General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%
  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%

  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
All of you in here pretending not to understand the nuclear question? It's quite ridiculous that Corbin wouldn't say that he would use it. Whether he uses it or not is not the issue but basically admitting he wouldn't, even in the event of an initial strike against us, is suicidal given just how insane some countries with nuclear capabilities are.

On the topic of EU migration, he isn't committing to a meaningful cut in numbers, the key factor behind the Brexit vote for many leave voters.


He pretty much said he wants access to single market as his biggest priority in negotiations. Considering that why would he commit to cutting down on numbers ?

It's Soft Brexit vs Hard.
 
The problem with determining what is "useful" and what isn't though can often depend on a certain ideological slant. And what's useful or gains you employability varies as well...the economy is constantly changing/growing, and what is in demand in 2017 may no longer be perceived as useful in a generation or two. I agree a lot of people may end up going to uni for the sake of it, but actually agreeing on what's useful and what isn't can be tricky.
I'd agree on arbitrary gifting of fees to certain subjects being unwise, but I think with 10bn to spend you could do a lot more good with different schemes of grants and bursaries than just abolishing fees for all.

That said, it's obviously a good vote winner and motivator.
 
How does scraping tuition fees = investing in education? Investing in education would mean more teachers, schools, education facilities etc. What a complete waste of money scrapping tuition fees would be.

Tell that to the people who can't go to uni because they are to poor.
 
By admitting he won't use them, you're taking away the deterrent to those who would happily nuke us in an instant. Surely, surely you can see that?

We have them & the possibility of using them.

All you're asking for is different presentation of the threat.
 
By admitting he won't use them, you're taking away the deterrent to those who would happily nuke us in an instant. Surely, surely you can see that?

This is ridiculous sleight of hand

You claimed it's ridiculous that he won't say he will retaliate in the event that we are attacked with a nuclear weapon

Now you're claiming the question is about deterrence, but in your story we are already under attack, so how does retaliating help?

You've just pivoted the question and are now claiming 'gotcha'
 
All of you in here pretending not to understand the nuclear question? It's quite ridiculous that Corbin wouldn't say that he would use it. Whether he uses it or not is not the issue but basically admitting he wouldn't, even in the event of an initial strike against us, is suicidal given just how insane some countries with nuclear capabilities are.

On the topic of EU migration, he isn't committing to a meaningful cut in numbers, the key factor behind the Brexit vote for many leave voters.
If someone nukes us, it's failed. Miserably and expensively. The fact people talk so freely about wiping innocent people off the face of the earth is startling. The fact you follow it up by talking about other countries with nuclear capabilities being 'insane' beggars belief.
 
He pretty much said he wants access to single market as his biggest priority in negotiations. Considering that why would he commit to cutting down on numbers ?

It's Soft Brexit vs Hard.
Because a huge portion of the leave vote was for curbing EU immigration. It's his job to carry out the will of the people. May, like it or not, question her motives as to why or not, has repeatedly committed to this.
 
The trick is making your enemies think you'd use them though.
By admitting he won't use them, you're taking away the deterrent to those who would happily nuke us in an instant. Surely, surely you can see that?
You really think thats one of the reasons :wenger:
The vast majority of the world doesn't have them and is at no risk of getting nuked. We're not at the height of the Cold War anymore.
 
The problem with determining what is "useful" and what isn't though can often depend on a certain ideological slant. And what's useful or gains you employability varies as well...the economy is constantly changing/growing, and what is in demand in 2017 may no longer be perceived as useful in a generation or two. I agree a lot of people may end up going to uni for the sake of it, but actually agreeing on what's useful and what isn't can be tricky.
Whilst I agree with your point, I do think core subjects are always going to be required. But to prevent becoming over stocked in engineers etc, then a scoring system could be introduced to see where shortages are appearing or being predicted. However this would never work as governments are useless at planning long term or maintaining something introduced by a different party.
 
I'd agree on arbitrary gifting of fees to certain subjects being unwise, but I think with 10bn to spend you could do a lot more good with different schemes of grants and bursaries than just abolishing fees for all.

That said, it's obviously a good vote winner and motivator.

Aye, could be argued that a fee system wherein you're only paying back once you're earning a very comfortable amount would work better: ensures people are able to go to uni and achieve, but they're also giving back once they make a success of themselves.

Not a problem we've got up here, mind...
 
If someone nukes us, it's failed. Miserably and expensively. The fact people talk so freely about wiping innocent people off the face of the earth is startling. The fact you follow it up by talking about other countries with nuclear capabilities being 'insane' beggars belief.
What? Saying you wouldn't retaliate against any strike takes any deterrent away. It defeats the purpose of us having a god damn nuclear deterrent in the first place.
 
Because a huge portion of the leave vote was for curbing EU immigration. It's his job to carry out the will of the people. May, like it or not, question her motives as to why or not, has repeatedly committed to this.
Was that before or after David Davis went on Question Time to admit the 2022 reduction target was an aim rather than a guarantee last night?
 
The vast majority of the world doesn't have them and is at no risk of getting nuked.
I'm afraid I don't agree with you there. International events move quickly and the risk is real.
 
Free education should be provided for those who want it. Lots of people who go to uni just go to cut loose and have no real idea what they want to do (like myself). Should be means tested and have regular student evaluations to continue to receive it
If we see education as a good thing, what's the problem? As those who want it will then go to university?

At least those who wouldn't have wanted it so much can reap the rewards, should they choose.
 
What? Saying you wouldn't retaliate against any strike takes any deterrent away. It defeats the purpose of us having a god damn nuclear deterrent in the first place.
I'd probably be too busy being dead to give a shit to be honest. I do love this hilariously contrived scenario where the rest of the world watches one nation use nukes on another and looks the other way.
 
Whilst I agree with your point, I do think core subjects are always going to be required. But to prevent becoming over stocked in engineers etc, then a scoring system could be introduced to see where shortages are appearing or being predicted. However this would never work as governments are useless at planning long term or maintaining something introduced by a different party.

Might not be an awful idea actually, but aye, as you say no doubt a government would find a way to feck it up.

I think one of the problems we face with university education is that the whole fundamental approach to who goes has changed. We've seen an increased number of people go, as opposed to wealthy elites who can afford it due to their parents, but the thing about that is that it means people who go now (for the most part) are expected to go in order to achieve employment by the end. That's probably a fairly new approach in certain respects for many universities, where employment has to become key over the whole general learning experience.
 
Was that before or after David Davis went on Question Time to admit the 2022 reduction target was an aim rather than a guarantee last night?
At least there's an aim. Corbin just admitted that there won't be a meaningful reduction. Good luck appeasing the millions and millions that voted on just that issue. It's how you alienate a large part of society that's always felt ignored by the political class.
 
Whilst I agree with your point, I do think core subjects are always going to be required. But to prevent becoming over stocked in engineers etc, then a scoring system could be introduced to see where shortages are appearing or being predicted. However this would never work as governments are useless at planning long term or maintaining something introduced by a different party.

This is incredibly naive. No one has a clear idea of what the job market will look like in 20 years thanks to the inevitable rise of AI. In fact flexibility in skills is going to be very important. We should be making sure (1) that students are not overly financially burdened by their choice of study, a choice which may turn out to be a lot less useful than anticipated, and (2) that retraining or changing careers is financially viable, something that it currently is not - second degrees are ££££
 
Because a huge portion of the leave vote was for curbing EU immigration. It's his job to carry out the will of the people. May, like it or not, question her motives as to why or not, has repeatedly committed to this.

Will of the people as per ballot right now is Brexit. And the hard brexiters are not gonna vote for him anyway.

You are being too black and white about it. 48% voted for remaining as well and even out of the rest 52% not all would favor a hard brexit. So nothing is set in stone regards to migration question especially when it is confronted with choice of remaining in single market or not.
 
I'm afraid I don't agree with you there. International events move quickly and the risk is real.

There is no risk, it's just scaremongering. Whoever decides to launch the first missile would get instantly wiped out by the rest and its gameover Planet Earth.

It's absurd given the state of our country that we're actively sat here discussing use of Nucleur Weapons. I mean seriously what the feck. :lol:
 
''Ah, this lot... they say they ain't ever using their bombs, we can proper get stuck in here...''

''Oh shit!''

The deterrent exists anyway, outside of the posturing about one's intent to use them.
 
I'd probably be too busy being dead to give a shit to be honest. I do love this hilariously contrived scenario where the rest of the world watches one nation use nukes on another and looks the other way.
You mean like how the whole world doesn't look away right now as many countries bomb the living hell out of each other?
 
At least there's an aim. Corbin just admitted that there won't be a meaningful reduction. Good luck appeasing the millions and millions that voted on just that issue. It's how you alienate a large part of society that's always felt ignored by the political class.
Psst. It's the same aim the idiot in charge of the party has had for the last 7 years, including when she was in control of that exact issue.
 
There is no risk, it's just scaremongering. Whoever decides to launch the first missile would get instantly wiped out by the rest and its gameover Planet Earth.

It's absurd given the state of our country that we're actively sat here discussing use of Nucleur Weapons. I mean seriously what the feck. :lol:
I'm a Labour member and wet liberal lefty, but this dismissal of the nuclear question is crazy to me. It's one of the biggest issues facing humanity, along with climate change, it could literally be the end of the world. It should be one of the first discussions in any election.
 
Reasonable to say that this audience was move favorable to May?

No not at all. But there was a very vocal, very pro-nuclear weapons contingent and Dimbleby let them spend an unreasonable amount of time on the topic
 
This is incredibly naive. No one has a clear idea of what the job market will look like in 20 years thanks to the inevitable rise of AI. In fact flexibility in skills is going to be very important. We should be making sure (1) that students are not overly financially burdened by their choice of study, a choice which may turn out to be a lot less useful than anticipated, and (2) that retraining or changing careers is financially viable, something that it currently is not - second degrees are ££££

Aye, a fair point which was partly what I was getting at. Due to the fact that markets and demands are constantly changing it's difficult to predict what's needed and what isn't. STEM degrees are typically valued higher than most others but with their increasing prevalence I've heard of people doing them and finding it harder to get ideal employment than what they'd have expected.
 
What? Is this for real? All you need is for a single nuclear power to launch at us.
I'm afraid I don't agree with you there. International events move quickly and the risk is real.
The cold war ended a long time ago, if there is another moment in time where there's a real risk of it happening I'm sure PM Corbyn will be booted by the other MPs. But as it stands, this is just a paranoid line of thinking with no basis in reality.
 
Reasonable to say that this audience was move favorable to May?

It actually felt mildly even tonight. A good few really did seem against Corbyn towards the end but could've been due to the nature of the questions/responses etc.
 
What? Saying you wouldn't retaliate against any strike takes any deterrent away. It defeats the purpose of us having a god damn nuclear deterrent in the first place.

Firstly he didn;t say he wouldn't use them but that he will decide at the time.

And 2ndly their are other countries in the world too who won't look the other way in such a contrived scenario. For example japan and sout korea don't have nukes despite having the capability to produce them and they are at far greater threat from North Korea than UK.