Gareth Bale

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They couldn't figure him out last time he was in the PL. I remeber when he beat West Ham on huis own and Allardyce put it well - you tell players to close him down he goes past them. They gave him space instead and he was teeing off with shots all over the place, scoring twice. Its fine having a plan to deal with a player, but actually putting it into action is easier said than done. That's what seperates the best players from the average ones and pacy, strong and direct players are always difficult to deal with.

I couldnt disagree more about how it affects the system. Our "possesion football" is fine and lest us cotrol the game but as it stands its all one paced. Teams can just sit back and rely on us unpicking them. I've said it before - we need to be able to change the pace of the attack to make us less predictable - by speed of passing and by having pace to get in behind. Being able to hit teams on the break and stretch the play will take us to another level.

It doesn't happen nearly though, it's one example. Bale was at his best at Spurs because of the freedom to do anything he want and most importantly the freedom to shoot the ball whenever he wanted. He's just above average in tight spaces and in a team that would need him to use that regularly, he would get found out quickly and easily.
The pace of our possession isn't a pb, it's just that we don't have players who regularly attempt to beat their players except Young. This is where we're too easy to defend against, a player like Nani at his best would have been amazing, a quick player indeed but most importantly a skillful player who isn't afraid to players on.
Bale needs space to express himself and he doesn't have the skills to consistently create that space when he's being closed down.
 
The one bonus about the De Gea to Madrid thing is that we could easily use it as a paper weight for Bale.

Bale-Rooney-Depay is just too mouth-watering to ignore.
 
Whenever I see him play for Real this season it feels like he is the one guy that no one really wants to play with but since he is a good player the coach will select him anyways but non of the other players on the field really wants to give him the ball or trusts him much. Weirdly he looked more integrated in his first season than he does now.

Maybe it's a dominance thing? Ronnie probably mounted him in front of the whole squad and now everyone knows Bale is his bitch?
 
It's not fair that CM got promoted to Admiral when I've been here longer than he has.
 
If you think they're not addressing these issues at the expense of pursuing other attacking players then you're mad.

I suspect we'll sign a full back, a centreback and a midfielder. In fact, I'm almost certain we will. Doesnt mean the club won't be targetting other players as well.
No I'm saying it should be no1 on the hit list, obviously it will be addressed but it should be top priority along with the De Gea situation!
 
It doesn't happen nearly though, it's one example. Bale was at his best at Spurs because of the freedom to do anything he want and most importantly the freedom to shoot the ball whenever he wanted. He's just above average in tight spaces and in a team that would need him to use that regularly, he would get found out quickly and easily.
The pace of our possession isn't a pb, it's just that we don't have players who regularly attempt to beat their players except Young. This is where we're too easy to defend against, a player like Nani at his best would have been amazing, a quick player indeed but most importantly a skillful player who isn't afraid to players on.
Bale needs space to express himself and he doesn't have the skills to consistently create that space when he's being closed down.

I disagree. As I said, his pace, power and ability to shoot from distance is difficult to stop. Its easy to sit here and say "he's easy to stop" - the reality is not many teams could in his last 18 months in the PL and that's why top clubs were, and remain interested in him. That's because of his ability to win games (which he did repeatedly for Spurs over a significant period) which frankly is a very rare commodity in a player.

It amazes me that some people seem to think that one slightly below par season (which by normal standards actually hasn't been that bad, and is significatly better in terms of output than most of our players have managed) means you're finished.

The fact is he was excellent in the PL before he left and while any signing is a risk, given his ability it's fair to assume that there's a good chance he'll be as effective if he comes back. Playing in a better side, with better players than he was at Spurs means he can't be doubled up on easily because there are other quality players to worry about. Having played for a top side, with excellent players he may even be a better player than when he left. That's why the other top clubs in the PL will want him and why we should want him as well.

Indeed, if the Van Gaal quote is right, it seems the club do want him. if he comes in then Van Gaal will no doubt have an idea of where he plays and what he wants him to do. This "he doesnt fit out style" argument is redundant if the club go after him, unless the fans think they know what Van Gaal wants to do better than he does.
 
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No I'm saying it should be no1 on the hit list, obviously it will be addressed but it should be top priority along with the De Gea situation!

I'm not sure how you think it works. Do you think the club will be working on one deal at a time on an actual list? The players they want will probably already have been identified for some time and talks with agents and perhaps even the players clubs will have been taking place. The club will likely have a team of people who handle this kind of thing.

This summer is different to last as we have a manager who has assessed the squad and knows what he needs. I suspect he's got targets who he wants and second choice players if they don't come off.
 
Whenever I see him play for Real this season it feels like he is the one guy that no one really wants to play with but since he is a good player the coach will select him anyways but non of the other players on the field really wants to give him the ball or trusts him much. Weirdly he looked more integrated in his first season than he does now.

Maybe it's a dominance thing? Ronnie probably mounted him in front of the whole squad and now everyone knows Bale is his bitch?

:lol:
 
It amazes me that some people seem to think that one slightly below par season (which by normal standards actually hasn't been that bad, and is significatly better in terms of output than most of our players have managed) means you're finished.

3 goals in his last ~20 games, while being one of the most expensive attackers in football. That's almost Falcao numbers, and completely invisible in most big games.

I think he is a great player but the prices thrown around are absurd. They overpaid two seasons ago and now he is older, his output has been poor this season, seems interested in leaving, madrid fans despise him, madrid may have a transfer ban looming, etc. Price should be much lower.
 
3 goals in his last ~20 games, while being one of the most expensive attackers in football. That's almost Falcao numbers, and completely invisible in most big games.

I think he is a great player but the prices thrown around are absurd. They overpaid two seasons ago and now he is older, his output has been poor this season, seems interested in leaving, madrid fans despise him, madrid may have a transfer ban looming, etc. Price should be much lower.

The fee doesnt concern me. if the club go after him as a "marquee" signing and deem him worth whatever they've paid then fair play to them. If he doesnt come here then I suspect he'll be back in the PL with either City or Chelsea, and that's not good for our long term prospects.

As it is Real badly want De Gea so that's the route to United getting Bale for a decent fee. I suspect De Gea will go anyway so they may as well benefit from that.

As I said above, in my opinion a poor season doesn't mean (especially at 25) you're done. I see him as a success here not because of what he did in Spain, but for what he did when he was in the PL last time. If we look at things like you are I assume you think Di Maria - the most expensive signing in british football - should be sold ASAP because he's been average at best. I think he deserves a chance to prove what he can do because while form is temporary, class is permanent and like Bale, he's too good a player to dismiss so quickly.

In terms of comparing Bale to Falcao - the latter looks a shadow of the player he was physically, after a couple of very bad injuries, the former is a player out of form, a long way from home and getting (in my opinion) unfair stick of the fans deserate to blame someone for a recent poor run.
 
I wish the talk of record fees would just go away. Why on Earth would we have to pay more than £60 million for him. It'd be ridiculous if Woodward couldn't negotiate a better deal than £85 million or whatever the articles are saying. It was bad enough having to pay £60 million for Di Maria when there really wasn't even much competition as PSG couldn't pay it due to FFP.

If Real end up making a profit or breaking even on Bale after this season while De Gea goes the other way for peanuts we really would be Madrid's bitch.
 
I noticed that you are a Welshman, would you like to see Bale in United colours?

Yes, mate. For some reason, I've always imagined him running past masses of opponents from his own box, like a Giggs/Andrei hybrid-type thingy. He just seems like a United player.
 
If Real end up making a profit or breaking even on Bale after this season while De Gea goes the other way for peanuts we really would be Madrid's bitch.

this is the nature of contracts these days. every year a contract drops, the less valuable the player becomes. this is our fault for not extending De Gea last season.
 
this is the nature of contracts these days. every year a contract drops, the less valuable the player becomes. this is our fault for not extending De Gea last season.

I think they tried tbh, but the Moyes issues and Fergie leaving probably made him wait. Should have tied him up before Fergie announced his retirement.
 
3 goals in his last ~20 games, while being one of the most expensive attackers in football. That's almost Falcao numbers, and completely invisible in most big games.

I think he is a great player but the prices thrown around are absurd. They overpaid two seasons ago and now he is older, his output has been poor this season, seems interested in leaving, madrid fans despise him, madrid may have a transfer ban looming, etc. Price should be much lower.
What do you expect when he's excluded in training and your own fans boo him? He's well and truly fecked off and that's going to badly effect performance.
 
What do you expect when he's excluded in training and your own fans boo him? He's well and truly fecked off and that's going to badly effect performance.

I expect a much lower price than what they paid two seasons ago.

And I'm not sure he'd fit in Van Gaal's style but that's another matter.
 
I expect a much lower price than what they paid two seasons ago.

And I'm not sure he'd fit in Van Gaal's style but that's another matter.
I was replying more in reference to the goals to games you've presented, though I do agree based on form he should be cheaper.
 
I expect a much lower price than what they paid two seasons ago.

And I'm not sure he'd fit in Van Gaal's style but that's another matter.
I was replying more in reference to the goals to games you've presented, though I do agree based on form he should be cheaper.
 
Gareth Bale is undoubtedly a player of very high quality and accustomed to the league, so the frantic pace and physicality won't be a huge transition for him. But a couple of things concerning a potential transfer to United give me pause.

As has been stated before, he is not the ideal fit for Louis Van Gaal's system. It might not matter with a more pragmatic manager who can tailor his approach to suit the players at his disposal (like Fergie or Ancelotti), but under Van Gaal, the scheme is paramount, with individual player characteristics even taking the backseat at times - this a big reason why even some obviously world-class players wilt under the command of the at times uncompromising Iron Tulip.

Bale's biggest strengths are his speed in space, shooting - both from a distance and inside the box, and power, which can be a devastating combination when he's not overly burdened by tactical instructions - but rather given the freedom to express himself in a more counter-attack oriented approach. Problem is that Van Gaal usually professes a more deliberate, passing based approach where each player is a cog in the whole setup and can execute the gameplan efficiently and Bale might not fight in with his overall vision. One does wonder how effective Bale will be under Van Gaal when a lot of his strengths will be subdued, will an 80 % Bale be equally effective overall in our gameplan ?

Some might counter that with the fact that Robben was a pacy centerpiece for Van Gaal at both Bayern and with the Netherlands national team. But there is a fundamental difference in their playing styles - Arjen is a more technical dribbler of the ball who aside from having a great burst, has very delicate control of the ball in closer areas/ when pressed; as opposed to Bale who relies more on momentum based dribbling to get by players, something that can be stifled by denying him the space to operate in (as has happened at times in Spain). Robben aside from being a consistent goalscorer, plays a prominent role in Bayern's buildup play - much like Ribery though to a lesser degree. His short and long passing apart from being more accurate, is a level above Bale in terms of creativity with quality through balls, clever interplay and better overall field vision. And in line with Van Gaal's preference for having consummate playmakers in wider areas - his volume of passes regularly stands in the ~50 region which is a very good return for a winger, as opposed to Bale who has almost half the amount of touches at ~30.

Also the prices being bandied about are insane. Since the transfer to Madrid, he's worse for wear, has been under-performing, apparently wants out of the club and is unsettled from a personal standpoint, has had lingering health issues - and we're supposed to pay a world record fee despite him obviously being in a worse off situation than he was while at Tottenham ? Nah. Fair enough, it's not the supporters' money and we shouldn't really care. But the deal might set another dangerous precedent, which would only add to the impression that United regularly overpays for players from an investment vs performances standpoint compared with the likes of Bayern who extracted fabulous value for the likes of Robben and Ribery. If anything, we should pay £20 million less than what Madrid paid to Tottenham (a more respectful and appropriate fee), considering the player's diminished profile.
 
Gareth Bale is undoubtedly a player of very high quality and accustomed to the league, so the frantic pace and physicality won't be a huge transition for him. But a couple of things concerning a potential transfer to United give me pause.

As has been stated before, he is not the ideal fit for Louis Van Gaal's system. It might not matter with a more pragmatic manager who can tailor his approach to suit the players at his disposal (like Fergie or Ancelotti), but under Van Gaal, the scheme is paramount, with individual player characteristics even taking the backseat at times - this a big reason why even some obviously world-class players wilt under the command of the at times uncompromising Iron Tulip.

Bale's biggest strengths are his speed in space, shooting - both from a distance and inside the box, and power, which can be a devastating combination when he's not overly burdened by tactical instructions - but rather given the freedom to express himself in a more counter-attack oriented approach. Problem is that Van Gaal usually professes a more deliberate, passing based approach where each player is a cog in the whole setup and can execute the gameplan efficiently and Bale might not fight in with his overall vision. One does wonder how effective Bale will be under Van Gaal when a lot of his strengths will be subdued, will an 80 % Bale be equally effective overall in our gameplan ?

Some might counter that with the fact that Robben was a pacy centerpiece for Van Gaal at both Bayern and with the Netherlands national team. But there is a fundamental difference in their playing styles - Arjen is a more technical dribbler of the ball who aside from having a great burst, has very delicate control of the ball in closer areas/ when pressed; as opposed to Bale who relies more on momentum based dribbling to get by players, something that can be stifled by denying him the space to operate in (as has happened at times in Spain). Robben aside from being a consistent goalscorer, plays a prominent role in Bayern's buildup play - much like Ribery though to a lesser degree. His short and long passing apart from being more accurate, is a level above Bale in terms of creativity with quality through balls, clever interplay and better overall field vision. And in line with Van Gaal's preference for having consummate playmakers in wider areas - his volume of passes regularly stands in the ~50 region which is a very good return for a winger, as opposed to Bale who has almost half the amount of touches at ~30.

Also the prices being bandied about are insane. Since the transfer to Madrid, he's worse for wear, has been under-performing, apparently wants out of the club and is unsettled from a personal standpoint, has had lingering health issues - and we're supposed to pay a world record fee despite him obviously being in a worse off situation than he was while at Tottenham ? Nah. Fair enough, it's not the supporters' money and we shouldn't really care. But the deal might set another dangerous precedent, which would only add to the impression that United regularly overpays for players from an investment vs performances standpoint compared with the likes of Bayern who extracted fabulous value for the likes of Robben and Ribery. If anything, we should pay £20 million less than what Madrid paid to Tottenham (a more respectful and appropriate fee), considering the player's diminished profile.

You bring up some very interesting points. It would definitely be a risk when you factor in how specific LVG is about the way his players perform.
 
Balague has said he is definitely staying.

To those who question whether he would be a good addition: who on earth do you think we could get that would bring us up even towards the top European clubs? A proper talisman?

We absolutely desperately need Bale Imo.
 
Balague has said he is definitely staying.

To those who question whether he would be a good addition: who on earth do you think we could get that would bring us up even towards the top European clubs? A proper talisman?

We absolutely desperately need Bale Imo.

You seem to say that we should take Bale because there is no one else, that's not a good tactic. If no one is available you keep your money.
And it's even truer when we have Di Maria who played brilliantly on the right wing for years at Madrid.
 
If the likes of Fellani / Young / Valencia, even Rooney can adapt to LVG style, why can't Bale?
What LVG does isn't mould every player into the same prototype, he will try and merge his philosophy with the players talent. He never had a Mata type playing in his false winger role yet he made it work. He never had a Fellani type yet made him the focal point of his attacks.
If we sign Bale, we wouldn't be signing a Robben equivalent. We would be signing Bale. The same way Robben wasn't an equivalent of any player Van Gaal had at any of his previous clubs.
 
I can't understand why there is even a debate about this.

He's brilliant, in a position we need, proven in PL and Champs League, and now won't want to feck off to spain a couple of years after buying him.

Who cares how much he costs? Its not your money. If the club can afford to spend 80m on him then Who are we to argue?

The only reason people REALLY care about the cost of players is the ribbing you get in the pub from scousers et al when we spunk loads on a flop. But, seriously, who cares?

Get him in.
 
Balague has said he is definitely staying.

To those who question whether he would be a good addition: who on earth do you think we could get that would bring us up even towards the top European clubs? A proper talisman?

We absolutely desperately need Bale Imo.

Balague would of been sure that Di Maria was staying at this point last year to, Alot can and will change in Summer.

Apparently his wife and kid are living back in the UK and if that is true, Then he will struggle to stay in Spain for the long haul (see De Gea situation etc.)
 
De gea - £40 mil
Bale - £45 mil

Shouldn't have to pay that much for him if we use de gea in a deal.
 
I can't understand why there is even a debate about this.

He's brilliant, in a position we need, proven in PL and Champs League, and now won't want to feck off to spain a couple of years after buying him.

Who cares how much he costs? Its not your money. If the club can afford to spend 80m on him then Who are we to argue?

The only reason people REALLY care about the cost of players is the ribbing you get in the pub from scousers et al when we spunk loads on a flop. But, seriously, who cares?

Get him in.


My thoughts exactly, it's as if buying bale will wipe out every United fans bank account. :lol:

Seriously who cares how much he costs we are the biggest team in the world in terms of commercial revenue. £70 million to us is penny change. Bale is top quality he would get us double goals and assist numbers and he'd win games by himself for us, if there's any sniff he's homesick or whatever we should be all over him.
 
If the likes of Fellani / Young / Valencia, even Rooney can adapt to LVG style, why can't Bale?
What LVG does isn't mould every player into the same prototype, he will try and merge his philosophy with the players talent. He never had a Mata type playing in his false winger role yet he made it work. He never had a Fellani type yet made him the focal point of his attacks.
If we sign Bale, we wouldn't be signing a Robben equivalent. We would be signing Bale. The same way Robben wasn't an equivalent of any player Van Gaal had at any of his previous clubs.

You, and a lot of others seem to be brushing over the fact that due to a collusion of circumstances, most of the players are holdovers from the previous regime, and Van Gaal is yet to fully put his stamp on the squad. This season was very much about this particular set of players being means to an end, XYZ might have adapted but that doesn't make them super effective in Van Gaal's future setup, once he flushes a lot of our current players out (like he did last summer, and usually does at his clubs once the first season is finished - even starters aren't spared). Once he is fully established and has his own pickings of transfers - a lot of the players mentioned won't start regularly for United. This is a consistent theme with Van Gaal throughout his managerial career.

Also, no one is equating Bale with Robben, just comparing their relative styles and highlighting the argument that given Van Gaal track record, there are suggestions of him preferring a different kind of wide attacking player (Rivaldo pushed out wide at Barcelona, Overmars, Figo, Ribery first season, Robben and so forth - all of them have more in common with each other from a stylistic, technique oriented standpoint than Bale).

Again, just to reemphasize, Bale might be a very good sign given his obvious qualities and by all accounts, he has a chance to succeed. But he carries certain risky elements so there is definite scope for caution considering the prohibitive price-tag, and the argument shouldn't be as reductive as 'Bale will be smashing', 'he will be a talisman', 'we should definitely sign him, those that even doubt his fit are bonkers' etc.
 
@devilish

Depay plays on the left wing all the time?

It isn't a stretch by any means to play any winger on the opposite side. I feel you are being a little dramatic.

He has only played on the right wing as a youth player, but it takes away his best asset: cutting inside and shooting. He hasn't played on the right for over 2 years now. Memphis has got a great long shot, taking this away to fit in Bale who does exactly the same from the left will be a waste. Memphis is much closer to Robben than Bale is in style of play.

I completely agree with @Invictus
Bale is a great player, but we currently got 5 players who can play on the wing, including Mata and Di Maria. Young and Memphis can only play on the left, Rooney is our undroppable striker. Where would Bale play? We can't bench Di Maria, Rooney or Bale because of their wages. On top of that Bale doesn't really offer what we need and will cost an arm and a leg. It's not our money, but I doubt van Gaal wants to spend most of his budget on a player who isn't really what he needs right now.

LW: Young, Memphis, Di Maria
RW: Di Maria, Mata, Januzaj
ST: Rooney
 
I disagree. As I said, his pace, power and ability to shoot from distance is difficult to stop. Its easy to sit here and say "he's easy to stop" - the reality is not many teams could in his last 18 months in the PL and that's why top clubs were, and remain interested in him. That's because of his ability to win games (which he did repeatedly for Spurs over a significant period) which frankly is a very rare commodity in a player.

It amazes me that some people seem to think that one slightly below par season (which by normal standards actually hasn't been that bad, and is significatly better in terms of output than most of our players have managed) means you're finished.

The fact is he was excellent in the PL before he left and while any signing is a risk, given his ability it's fair to assume that there's a good chance he'll be as effective if he comes back. Playing in a better side, with better players than he was at Spurs means he can't be doubled up on easily because there are other quality players to worry about. Having played for a top side, with excellent players he may even be a better player than when he left. That's why the other top clubs in the PL will want him and why we should want him as well.

Indeed, if the Van Gaal quote is right, it seems the club do want him. if he comes in then Van Gaal will no doubt have an idea of where he plays and what he wants him to do. This "he doesnt fit out style" argument is redundant if the club go after him, unless the fans think they know what Van Gaal wants to do better than he does.

I never said nor meant that. Just wondering if he'd be a good fit for the club is all. I know he's a very good player but sometimes it just doesn't work out when your coach plan to play a football not made for you. @Invictus 's great post explains in much better details how I see the situation. I don't know if we'll agree much after that but that is fine.
When it comes to scoring for fun in the PL, it really was mostly about his great long shooting and not really thanks to his technical ability to dribble in tight spaces. If we sign Bale then we'll have to give him the "special" freedom to do basically what he wants to play at his best and this is something I can't see working with LVG.
 
I never said nor meant that. Just wondering if he'd be a good fit for the club is all. I know he's a very good player but sometimes it just doesn't work out when your coach plan to play a football not made for you. @Invictus 's great post explains in much better details how I see the situation. I don't know if we'll agree much after that but that is fine.
When it comes to scoring for fun in the PL, it really was mostly about his great long shooting and not really thanks to his technical ability to dribble in tight spaces. If we sign Bale then we'll have to give him the "special" freedom to do basically what he wants to play at his best and this is something I can't see working with LVG.

At the end of the day, whether he, or any player is a success here is always an unknown. The best you can do is asses a players skill set or past performances and try to find someone who is more likely than not to suceed. he is one such player.

I've heard this "he's not good in tight spaces" argument before on here as well. The fact is that while he might not be a metronimic passer, it is not his game - in the same way that Mata, or Herrera (whilst being very good passers) are not able to go past a player with ease. Being succesful is about building a team with players with different abilities and trying to find a balance.

At the end of the day a lot of people on here using this "he doesn't fit Van Gaal's style" argument may very well be correct. If that's the case then we won't be making a bid or have any interest whatsoever in the player. That being said, it appears we are at least interested in him (if the reports are to be believed) which suggests that Van Gaal does think he will fit in.

We all have an opinion and mineis that playing one paced possession football without anything else will not get us back challenging for titles. It works at times but allows teams just to shut up shop and defend deep safe in the knowledge that we can't attack with speed or directness. I personally think adding a player like this will give us what we are lacking - speed, a threat going forward and probably 15 - 20 goals more than we have in the side now.
 
At the end of the day, whether he, or any player is a success here is always an unknown. The best you can do is asses a players skill set or past performances and try to find someone who is more likely than not to suceed. he is one such player.

I've heard this "he's not good in tight spaces" argument before on here as well. The fact is that while he might not be a metronimic passer, it is not his game - in the same way that Mata, or Herrera (whilst being very good passers) are not able to go past a player with ease. Being succesful is about building a team with players with different abilities and trying to find a balance.

At the end of the day a lot of people on here using this "he doesn't fit Van Gaal's style" argument may very well be correct. If that's the case then we won't be making a bid or have any interest whatsoever in the player. That being said, it appears we are at least interested in him (if the reports are to be believed) which suggests that Van Gaal does think he will fit in.

We all have an opinion and mineis that playing one paced possession football without anything else will not get us back challenging for titles. It works at times but allows teams just to shut up shop and defend deep safe in the knowledge that we can't attack with speed or directness. I personally think adding a player like this will give us what we are lacking - speed, a threat going forward and probably 15 - 20 goals more than we have in the side now.

If we sign him, I'll be excited for sure, I'll instantly forget about my current concerns and just hope for the best. We do need pace and goals and Bale's game is just about that. One thing is sure, to further his career, he has got to leave Real Madrid.
 
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