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Gay rights (or lack thereof)
- Thread starter calodo2003
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London Pride this weekend. Notice how irrelevant homophobia is to anyone's agenda. Nobody talks about gay rights issues any more. Not even at Pride which is about pronouns, furries and radical, student-based politics. Absolutely nothing to do with rights, challenges and discriminations faced by lesbian and gay people.
Notice the lack of debate around gay homelessness, addiction, safety and health. Because thats no longer what Pride is. They didn't stop calling it 'Gay Pride' just to be more inclusive. They removed 'gay' because it's no longer relevant.
Pride is about kinky heterosexual couples who think dress-up and role play makes them 'queer' and oppressed.
Notice the lack of debate around gay homelessness, addiction, safety and health. Because thats no longer what Pride is. They didn't stop calling it 'Gay Pride' just to be more inclusive. They removed 'gay' because it's no longer relevant.
Pride is about kinky heterosexual couples who think dress-up and role play makes them 'queer' and oppressed.
How do you mean?
Well just look at what isn't on the agenda. Homelessness, drug addiction, mental health, high levels of domestic and sexual abuse. It's been 'Pride month' and let's think about how many times these issues that disproportionately impact gay people have been the agenda.
They haven't. And they won't be. Because the whole 'pride' movement isn't there to raise awareness of these issues any more. It isn't that we simply haven't noticed them. Activism on these issues no longer exists within the formerly named 'gay rights' movement.
I'm not saying other issues the Pride movement leads on aren't important and valid but issues affecting gay people have been squeezed out and there needs to be a conversation about that. When do these issues receive attention now? It isn't during Pride month any more. So when?
I'm happy to see Pride 'evolve' if we saw an alternative outlet for issues that Pride once centred, but there isn't.
Issues impacting the quality of life, and life expectancy of gay people need a focus that the Pride movement simply doesn't give any more. So where does activism for these issues go? It seems it goes into being shouted down for suggesting that focus on them should exist.
We've just had an entire month of 'Pride'. Nobody can pretend to have noticed any focus on gay men's mental health, rates of depression, suicide, substance addictions, homelessness, discrimination, alienation, STIs, domestic abuse, sexual victimisation and general life expectancy.
What's worse than this reality, almost, is how unacceptable it is to even point it out.
"LOL noticing gay issues aren't important any more". Yeah, "lol"
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Do gay issues have specifically bespoke solutions? Genuine question. By that I mean drug addition, domestic violence and the other things you mention may be disproportionately high in certain demographics but does that mean the ways to tackle them require to be different across each demographic or is homelessness just homelessness regardless for example? Im guessing if we take that as one example there may be people kicked out of their family home for coming out but once they are on the street they face the same issues as anyone else? Im not even sure what Im saying is making sense!
Gotta love it when freethinkers/centrists stomp into threads like this with their hot takes. Sometimes it's like they're not even aware how much they are embarrassing themselves. It's almost sad to see.
I'm pretty critical of the larger pride events but I'm not sure this proposed version where we're waving around signs highlighting levels of intimate partner violence in same-sex couples is really the kinda change I'd like to see.
To be honest, I think this is just the ramblings of someone who dislikes the very visible display of trans and non-binary inclusion that you see at these marches. It's very hard to argue that the L's and the G's actually want nothing to do with the T's and the Q's when every year there's an extremely large party where they scream about how they're in it together.
To be honest, I think this is just the ramblings of someone who dislikes the very visible display of trans and non-binary inclusion that you see at these marches. It's very hard to argue that the L's and the G's actually want nothing to do with the T's and the Q's when every year there's an extremely large party where they scream about how they're in it together.
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I just asked a question, there was no "hot take" nor any indication of where my views lie
I could be wrong but I didn't read that comment as aimed at you.
Ah ok, fair enough if not, it was just directly below in a thread that hadn't had traffic for a while so I assumed. My mistake.
I think the issue with many of these things is the recognition of disproportionality, but lack of proportionate response. Many of these issues are 'self' inflicted. Meaning that they are perpetrated by those within the community.
Society knows how to deal with homophobia because it's clear cut and there's a comfortable solution that makes everyone feel good about themselves. When it comes to gay men other issues there is a tendancy to look away. Spiking has been huge issues in the gay community for decades yet everyone looks the other way. Sexual abuse and sexual violence too, and throw in domestic abuse too, disproportionately impacts gay men. Yet societies response to that is a VAWG strategy that effectively settles attention on the heterosexual dynamic that it's far more comfortable with.
It's the whole 'black on black' crime thing. White people only really care about issues that affect black people if they can show themselves as virtuous, non-racists as a result. Do they really care about day to day issues of black families? Doubt it. Some of the biggest issues gay people face have nothing to do with acceptance or allies. They come from within and these issues need to be brought into the light but that makes too many people uncomfortable. So they're ignored.
Why is it that you think pride should be the space for this long hard look at ourselves you're clamouring for? It makes no sense to me. Pride is an outward looking message of defiance/togetherness and always has been.
Because when else does that happen? Pride was always, and should always, be political. It's a protest. It's been and fighting for recognition and rights from its outset.
Pride didn't start because everyone thought it would be a lovely day out in their spangly top. It's a protest movement to promote and draw attention to gay rights and issues. Back then it was about equality and recognition. Today it should be about awareness and promoting issues that are frankly not on the agenda at any other time of year.
It's probably harder today for young men from certain cultural backgrounds to be gay as it was for people back when homosexuality was widely frowned upon. And yet we hear nothing about this. If Pride "isn't the time or place", when is? The lack of support networks to these men is appalling.
The fact everyone had sat back and allowed the vacuous element dominate to the point where we get an entire month and still issues that are harming the quality of life of gay and lesbian people are considered inappropriate for discussion, is the problem to begin with.
Fundamentally I think there's too much concession given to the idea that issues that affect gay men don't really matter that much to mention, even when the platform is presented.
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It's like you've started from the 'what if instead of Pride we did Shame' joke and tried to work from there.
Surely it can be both?
It can, and should. But isn't. I'm not saying it all had to be dower, serious and agenda driven. Yet the fact all of these issues that affect the lives of gay people are not even on the agenda is something I have an issue with.
They aren't? The Sydney Mardi Gras is very much both for example.
I want a more political, confrontational pride but I really don't think the gay community is a suitable target for our anger at a time when our voice is at it's loudest to people outside of it. We are a demonised minority, if we were to use these moments to scream to the world about how our problems are self-inflicted those who want to destroy us will be delighted.
It isn't necessarily about the parade itself. It's the failure to utilise the entire fecking month as a platform to have a national conversation about any meaningful issue. Not disproportionality when it comes to sexual abuse and violence, drug and alcohol addiction or homelessness. Issues that impact gay people from ethnic minority backgrounds aren't even as high on the agenda as those issues that aren't even on the agenda.
I look at the women's rights movement and those who successfully campaign and raise awareness around racism and racial injustice and I see campaigns that effectively keep issues at the forefront of public consciousness. I don't understand how that hasn't been possible when it comes to gay issues.
I don't really feel it is up to me to say what gay people need or should do. My gay friends generally seem to think the visibility of pride alone has made huge changes in societal attitudes over the last 30 years. From gay bashing and murder being acceptable/ignored to gay people being far more accepted into mainstream society (for want of a better term) and the Mardi Gras becoming celebrated and loved. Maybe that is exactly what gay people need?
I always thought pride was about acceptance. If that's the case it seems lately that it's still very necessary.
Agreed.
Exactly this. No one is denying that there are other issues that need highlighting in the gay community at large. But, there is an increased and sustained movement aimed at demonizing and targeting the lives and livelihoods of LGBT, particularly Trans issues right now. Basic survival, daily civil rights being attacked, laws being pushed and fought against are going to take the spotlight.
While there has been increasing public support at large in the West for Gay marriage and acceptance in general. There is still a powerful and large movement that wants to drag LGBT back in the closet and demonize. The focus that could go to the daily LGBT issues like healthcare, domestic abuse in same sex couples, economic disparity etc. Is being overshadowed by the fight back on the swelling of anti LGBT pushback. No one is suggesting that those not be talked about still. Or that Pride month can't be for more "political" purposes. I still think it is.
It is hard to describe if you have never been in a situation where you felt the need to hide who you are at some point in lie. To be able to come together and celebrate the freedom in an accepting environment. Detractors always say why do they have to be so flashy. But, people have to face hiding who they are possibly on a daily basis for whatever reason, work, family etc. When they do finally go to a pride event and can shake some of that off even for a day and just be around other people and know they aren't alone it can be celebratory and life changing in a good way. That isn't to say we cant use those events for education, and pushing for even more change.
I think we need more straight folks telling the lgbt community how they should go on about their business and what the events they organize should be about. They have clearly lost their way, they need to be guided.
Maybe Norway’s different, but there’s plenty of debates and workshops and the like organized during Pride in Oslo. Weirdly though these indoor events are less visible than revelry in the streets.
Maybe that’s why some people have the impression that is just a big diversion and party?
Maybe that’s why some people have the impression that is just a big diversion and party?
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Vladimir Putin signs law banning gender changes in Russia
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...in-signs-law-banning-gender-changes-in-russia
Vladimir Putin has signed legislation that bans people from officially or medically changing their gender, representing a further blow to Russia’s embattled LGBTQ+ community.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...in-signs-law-banning-gender-changes-in-russia
Vladimir Putin has signed legislation that bans people from officially or medically changing their gender, representing a further blow to Russia’s embattled LGBTQ+ community.
Maybe. The diversion parties themselves have been massively diverted in recent years.
Wouldn't be so bad if gay issues were present anywhere else. Even the whole national strategy on issues that disproportionately affect gay people such as sexual and domestic abuse is named 'male violence against women and girls', completely eliminating us.
But they're not. Imagine if the BLM became BLMQT+ and every single issue affecting black people took a back seat and made way for debates around who has and hasn't a penis. That's kind of what's happened to issues that affect LGB people. Isn't to say those issues aren't important, but they could have easily existed without taking virtually all oxygen away from every LGB cause.
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Imagine being so hateful and joyless, that other people just dancing and enjoying a song living their life. Enrages you to the point of murder. In this particular case he was listening to Beyonce. And it reminded me of all the clips from men and women just like him you see dressing up and going to see her tour this summer. People just wanting to dance and enjoy music with all the distractions and problems in the world you still can't feel 100 percent safe even doing the most basic things like filling up a tank of gas.
she was performing near nyc on the same day too.
Yeah that's why I mentioned the clips you see online of people just like him dressing up, dancing, enjoying themselves to likely the very same songs they were. And there are people just so bothered by that joy they are willing to fight and kill for it.
Imagine if it was named BAME instead or something, I don't know.
That's not what's happened at all
It's so fecking twisted.
Grim
Christ, that is so utterly infuriating.
this incident is exactly what trans people mean when they say we fear for our lives every day.
Police are looking for a 17 y/o suspect.
Gotta wonder what that young man's search history would turn up.
Gotta wonder what that young man's search history would turn up.
Rather which religious establishment he was frequenting.