General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%
  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%

  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
The f*cking state of Britain today, when means-testing pensioners for a paltry winter fuel payment is a popular policy...and that in a country notorious for pensioners freezing to death in wintertime.
I don't have a problem with means-testing winter fuel allowance, if it saves money (I don't know if it does or not, given means-testing itself costs). I don't think better off pensioners are the ones succumbing to the cold, due to financial concerns. If we could stop giving unnecessary money to those who can easily pay their gas bills and direct it to those that cannot, that would be ideal.
 
You can say that about any railway network, current or past. Even Germany and France, two of the world's best, are falling to bits if you ask the locals. Nationalised railways cost a fortune if you want them to be anything like half decent. Like most of Labour's current ideas they seem to think they can just create the money out of thin air.

I am often in Germany and have never thought wow what a crappy service. Never heard a local complain about it either. In fact all the Germans I know are quite proud of it.

Not sure France is one of the best on the other hand. I travelled there during the summer quite a bit by train and I didn't think their service was any better than ours. Also some services between areas were running only few times a day so if you missed a train you'd had to wait 4-5 hours for the next.
 
You all know that means-testing for fuel payments is the equivalent of work-assessment for the disabled.

Those who'll end up suffering with the inevitable endless delays, red tape and bureaucracy will be the ones who need it the most. Be sure that Torys will attribute the increase of pensioners freezing to death to higher awareness around the issue just like the higher use of food banks was due to more people finding out they were available...
 
I am often in Germany and have never thought wow what a crappy service. Never heard a local complain about it either. In fact all the Germans I know are quite proud of it.

Not sure France is one of the best on the other hand. I travelled there during the summer quite a bit by train and I didn't think their service was any better than ours. Also some services between areas were running only few times a day so if you missed a train you'd had to wait 4-5 hours for the next.

Germany's railway is great. The point is people will always complain so you can't judge our own railways on that alone.

If we want a network as good as Germany we will need to spend 10-15 billion extra per year to maintain that level, after we invest 100 billion+ to bring it up to that standard in the first place. Privatisation has meant the cost to the taxpayer is relatively little.
 
The German railway really isn't that great, if i'm perfectly honest. We have loads of problems ourselves (Project's costing much more than planned, laughable staff shortages in some key positions, air conditioning that doesn't work in the summer...), it might be a bit better than the current service in the UK (especially considering the prices you pay in the UK). Within Europe I think Switzerland probably does the best job, but in the 21st century Japan and the eastern coast of China is probably the place to look for best practices.
 
Presumably the Immigrant Skills Charge will go from non-EU to non-UK as of 2019. I'm guessing that the idea is to make resident workers more appealing to employers (or their training). This is the first i've heard about the scheme mind you.
Bullshit. The idea that resident workers aren't appealing to employers is nonsense - we're at our highest level of employment in decades.
 
The German railway really isn't that great, if i'm perfectly honest. We have loads of problems ourselves (Project's costing much more than planned, laughable staff shortages in some key positions, air conditioning that doesn't work in the summer...), it might be a bit better than the current service in the UK (especially considering the prices you pay in the UK). Within Europe I think Switzerland probably does the best job, but in the 21st century Japan and the eastern coast of China is probably the place to look for best practices.

China's nationalised railway costs them $130b per year (and thats with Chinese prices) and fares on Japan's privatised railway system can make the UK look cheap.

We can keep a cheap railway or we can nationalise it. Not both, and Labour thinking otherwise shows again how inept they are.
 
You all know that means-testing for fuel payments is the equivalent of work-assessment for the disabled.

Those who'll end up suffering with the inevitable endless delays, red tape and bureaucracy will be the ones who need it the most. Be sure that Torys will attribute the increase of pensioners freezing to death to higher awareness around the issue just like the higher use of food banks was due to more people finding out they were available...

Inclined to agree.

But also there is so much about it that is just so fantastically Tory. From the reasons for having the idea, the presentation of the idea & the lack of understanding about the effect it will have & how this will be explained away in exactly the way that you've said.

It get's done like this for me...

none of my friends need it, we don't need state-based charity in this country, not where I live anyway

good housekeeping = all spending with nothing coming back, we need to stop that very quickly

''benefits for the wealthy middle class'' - taking it off folks who don't need it = good idea, no one can argue with that

it's a ''handout'' - with no useful purpose, people who get it don't deserve it, they don't do (haven't done) anything to deserve it

it will save us loads of money = not even necessarily true

we're proposing other (fairer) things to help folks with their fuel bills...
 
You all know that means-testing for fuel payments is the equivalent of work-assessment for the disabled.

Actually it could be very simply linked to tax code as annuities are earned income (say excluding higher rate tax payers)

No assessment required and minimal cost... just like with the 50k child tax credit earning cap
 
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Actually it could be very simply linked to tax code as annuities are earned income (say excluding higher rate tax payers)

No assessment required and minimal cost... just like with the 50k child tax credit earning cap
I agree
 
If we renationalise the railways then HS2 in the North has to be the number one priority. Why should the Northern taxpayer subsidise a service that operates the majority of its business in the South East?
 


Oh good that will help the housing crisis

Replacement rates for social housing are dire - now let's let investors buy them from under people
 


Yeah its Hodges, but he's right here. May's manifesto isn't popular and will hit her hard in the polls. But in 2015 Osborne got boxed in during a pledge war with Ed Balls, promising not to raise VAT, NI, Income Tax while eliminating the deficit in 5 years. That was clearly a nonsense & it showed in his budgets, which all fell apart quickly. I'm sure May will happily swap a couple of dozen seats if it gives her a free run as PM.


She's pledged to cut immigration to the tens of thousands. A policy which is either impossible or hugely economically damaging.
 
She's pledged to cut immigration to the tens of thousands. A policy which is either impossible or hugely economically damaging.

As Hunt just stated on the BBC when questioned with about Osbourne's claim that no MP think its a good idea (the target). He thinks its a good because they have to show people they're listening to what people want.

Basically admitting its only there for political points scoring
 
As Hunt just stated on the BBC when questioned with about Osbourne's claim that no MP think its a good idea (the target). He thinks its a good because they have to show people they're listening to what people want.

Basically admitting its only there for political points scoring

You'd hope there's only so many times you can promise the unachievable without suffering any repercussions. Especially if you have little intention of actually pursuing it.

Realistically, there will be a relaunched UKIP / Aaron Banks party by the next election to start taking those votes again.
 
You'd hope there's only so many times you can promise the unachievable without suffering any repercussions. Especially if you have little intention of actually pursuing it.

Realistically, there will be a relaunched UKIP / Aaron Banks party by the next election to start taking those votes again.

They're trying to paint the picture that they couldn't reduce numbers because of the EU. Lets face it that argument whilst obviously bollocks will be enough to win over the people who care about such targets.
 
China's nationalised railway costs them $130b per year (and thats with Chinese prices) and fares on Japan's privatised railway system can make the UK look cheap.

We can keep a cheap railway or we can nationalise it. Not both, and Labour thinking otherwise shows again how inept they are.

Conversely, you can buy an annual ticket off Bahn trains in both Germany and the UK. It is wholly owned by the german government. An annual ticket in germany gives you unlimited travel for the entire country. One in the UK gives you travel between brighton and london and back every day as a commuter.

The one in britain costs twice as much as the national ticket in germany. And Bahn get government subsidies on top of those ticket prices from us in the UK.

Right now, we pay in real terms, 3 times as much for private rail as we did for British Rail.
 
Wonder how the Conservative manifesto promises on Triple Lock and social care will change their gargantuan lead in the over 65 demographic.
 
Wonder how the Conservative manifesto promises on Triple Lock and social care will change their gargantuan lead in the over 65 demographic.
It won't, they will never risk comrade Corbyn getting in.
 
Wonder how the Conservative manifesto promises on Triple Lock and social care will change their gargantuan lead in the over 65 demographic.

Their social care plans are already being referred to as the dementia tax, expect every labour politician's appearance on tv and radio over the next few days to include it.
 
Conversely, you can buy an annual ticket off Bahn trains in both Germany and the UK. It is wholly owned by the german government. An annual ticket in germany gives you unlimited travel for the entire country. One in the UK gives you travel between brighton and london and back every day as a commuter.

The one in britain costs twice as much as the national ticket in germany. And Bahn get government subsidies on top of those ticket prices from us in the UK.

Right now, we pay in real terms, 3 times as much for private rail as we did for British Rail.

We = the ~2m who use the railways on a regular basis. Everyone else pays less. It's just moving the cost on to those who use it.
 
Tories are either extremely confident right now or very thick. Quite possibly both.
 
Bullshit. The idea that resident workers aren't appealing to employers is nonsense - we're at our highest level of employment in decades.

What alternative reasoning do you subscribe to, it being a purely money-making tax on business under the guise of an immigration measure?

Although i don't think it is unfair to suggest that some employers pursue foreign labour as a first option, and often not for the best of reasons. Yet even accepting this to be the case, there are some obvious flies in the ointment: such as non-EU being a relatively low contributor, doubts over the supply of natives to fill the posts, and the need to incentivise businesses on training locals.

If you're not making any moves toward addressing the above, it amounts to a tax dressed up as immigration policy. I wonder how much it has even raised though, as you'll need people to enforce the damn thing.
 
Pretty remarkably poll from Ipsos today.



Its been a while since their last poll, which is why the changes looks so dramatic. But still, back to two party politics we go.

Also, Lib Dem leadership race this summer.

At this rate it might just have to go to whoever is left.
 
Tories are either extremely confident right now or very thick. Quite possibly both.

Its just how May operates, she'll do whatever she thinks needs to be done irrespective, quite psychotic. Im sure it does come from a place of confidence as well.

The tone from the tory press this morning is quite something. Spectator have said they should apologise to Ed :lol:
 
Fixed term parliament act getting repealed, not that it was worth the vellum it's written on anyway.
 
Redistribution of civil service jobs away from London.

Channel 4 moving to Birmingham most likely.