General Election 2024

Who got your vote?

  • Labour

    Votes: 147 54.2%
  • Conservative

    Votes: 5 1.8%
  • Lib Dem

    Votes: 25 9.2%
  • Green

    Votes: 48 17.7%
  • Reform

    Votes: 11 4.1%
  • SNP

    Votes: 5 1.8%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Independent

    Votes: 8 3.0%
  • UK resident but not voting

    Votes: 18 6.6%
  • Spoiled my ballot

    Votes: 3 1.1%

  • Total voters
    271
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yeah, I've read many times over the years that the army doesn't want national service, they are keen to be seen as proud professionals. I dare say the likes of the Telegraph will be able to find some ancient Colonel Blimp somewhere to say what they want to hear, but the army as a whole is against. National service will be expensive, and if that money is to be spent on the army it would be better spent on the likes of more Territorials, enthusiastic people who want to be there and who will fight effectively if required. It is the bleeding army after all. I would be for that personally.

Depends what you mean by "national service" in this context.

Does the military want random people joining the service every year to eventually fight? Hell no.

Would the military mind free labour to do some menial tasks? Yeah.
 
Depends what you mean by "national service" in this context.

Does the military want random people joining the service every year to eventually fight? Hell no.

Would the military mind free labour to do some menial tasks? Yeah.
I think we're agreed over the fighting aspect. As for people doing menial tasks for free, yeah I could do with some of those myself, I've loads of jobs need doing, but if the Tories think that forcing 18 year-olds in to doing free menial tasks is a selling point for their government they must be stark staring mad. No wonder they don't want votes at 16.
 
The average day of a soldier not on deployment consists of marching, exercising, weapons cleaning, a few hours of advanced weapons training for specialists, more exercising, more cleaning. Then after 5-6pm if you're in the UK, you can piss around for a few hours before going to bed. That usually involves...well have a few drinks, chat, some psycho's do even more exercise, and then everyone's in bed by about 10pm max.

Put an 18 year old into this routine for a period of time, I don't see any significant cost of resources or harm to them. Might lower the obesity rate as well.

As for roles that a non-trained soldier can do, there are lots. If you have a HGV license (or the conscript is willing to take a course that gets you one) and the military equivalent, you can ferry supplies back and forth. If you speak a second language, you can provide second opinions on certain transcriptions and texts, if you have exceptional fitness you can be the lead pacemaker for certain long marches or runs. There's a lot of stuff they can do.

I hope to god the proposal isn't to actually send any of these people to combat regions or deployments though, that would be utterly insane.

But i'm against conscription/national service as a whole anyway. Statistically proven conscripts do not fight well.
Fair enough, luckily for me the mandatory service in portugal ended a couple of years before I became of age, so I know next to nothing about daily life in the military.
 
I think we're agreed over the fighting aspect. As for people doing menial tasks for free, yeah I could do with some of those myself, I've loads of jobs need doing, but if the Tories think that forcing 18 year-olds in to doing free menial tasks is a selling point for their government they must be stark staring mad. No wonder they don't want votes at 16.

Appealing to the LARPY boomers
 
I have friends teaching in Scandi countries, Norway, Denmark and Finland. They have much more flexible curriculums and they don't have the disruptive kids and management that we do.

I fully believe the 'more flexible curriculums' part, but I can assure you we've got our own issues with disruptive kids. It's been a national debate for the last few years in Norway.
 
I fully believe the 'more flexible curriculums' part, but I can assure you we've got our own issues with disruptive kids. It's been a national debate for the last few years in Norway.

can you not just bring back the gulags or whatever it was you people used to do.
 
Advisor:

Sir, the country is at breaking point! The NHS is at the point of collapse with 1/3 of staff having mental health conditions, schools are at the point where buildings could literally fall down. The police are being told to arrest fewer people because our prisons are too full. The CPS is at its least effective in history, with hundreds of thousands of cases awaiting trial dates. Our Home Office is losing thousands of asylum seekers and taking years to process claims. Add to this that inflation has meant that households with two full-time wages are barely able to subsist without skipping meals or going cold.

We need a shot in the arm to bring this era of decline to an end.

Sunak: By Jove I’ve got it!!! Let’s bring back National Service! Except it doesn’t have to be in any form of the military, it may or may not be mandatory and you absolutely definitely can’t might will perhaps face prosecution if you refuse to do it!

*Advisor quits
 
It won’t work though. It’s basically just PFI from the Mayor/Blair years.
The only thing I can think of - in terms of financial viability - is that they buy the assets back after 20 years or so. You can see the appeal politically, as creating the money via increasing the national debt would make them open season for the tories and fly in the face of the ‘fiscal responsibility’ laid out by Labour. PFI will obviously be more expensive though and those investors will be looking for 20% returns.

I’m not sure how I feel about it. I read a book on private equity by Brett Christophers, which was grim reading; however, should we consider that this is perhaps the only viable way of raising huge sums of money for public infrastructure in our fecked up post-2008 world? If it goes ahead the public should be given full scrutiny of the contracts agreed,
 

Look if it wasn’t for the Tories there wouldn’t be the number of food banks there are today, they’re the reason the demand is so high so you can’t blame these people for their loyalty.
 
Sunak found himself under fire early on Monday, as Steve Baker, a Northern Ireland minister, said introducing mandatory national service was a policy dreamed up by advisers and sprung on candidates.

It later emerged that Baker, who is defending the Labour target of Wycombe, had chosen to go on holiday to Greece rather than stay on the campaign trail – after Sunak previously told MPs they should go ahead and book time off.

The prime minister was then hit with the defection of Lucy Allan, the Conservative MP for Telford, who said she would support the local candidate for Reform. The party suspended the whip, but she hit back saying she had quit first and that the Conservatives had no chance in her seat, according to the Shropshire Star.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rty-on-chaotic-fifth-day-of-election-campaign

This is some read.
 
They hate the young.


It’s amazing how they manage to make me hate them more with each passing day: Every time I think it’s not possible they find a way, it’s actually impressive.
 
If it's ideal then that is what we should be working towards surely? If privately educated kids have to suffer the same education as the rest of the kids in society in order for all kids to end up with a better education then so be it. It will be huge benefit for the future of the country.

It would be the ideal but how do you get from here to there without destroying the education of a couple of generations worth of kids? There are not the classrooms, facilities or teachers to put everybody into the state system. It would take years for the system to adjust to cope with it.

The way to achieve it with minimal impact is to bring the state sector up closer to the level of the private schools. Improve it for everybody and make private schools redundant. Trying to push private schools out before the state is up to standard just drags everybody down.


Not at all. The difference is many decades of the Tories trying to destroy public education. And then using their destruction to justify further destruction and social division.

Private education is primarily paying for networking with other priveledged kids (and jobs from mates' parents). Educationally they are ordinary and often need special lobbying departments in schools (special consideration for exams etc), combined with actively pushing the dim kids out before they feck up your school's results to look ordinary or a bit better.

The various Scandanavian public school systems succeed because they value and fund public education.

You said it there yourself, the problems of the state sector are the fault of successive governments. Nothing to do with the private schools.

You sound like you havent been near a private school for about 40 years. Those days of old boys networks are long gone outside of a handful of places like Eton and Marlborough.
 
Indeed. I know you don't agree with globalisation but in practice we have to compete with highly educated and motivated workforces all over the world, and if our best education and opportunities are restricted to a relatively small section of the population we will be hugely handicapped. Which is of course what that small section of the population wants, to be on top of the pile however shitty a pile it may be. It is up to the rest of us to vote accordingly.

We're singing from the same hymn sheet on this. Completely agree.
 
It would be the ideal but how do you get from here to there without destroying the education of a couple of generations worth of kids? There are not the classrooms, facilities or teachers to put everybody into the state system. It would take years for the system to adjust to cope with it.

The way to achieve it with minimal impact is to bring the state sector up closer to the level of the private schools. Improve it for everybody and make private schools redundant. Trying to push private schools out before the state is up to standard just drags everybody down.

This is complete nonsense. How on earth would taxing private school fees destroy the education of multiple generations?

The worst-case scenario is privately educated kids have to go to a state school like everyone else. That might mean a 5%(?) or so increase in class sizes, but you also have a load of teachers and facilities newly available to exploit to offset that increase of pupils.
 
It would be the ideal but how do you get from here to there without destroying the education of a couple of generations worth of kids? There are not the classrooms, facilities or teachers to put everybody into the state system. It would take years for the system to adjust to cope with it.

The way to achieve it with minimal impact is to bring the state sector up closer to the level of the private schools. Improve it for everybody and make private schools redundant. Trying to push private schools out before the state is up to standard just drags everybody down.

That would never happen anyway so no need to worry about it. Reduce public funding to zero over a long period, say the life of a parliament. Increase public school funding AND give the hundreds of millions saved to them on top. Many private schools will continue either with higher (economic) fees or just have fewer Olympic sized swimming pools. Those that don't have the option of closing down or moving to the public sector if they want to. And there won't be fewer teachers, just the same teaching in a different mix of systems. Salaries should also be significantly increased to retain and recruit. Cutting funding to private schools and lifting public schools goes hand in hand.

You said it there yourself, the problems of the state sector are the fault of successive governments. Nothing to do with the private schools.

And one of the reasons successive government have done so badly at it is because they have gutted funding for public education and channeled it to private schools. Slash funding to public services, make then shit (or shittier), privatise as a "solution", get everyone to pay for this shit feckery through their taxes, and then say we can't change back because the public system is getting worse and worse. Tory 101.

You sound like you havent been near a private school for about 40 years. Those days of old boys networks are long gone outside of a handful of places like Eton and Marlborough.

Apart from teaching science in one for a couple of years quite recently I haven't. And old boys' networks are alive and thriving. My old school still has one despite the paedo sex scandals.
 
That would never happen anyway so no need to worry about it. Reduce public funding to zero over a long period, say the life of a parliament. Increase public school funding AND give the hundreds of millions saved to them on top. Many private schools will continue either with higher (economic) fees or just have fewer Olympic sized swimming pools. Those that don't have the option of closing down or moving to the public sector if they want to. And there won't be fewer teachers, just the same teaching in a different mix of systems. Salaries should also be significantly increased to retain and recruit. Cutting funding to private schools and lifting public schools goes hand in hand.



And one of the reasons successive government have done so badly at it is because they have gutted funding for public education and channeled it to private schools. Slash funding to public services, make then shit (or shittier), privatise as a "solution", get everyone to pay for this shit feckery through their taxes, and then say we can't change back because the public system is getting worse and worse. Tory 101.



Apart from teaching science in one for a couple of years quite recently I haven't. And old boys' networks are alive and thriving. My old school still has one despite the paedo sex scandals.

Can you explain to me some of the public funding that private schools receive? I've known of some schemes which are designed to "rent teachers" to state schools in which the school is recompensed for the teachers not being available for X time per week, but outside of these things, I didn't know schools received public funding.
 
Can you explain to me some of the public funding that private schools receive? I've known of some schemes which are designed to "rent teachers" to state schools in which the school is recompensed for the teachers not being available for X time per week, but outside of these things, I didn't know schools received public funding.
A lot of private schools have charitable status, that is a form of indirect funding because ultimately private schools are businesses, ones that are classed as charities to avoid paying taxes
 
A lot of private schools have charitable status, that is a form of indirect funding because ultimately private schools are businesses, ones that are classed as charities to avoid paying taxes

Are they businesses though? What's the difference between a private school and an NGO in this regard?

A registered charity is not allowed to make profit, is not allowed to draw dividends and is much more strictly regulated than for-profit organizations.

If a school does make profit, it has to either sit in a bank account (they are not allowed to be invested into other vehicles) or it has to be put back into the school itself.

I see no difference between this, and something like an NGO for example.
 
Can you explain to me some of the public funding that private schools receive? I've known of some schemes which are designed to "rent teachers" to state schools in which the school is recompensed for the teachers not being available for X time per week, but outside of these things, I didn't know schools received public funding.

Without looking very hard we know that funding includes,
  • 200 million annually on direct subsidies
  • 2.5 BILLION in tax breaks
  • 100 million plus per year to send diplomats' and military kids to top private schools.
  • Many will pay only 5% VAT on some things if either purportedly being for charitable purposes (letting the plebs use some facilities for free) and in many cases electricity/power.
  • Many many millions will also be funneled to them by various backdoor methods that the Tories will have made as hard to find out about as possible, and certainly not included in formal education funding figures.
 
Last edited:
A lot of private schools have charitable status, that is a form of indirect funding because ultimately private schools are businesses, ones that are classed as charities to avoid paying taxes

Which is bullshit of course. No way should schools (or churches) be allowed to be charities. If either of them want to do charitable work then set up a specific charity. They are all profit making businesses and should be taxed as such. Or maybe we should just nationalise them (schools, not churches)?

Maybe then instead of them spunking millions of the dosh they get from us giving them tax breaks on Olympic swimming pools or sporting stands etc, we should tax them and spend the tax dollars on public facilities e.g. public swimming pools?
 
Last edited:


I mean a 3 minute google gives a full breakdown of when she worked at Bank of England with specific roles there and departments she was in…

is this person actually meant to be a journalist for the evening standard?
 
I mean a 3 minute google gives a full breakdown of when she worked at Bank of England with specific roles there and departments she was in…

is this person actually meant to be a journalist for the evening standard?
The cronyism at the Evening Standard, SamCam's sister taking over as editor from Osborne when he moved upstairs, is something else.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.