It's shocking and infuriating but we should somehow try to use this new found compassion for self determination and the disenfranchised and bring all the other struggles under the same umbrella. The reaction to Ukraine is not wrong, just frustratingly selective.
Geopolitics
- Thread starter Mciahel Goodman
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It's shocking and infuriating but we should somehow try to use this new found compassion for self determination and the disenfranchised and bring all the other struggles under the same umbrella. The reaction to Ukraine is not wrong, just frustratingly selective.
I think its a broader point, didn't Celtic get fined for Palestine flags?
Apparently so. I don't see a problem with flags as long as there's wide spread unanimity within the crowd to fly them. Otherwise, it may be viewed as provocative and cause violence (say for instance, if a few people decided to fly Russian flags at a Man City game the weekend after the invasion began). In those instances, its in the best interest of public safety to avoid overt acts of provocation.
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We had a fairly provocative flag culture in the North of Ireland, so my default is a no to flags when it's triumphalism or imperialism or even most cases of nationalism, but I see them as valid if there is a lack of voice or representation.
Yep absolutely this.
Well said
The majority of the public opinion in the West is actually pro Palestine and because their is freedom of speech here the media tend to paint a far more objective picture of what’s going on in the Middle East even if the powers to be tend to be pro Israel. Still, all this has nothing to do with the atrocious actions of Russia with respect to the Ukraine.
Another "whataboutery"; in response to being brought up, the subsequent moralization of actions taken during the Cold War, and War on Terrorism by the United States. "Bad actions but understandable/came from a good place" drivel, and so on...
Turkey’s apparent attempt to revert to the guiding principles of its foreign policy of the 2000s seems quite noteworthy:
Whether driven by economic woes, Russian aggression, recent changes in regional leadership, or whatever, hopefully it may facilitate progress on the Kurdish question.
Whether driven by economic woes, Russian aggression, recent changes in regional leadership, or whatever, hopefully it may facilitate progress on the Kurdish question.
Interesting developments. Though the Kurdish question...that's a tough one.
again the West is not selective in their public opinion, which on the whole is far more sympathetic toward Palestine than it is towards Israel. Just as the public opinion in the West was against the invasion of Iraq (as for example a certain Tony B-Liar found out to his cost)
While I agree there is a disconnect between the people and governments on Palestine, I'm not sure what cost Blair actually paid?
Very blinded if you can't see how selective our media is at reporting on these matters. You're at best confusing social media sentiment which is limited to a minority who are politically engaged in world affairs to actual media reporting that filters through to the masses.
A few years back the Council in Dublin flew a Palestine flag over the GPO on our main street for a year in solidarity, and I know lots of people who weren't aware. So yes, while there is a, pro Palestine sentiment about, it's not represented by the media or national government.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/14/sport/algeria-judo-nourine-olympics-palestine-spt-intl/index.html
Compare this to the reaction of sporting institutions now when we ask to avoid Russian athletes.
whilst I think more attention could be paid by Western media outlets to the plight of the Palestine and other war torn and suppressed regions & countries, it is unfair to say that the media in the West does not try to report on such matters with a certain reasonable amount of objectivity. But the argument wasn’t how the media is reporting but about how the public opinion, which contrary to what is being claimed in here is actually on the whole pro Palestinian. All of which does not excuse what is happening in the Ukraine.
I'd still take issue because of the attitudes we have to the victims of the two crises, and definitely about the violences carried out by these 'victims' .
Sounds like an average night out in Friedrichshain.
so you personally pay as much attention and provide support in equal measures to all the oppressed people in the World no matter where they’re from???
…Oh hang on, you are Moses after all, forgot about that and I apologize to you.
I wonder how many on here spend as much attention on the plight of the ethnically cleansed in Bhutan as they do with Palestine… no thought not.
What is the point being made?
the point being made that everybody everywhere is selective, including the posters in this thread accusing others of being selective.
Who's ethnically cleansed in Bhutan? Are you talking about the Tibetan refugees from the 60s and 70s?
Who accused others of being selective? I believe that the point mainly made was that we are not in a situation where one side is consistently humanist while the other is consistently evil which is how things have been framed initially. For example the current NATO leaders are not only ignoring but also supporting Saudi Arabia and the UAE in what is nothing else than war crimes.
On a personal level, I make that point for the simple reason that I have no issue with admitting that I'm biased, I have a side which is the side of NATO and Ukraine but I won't call it the righteous or good side. It's just my side.
Majority of the public is probably apathetic towards the Palestine cause. I suspect it's different in Ireland due to parallels and empathy.
But yes, the selective coverage has been disgraceful. Here children in local schools having to wear yellow and blue and bring money in for collection to show solidarity. What's happened to Ukraine has been disgusting - another super power strutting their stuff.
But yes, the selective coverage has been disgraceful. Here children in local schools having to wear yellow and blue and bring money in for collection to show solidarity. What's happened to Ukraine has been disgusting - another super power strutting their stuff.
But yes, pretty much, I'm anti imperialist lefty from a post colonial country so it's close to me.
I read somewhere the other day that fear is stronger than empathy and that might explain the reaction to Ukraine.
I don't know if I'm more empathic or just principled or some crazy ideologue. I don't know but I have a more consistent level of interest and awareness and empathy than the media and therefore a lot of people I know.
I am sure that without a doubt I have a much more consistent attitude to citizens arming themselves against invasion oppression and imperialism. I have principles that apply, and whether they are wrong or right, they are consistent.
As you can imagine, I get invited to fewer and fewer dinner parties.
There’s a lot of terrible things going on in the World, most of which the general public has no idea it’s happening…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth... migration,to ethnic and political oppression.
But yes, pretty much, I'm anti imperialist lefty from a post colonial country so it's close to me.
I read somewhere the other day that fear is stronger than empathy and that might explain the reaction to Ukraine.
I don't know if I'm more empathic or just principled or some crazy ideologue. I don't know but I have a more consistent level of interest and awareness and empathy than the media and therefore a lot of people I know.
I am sure that without a doubt I have a much more consistent attitude to citizens arming themselves against invasion oppression and imperialism. I have principles that apply, and whether they are wrong or right, they are consistent.
As you can imagine, I get invited to fewer and fewer dinner parties.
You're one of those lone wolf characters, Mo. Wolves are pack animals, though. I don't get it.
Wow. Seems analogous with the rohingya situation in rakhine province. TiL
Seems a bit excessive. On the other hand, if he broke a specific rule of the International Judo Federation (which the article implies he did) then he would obviously be at risk for getting sanctioned for it.
Yeah but suddenly the tedious wolves don't get the invite to the pack trips to the pub.
Ah to be honest, the pack annoy me, I only like people in theory.
100% and people can't be blamed for not knowing about most. Its no fun trawling the news for the newest awful shit we are doing to each other.
Yeah but suddenly the tedious wolves don't get the invite to the pack trips to the pub.
Ah to be honest, the pack annoy me, I only like people in theory.
I love people but I also love my space. I'm not pack animal either.
Come visit, i have space, and a new puppy.
I actually stayed quite close to Tallaght last year(friends..). Your countryside is lush, now this sounds daft it's a darker green than ours. Looks great even in the mist.
I think it comes down again having a free spirit, Mo.