than him so I struggle to see any reasoning to have him in the starting eleven ahead of Wirtz. But it really shouldn't be one or the other.

But why would he not work with Gündogan and Kroos? That would actually be ideal seeing how well he links up with Xhaka, Palacios, Andrich and Grimaldo. They are a match made in heaven.
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Like you said it's in a 3-4-3, so with extra protection at the back. If we want to go with that formation then it might work though I still have a lot of doubts of the running ability of both, Xhaka and Palacios are both very energetic footballers. I think Flick tried that sometimes, with Gnabry and Sane as strikers, with varying degrees of success, iirc it was mostly successful.

Wirtz definitely doesn't dribble as well as Musiala and therefore would not be suited to a wing position, which is where I would have Musiala in a 4-3-3 formation.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Like you said it's in a 3-4-3, so with extra protection at the back. If we want to go with that formation then it might work though I still have a lot of doubts of the running ability of both, Xhaka and Palacios are both very energetic footballers. I think Flick tried that sometimes, with Gnabry and Sane as strikers, with varying degrees of success, iirc it was mostly successful.

Wirtz definitely doesn't dribble as well as Musiala and therefore would not be suited to a wing position, which is where I would have Musiala in a 4-3-3 formation.
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If we go with a back 3
That means we use 2 Wing backs. making 5 outfield already by the time we play Musiala Wirtz Kroos and Gundogan team is already filled up with CM/AMs barely with any goal threat nor real DM
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Like you said it's in a 3-4-3, so with extra protection at the back. If we want to go with that formation then it might work though I still have a lot of doubts of the running ability of both, Xhaka and Palacios are both very energetic footballers. I think Flick tried that sometimes, with Gnabry and Sane as strikers, with varying degrees of success, iirc it was mostly successful.

Wirtz definitely doesn't dribble as well as Musiala and therefore would not be suited to a wing position, which is where I would have Musiala in a 4-3-3 formation.
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Wirtz is playing the left wing for us. His heatmap is basically mirroring Sane's. And he is every bit as good at dribbling as Musiala :) Technically as good but much more effective
 
These subs again... we need a goal and have zero creativity left behind three 9s.

KANE!
I graciously accept being made a fool of by Choupo.
 
Chupo looked offside there for the goal

Why did VAR not check
 


Just when you think they're about to separate themselves from the relegation ranks and stabilize they pull you back in.
 
Acrobat7 said:
„Wir müssen Eier auf den Tisch legen.“ :lol:
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It says a lot when things are so bad that putting your cards on the table doesn't cut it anymore.



How has Baumgart's debut been so far? I've only been watching for 5 minutes, but it looks like Hamburg aren't very sharp.

It's also a pity that Rostock and Lautern are in too bad shape to make things truly spicy for Schalke.
 
Zehner said:
Wirtz is playing the left wing for us. His heatmap is basically mirroring Sane's. And he is every bit as good at dribbling as Musiala :) Technically as good but much more effective
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I don't think you'll find anyone else who would say Wirtz is as good a dribbler as Musiala. Stats wise as well Musiala attempts many more dribbles, per 90 but also more when compare it to the number of touches both players have (Wirtz has a lot more touches but Musiala still attempts more dribbles). Both have a similar dribble success percentage but Musiala attempts more difficult dribbles, both have a higher success rate than Vinicius as well but again no one would say either are better dribblers than him.

With regards to the heatmap, Wirtz does have a heatmap that dominates the left side, but the tactics Leverkusen play is very different to what Germany would play in a 4-2-3-1. Leverkusen don't have a player that solely plays the CAM role and their width is provided soley by the wing backs, plus Wirtz still plays the role of the primary playmaker in attacking midfield. If he plays on the left for Germany, then there will a lack of width in attack since the full backs cannot go foward with as much free will as Frimpong and Grimaldo do. Germany need a left winger who can attack the full backs on the outside and Wirtz is not the player who can do that.

If you want to play a 3 at the back formation with wing backs, then definitely Wirtz and Musiala can fit together because then the width will be provided by the full backs.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
I don't think you'll find anyone else who would say Wirtz is as good a dribbler as Musiala. Stats wise as well Musiala attempts many more dribbles, per 90 but also more when compare it to the number of touches both players have (Wirtz has a lot more touches but Musiala still attempts more dribbles). Both have a similar dribble success percentage but Musiala attempts more difficult dribbles, both have a higher success rate than Vinicius as well but again no one would say either are better dribblers than him.

With regards to the heatmap, Wirtz does have a heatmap that dominates the left side, but the tactics Leverkusen play is very different to what Germany would play in a 4-2-3-1. Leverkusen don't have a player that solely plays the CAM role and their width is provided soley by the wing backs, plus Wirtz still plays the role of the primary playmaker in attacking midfield. If he plays on the left for Germany, then there will a lack of width in attack since the full backs cannot go foward with as much free will as Frimpong and Grimaldo do. Germany need a left winger who can attack the full backs on the outside and Wirtz is not the player who can do that.

If you want to play a 3 at the back formation with wing backs, then definitely Wirtz and Musiala can fit together because then the width will be provided by the full backs.
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You're probably right that most will see Musiala as a better dribbler but IMO that is primarily because Wirtz' passing ability is more in the focus. His dribbling abilities aren't really that present in match highlights, he has held himself back for Germany so far, etc. He dribbles a bit less this season in comparison to last where his dribbling statistics were significantly better (3.97 successful dribbles per 90 to 3,16) than Musiala's. Even this season, he is better in carries than him. I also disagree with the notion that Musiala tries more difficult dribbles - since his comeback, Wirtz has shown some absolutely insane solo runs that remind me very much of the famous "Messi vs. no space" videos - he seems to find ways to escape in seemingly hopeless situations and usually even in the direction of the opponent's goal. Those aren't the typical one on one situations in which somebody like Coman excells but it is IMO the most difficult way to dribble that you see very rarely at a high level. Some of those runs even lead to goals like his goal of the year against Freiburg or his solo goal against Monacco in last season's EL campaign. Musiala is probably a bit more "spectacular" due to his excessive use of croquetas but Wirtz is every bit as effective if not more.

In general, that aspect of Wirtz' game is very underrated. Many also think that Musiala is faster than him although Wirtz has actually clocked higher top speeds than Musiala. He's also regularly our widest player on the left, positioning himself almost at the byline while Grimaldo pushes into a CM position. So he coud definitely do a great job at LW in a 4-2-3-1 even though it would not be ideal.
 
Dortmund are a bit shite. The worst BVB I've seen in a long time.
 
Just thinking...Klopp announces he is leaving Liverpool at the end of the season, then Tuchel announces he is leaving Bayern at the end of the season = Klopp will be the new Bayern manager, so, wouldn't be funny if he knocks Liverpool out of the ECL next season. :D
 
UTD_Since_1978 said:
Just thinking...Klopp announces he is leaving Liverpool at the end of the season, then Tuchel announces he is leaving Bayern at the end of the season = Klopp will be the new Bayern manager, so, wouldn't be funny if he knocks Liverpool out of the ECL next season. :D
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Klopp's quitting the spot due to being burned out and has his consultant declare publicly that he wouldn't manage a club for at least a year afterwards, and you think his next move would be moving to Bayern where the pressure would be even higher, a club that Klopp has expressed his dislike for repeatedly?
I'd give it higher odds that Bayern would hire Loddar.
 
The lineup looked okay to me (considering Sané is out), but it's been pretty dire once more.
 
So annoying when Sky don’t show the game on their TV channels just the app. Instead we have Gary Neville’s soccer box repeated for the billionth time
 
Second brilliant individual moment there for us from Musiala. What's that United thing? Moments FC, yep here we are as well.
 
I was just complaining about him dribbling too much on a bayernforum, so I'll take partial credit for that goal.
 
WTF was that? Kindergarten defending, from a simple throw in. Freiburg was dead and buried.
 
Bayern only have themselves to blame. Half-sacking their manager was essentially them accepting they weren't challenging for the title.
 
Tuchel's Tottenhamification of Bayern is almost as impressive as what Poch managed at PSG.
 
GlasgowCeltic said:
Poor subs from Tuchel
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Amazed he took Musiala off so soon after the goal unless he was being saved for Lazio?

Bayern just defended after going 1-2 up and barely had an attack, Pavlovic pretty poor in and out of possession.
 
I blame those horrible black/purple/vomit uniforms. Tuchel cannot coach his teams out from that.
 
FootballHQ said:
Amazed he took Musiala off so soon after the goal unless he was being saved for Lazio?

Bayern just defended after going 1-2 up and barely had an attack, Pavlovic pretty poor in and out of possession.
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Probably thought "job done" and focusing on Lazio. Which probably is justified to prevent the next disaster.
 
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