General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

[Smores]

Corbyn's pitch in TV just now was that he would reverse austerity and invest so he can 'provide for all those living in poverty'.

Basically tax high earners even more, so 'the poor' (whoever they are) can get even more. Im not funding yet another labour spending spree.

Actually its on right now and he doesnt mention providing for the poor he talks about reducing inequality through investment which is not the same thing. He talks about an economy that works for all.

Where do you think money invested goes? It gets spent, taxed, spent, taxed.

 

[rcoobc]

But its true isn't it?

I work very very hard and pay very high taxes despite never using state services like education, health etc. I was fine with that.

But the Leave vote, which was propped up by people unlike me has pissed me off to the edge. I want to remain in Europe and I want Britain to be international.

Labours policy seems to be that we should leave Europe and people like me pay even more to prop up those who caused us to leave in the first place.

Education: If you ever have children, you will use it.

Health: If you are ever sick, you'll probably use it (maybe you have health insurance, but that will be a lot cheaper than in the US thanks to the NHS).

State Pension: You'll still get a state pension aged of £6k a year aged xx

How much tax do you really pay? Assuming you earn £70k, then.....

National Insurance: You likely paid 12% National Insurance on most of your earnings below £42k, but now only pay 2% contributions on the rest.... Whereas the rest of us just pay 12%. Your employer pays the full 13.5% on all your earnings above the lower limit, but let's ignore that for now.

Income Tax: Like the rest of us, you pay nothing on the first £11.5k, 20% on the next £20k (up to £32k), and 40% after that. Okay, you are paying 40% income tax on every additional penny earned, whereas the rest of us only pay 20%... but we are also paying 12.5% national insurance contributions, whereas you only pay 2%....

So...

Every additional penny earned you pay:

40% income tax + 2% National Insurance = 42%

And we pay:

20% income tax + 12.5% National Insurance = 32.5%

Not so different after all.

But, it get's closer.

Let's say you put £10k-£20k a year into your SIPP. There is a very good chance that you won't pay a penny of tax on that when you go to take it out (and if you do, it will be at 20%). On any contributions, you get 40% of the 42% back... If we did the same, we would only get 20% of the 32.5% back...

Do you really pay too much tax?

Is there any evidence for this ? Pretty sure there isn't.

Have a look at the Brexit - the videos threat I created. It definitely happens. In fact, it even happens in the industry I am in.

The living wage was just a rebranding on the minimum wage, which would have coincindetally risen to the same level at the same time.

Not really! I think you should check those figures again my friend!

 

[Kag]

To be fair, the Tories:

- Raised the Personal Allowance to £11.5k (a Lib Dem policy) taking millions of poor and working class people out of the first income tax rate altogether.
- Introduced the National Living Wage, now at £7.50 per hour, and will likely rise to nearly £10 by 2020. (Two Labour Policies)
- Re-introduced vocational qualifications after Labour (the party of the working class) decided that working class jobs shouldn't be taught in school.
- Have said they are scrapping Tenancy fees. (A labour policy)
- Are building lots of houses (although still slower than the rate of building in the 60's to 80's)
- Gave everyone the opportunity to vote for Brexit.

If you are a low-earning working class voter, who has seen Eastern Europeans come in and do the same job you do for less, why would you vote Labour?

I don't know how true the latter remark really is, to be fair. As for the stolen progressive policies, I like them. But we need more. A lot more.

 

[Minimalist]

Corbyn's pitch in TV just now was that he would reverse austerity and invest so he can 'provide for all those living in poverty'.

Basically tax high earners even more, so 'the poor' (whoever they are) can get even more. Im not funding yet another labour spending spree.

So do we presume you've been quite content with the Tory gutting of public services since 2010?

 

[sammsky1]

What a ridiculous comparison.

People in this country are poor and struggle to pay their bills and feed their children. They struggle to clothe their children to attend their school. Just because you don't know anybody like this (because you obviously work really, really hard) doesn't mean to say these issues don't exist.

Well then they should work harder like everybody else.

I'm a 2nd generation immigrant. My parents arrived with nothing. ZILCH. LIKE ABSOLUTLY NOTHING And yet in one generation they and their 5 kids became educated, wealthy and all work in professional upper middle class jobs. Through hard work.

As a family, we've taken very little support from the state except opportunities. I'm thankful to the United Kingdom for changing my family's life experience with opportunity. The opportunity is there for everyone if you work hard.

Why cant other do this?? Why should I prop them up, esp when they fecked us all by voting to leave the EU?

 

[MoBeats]

But its true isn't it?

I work very very hard and pay very high taxes despite never using state services like education, health etc. I was fine with that.

But the Leave vote, which was propped up by people unlike me has pissed me off to the edge. I want to remain in Europe and I want Britain to be international.

Labours policy seems to be that we should leave Europe and people like me pay even more to prop up those who caused us to leave in the first place.

If you already pay high tax then they're not talking about you. They're talking about the cnuts who earn very well but pay virtually no tax, and companies that pay little tax too. The way things are at the moment are only going to go on to cause a bigger divide which will go on to cause bigger problems in the future. I dread to think what the UK will look like after another 4 years of Tories lining their own pockets.

 

[Abizzz]

Pfff. with French and German elections coming up this isn't about labour at all.

Brexiteers simply couldn't tolerate the fact the world's attention is now on Le Pen, they had to do something!

 

[Kentonio]

LibDems have got the begging bowl out already.

Sad truth is that money wins elections though.

 

[Acole9]

Well I didn't see this coming. I reckon Theresa May has called for an election because she wants out. To be honest I couldn't give a rats ass, they're all useless and full of lies and empty promises. I will vote though because there are some people had to fight for their right to vote.

 

[Minimalist]

Well then they should work harder like everybody else.

I'm a 2nd generation immigrant. My parents arrived with nothing. ZILCH. LIKE ABSOLUTLY NOTHING And yet in one generation they and their 5 kids became educated, wealthy and all work in professional upper middle class jobs. Through hard work.

As a family, we've taken very little support from the state except opportunities. I'm thankful to the United Kingdom for changing my family's life experience with opportunity. The opportunity is there for everyone if you work hard.

Why cant other do this?? Why should I prop them up, esp when they fecked us all by voting to leave the EU?

Oh FFS, you possibly be that lacking in awareness?

Yes generally speaking, working harder is going to benefit you but FFS life is not always that simple for a good lot of people in society. I despair when I read that shit, it's very common and you're not alone thinking it.

 

[sammsky1]

You want to remain in Europe and plan to vote for the Tories?

You want Britain to be international and plan to vote for the Tories whose vision of a 'truly global Britain' is to bash foreigners on almost every opportunity but lick Saudi Arabia's and other dictatorships' arses?

Okay.

I dont know who to vote for! Im stuck. Ive voted Labour all my life, but I cant vote for Corbyn if I apply my principles.

Rock and hard place for a lot of left centrists who wanted to remain in EU. Who else fits this profile and what are you going to do?

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Labours policy seems to be that we should leave Europe and people like me pay even more to prop up those who caused us to leave in the first place.

How are you going to blame poor people for Brexit? And then vote Tory?

 

[Kag]

the bit about hard working people getting screwed isnt

And in Ireland it is the same

Well, of course that's true. But whether you're hard working or not has little to do with your tax band.

 

[Dobba]

I don't think I understand your point.

That people who hate the less off were in Labour long before Corbyn was made leader and in pretty prominent positions too. Admittedly not as prominent as when Corbyn goes after this election and Muggy the Animatronic Immigration Mug becomes leader of the party, but still.

 

[sammsky1]

Oh FFS, you possibly be that lacking in awareness?

Yes generally speaking, working harder is going to benefit you but FFS life is not always that simple for a good lot of people in society. I despair when I read that shit, it's very common and you're not alone thinking it.

Why despair? Its very very possible. Explain to me why it isn't?

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Just an FYI for those who seem to go around this country with blinkers.

The average hospital porter works 'very very hard' for about £12K a year, a full time job knee deep in shit and piss and they couldn't afford a roof over their own heads in this sainted land without government help.

I vote labour, I also earn well, now that I am freelance, My tax level is about 36% after deductions and so on, that is not high. An extra 3% on my tax bill would not change my life, but it could make things better for an awful lot of people.

Oh, and I have worked hard in my life, I don't these days because I don't have to. Its not a badge of courage to kill yourself for work.

 

[Kag]

Well then they should work harder like everybody else.

I'm a 2nd generation immigrant. My parents arrived with nothing. ZILCH. LIKE ABSOLUTLY NOTHING And yet in one generation they and their 5 kids became educated, wealthy and all work in professional upper middle class jobs. Through hard work.

As a family, we've taken very little support from the state except opportunities. I'm thankful to the United Kingdom for changing my family's life experience with opportunity. The opportunity is there for everyone if you work hard.

Why cant other do this?? Why should I prop them up, esp when they fecked us all by voting to leave the EU?

You're a wanker.

 

[Summit]

To be fair, the Tories:

- Raised the Personal Allowance to £11.5k (a Lib Dem policy) taking millions of poor and working class people out of the first income tax rate altogether.

Whist changing National Insurance and ultimately making you worse off. Give with one hand and take with another.

But you are right on the point you made.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You want to remain in Europe and plan to vote for the Tories?

You want Britain to be international and plan to vote for the Tories whose vision of a 'truly global Britain' is to bash foreigners on almost every opportunity but lick Saudi Arabia's and other dictatorships' arses?

Okay.

Trouble is Corbyn is pro Brexit as well and too frightened to lose even more votes - this election will not affect Brexit at all - it's just a way for May to strengthen her position to last through to 2022 especially if by 2019 it's all going horribly wrong.
The only way a Remain vote can be sustained was if there was a whole new Pro-Remain party but this won't work in the UK

 

[Dobba]

You're a wanker.

this is probably one of the most refreshing things Ive ever read in the current events on the Caf

it wont make you popular though

 

[Fearless]

If you already pay high tax then they're not talking about you. They're talking about the cnuts who earn very well but pay virtually no tax, and companies that pay little tax too. The way things are at the moment are only going to go on to cause a bigger divide which will go on to cause bigger problems in the future. I dread to think what the UK will look like after another 4 years of Tories lining their own pockets.

You ever run a business?

 

[DOTA]

Why despair? Its very very possible. Explain to me why it isn't?

For a start, people with physical or mental disabilities, people suffering from mental illness, people who are full time carers... don't always have the option to just 'work harder' and succeed.

 

[Adisa]

LibDems have got the begging bowl out already.

Friend,

This is it. Theresa May has called a snap General Election.

This is our chance to change the direction of our country. Donate now and help do that:

Donate now

We need to hit the ground running. We’ve had an incredible momentum over the last 12 months – we’re the fastest growing party in British Politics, we’ve been pulling off stunning result after stunning result in by-elections across the UK – but this is the real test.

And we’ve got to hit the ground running and if we’re going to change the direction of our country, then we need your help. Please, donate £25 or whatever you can afford today:

Donate £25 now

With your help Friend we’re going to throw everything we have at this election; we’re going to be unashamedly liberal and we’re going to stand up for our values. We’re going to elect more Liberal Democrat MPs – and we’re going to change the direction of our country.

That’s our goal. And we don’t have any time to waste so please, Friend, donate today and help get our campaign off to a flying start.

Donate now

Thank you,
Tim

Tim Farron MP
Leader of the Liberal Democrats

Already donated.

 

[MoBeats]

You ever run a business?

Have run my own bathroom installation company for 18 years, i employ and sub contract.
Yes.

 

[Kag]

For a start, people with physical or mental disabilities, people suffering from mental illness, people who are full time carers... don't always have the option to just 'work harder' and succeed.

Under this government people with disabilities are actually regularly told that they are lying and that they can infact work, only to be made poorer by the state for that very injustice.

 

[Sweet Square]

this is probably one of the most refreshing things Ive ever read in the current events on the Caf

it wont make you popular though

 

[Dobba]

For a start, people with physical or mental disabilities, people suffering from mental illness, people who are full time carers... don't always have the option to just 'work harder' and succeed.

I'm genuinely expecting some sort of Glenn Hoddle response about them working harder in a previous life at this point.

 

[Kentonio]

I dont know who to vote for! Im stuck. Ive voted Labour all my life, but I cant vote for Corbyn if I apply my principles.

Rock and hard place for a lot of left centrists who wanted to remain in EU. Who else fits this profile and what are you going to do?

Shame there isn't a pro-EU centre left party out there, positioned between the Tories and Labour.. Oh wait..

 

[rcoobc]

Whist changing National Insurance and ultimately making you worse off. Give with one hand and take with another.

But you are right on the point you made.

How did they change National Insurance? (Hammond said he was going to for the self-employed, but then u-turned)

The argument usually is that they do *need* to change National Insurance. Raising the personal allowance to £15k doesn't help someone earning £10k a year... but raising the National Insurance band to £10k could save them £250 a year (or £500 a year if the owner gave them the employer contribution too)

 

[rcoobc]

Shame there isn't a pro-EU centre left party out there, positioned between the Tories and Labour.. Oh wait..

Preeech

 

[Fearless]

Have run my own bathroom installation company for 18 years, i employ and sub contract.
Yes.

So I assume that your accountant gives you the best advice on how to reduce your tax liabilities then?

 

[sammsky1]

Education: If you ever have children, you will use it.

Health: If you are ever sick, you'll probably use it (maybe you have health insurance, but that will be a lot cheaper than in the US thanks to the NHS).

State Pension: You'll still get a state pension aged of £6k a year aged xx

How much tax do you really pay? Assuming you earn £70k

Education:I went to a private school, My parents were not mega rich but made the investment. Same for my kids

Health: private health provided by employer. I was once very sick with Ulcerative Colitis (see Fletcher thread) and hospitalised for 3 months, in private hospital. Same of all my family. Been to GP maybe 5 times in my entire life (because you haver to to access private health)

State Pension: I pay into a private pension. If I get the 6k, great it will pay for lunch

How much tax do you really pay? The most the Government takes!


Im using myself as an illustrative example: I know lots of people like me who voted labour all our life. But if Corbyns now wants even more from me for his 'fair society'. How is it fair on me, after working 10-12 hours every day for past 20 years and studying really really hard at school?

 

[sammsky1]

You're a wanker.

care to explain why?

 

[Randall Flagg]

Under this government people with disabilities are actually regularly told that they are lying and that they can infact work, only to be made poorer by the state for that very injustice.

I have no doubt there are a few isolated cases were they have been wronged. I think mental health should be treated very seriously.

But I reckon in most cases when they are told they can infact work, the authorities are correct and the person in question is a scrounger which really does not help the genuine cases.

Lets now be naive here. We all know them

 

[sammsky1]

For a start, people with physical or mental disabilities, people suffering from mental illness, people who are full time carers... don't always have the option to just 'work harder' and succeed.

Sure that a few a tiny tiny minority, happy to pay for them. But thats not what Corbyn or Labour mean by 'fair society'.

 

[Kentonio]

Im using myself as an illustrative example: I know lots of people like me who voted labour all our life. But if Corbyns now wants even more from me for his 'fair society'. How is it fair on me, after working 10-12 hours every day for past 20 years and studying really really hard at school?

Because another 2% or some bollocks isn't going to kill you, you tightfisted get.

 

[MoBeats]

So I assume that your accountant gives you the best advice on how to reduce your tax liabilities then?

Yes, but it's not tilted in my favour. Small businesses pay their fair share. Big businesses don't.

 

[DOTA]

care to explain why?

Cause poor people need medical treatment more than you need luxuries.

 

[Unmutual]

Where things are up to with the polling at the mo

 

[Unlikely lad]

That people who hate the less off were in Labour long before Corbyn was made leader and in pretty prominent positions too. Admittedly not as prominent as when Corbyn goes after this election and Muggy the Animatronic Immigration Mug becomes leader of the party, but still.

You're right. What I meant by Corbyn has fecked us was mainly a piss take in relation to using his hardline socialist stance as an excuse to jump ship. I personally dislike him, but mainly because of how he dealt with Brexit.

The political future of the country is rather bleak in my opinion, no idea where we go from here.