Yeah like how people aren't used to a character they've followed for eight seasons who has largely been a really good person and is destined for great things suddenly going completely mental and burning down an entire city just cause a few bad things happ.. oh wait no, bad example.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
Ha, I did say "when done well".
Having one of the main protagonists and someone the audience sympathises with ultimately turn bad (and prompt the audience to realise that they had previously been complicit in agreeing with the steps she took along the way) is on paper a fantastic idea and I'm sure it will work very well in the books. Less so when it's being handled by idiots in a rush.
Oh no I totally agree. I was just taking the mick out of the torrid shit show that was season eight! I loved Oberyn's death in the books and loved it in the show too. I mean.. love as in it was horrible and I hated GRRM for it, but for what it illicated in me, it was pure genius really.
Ugh. Hard to recall that season without getting upset.
The main difference with Oberyn in the books is that we saw him only through Tyrion’s POV, so our feeling towards the character is mostly dictated by our bias towards Tyrion. There’s this mysterious, sarcastic, known-to-be-dangerous character who popped up briefly and very much remained on the periphery until he stepped in at Tyrion’s darkest moment of needs, after Bronn already betrayed him. We were then worried about his prowess, wondering if he’s all fart and no shit, then began to build our hopes up as the fight progressed only to have it dashed most brutally at the end because of his overconfidence and single-mindedness for revenge, which was hinted at in prior descriptions and exchanges but didn’t fully reveal themselves until that moment.
By putting him front and center, the show robbed him a bit of that mystique even though it endeared him to the audience more.
By putting him front and center, the show robbed him a bit of that mystique even though it endeared him to the audience more.
Watching the final episode and was thinking it’s not as bad as I remember it being... but completely forgot about the dragon melting the iron throne 
Just rewatched the final season, and I think the most frustrating thing is that you can genuinely find the bones of a good season in there, and it was only a few extra episodes and some fairly obvious changes away from being a far more satisfying conclusion than we got.
I actually think they did a fairly decent job building tension with Dany and making her more and more isolated, but it still doesn't justify her slaughtering thousands of innocents. But you fix that problem if you have Cersei place wildfire all through the city. You have Dany burn just the Red Keep, but because of the wildfire, the blaze spreads and kills thousands of innocents. So Dany still causes death and destruction, but does so unintentionally. You can also save Jamie's storyline by having him find Cersei, but then be horrified when he discovers she's stashed wildfire throughout the city and plans to let everyone burn. You can have him realise Cersei is just another Aerys and kill her.
I actually think they did a fairly decent job building tension with Dany and making her more and more isolated, but it still doesn't justify her slaughtering thousands of innocents. But you fix that problem if you have Cersei place wildfire all through the city. You have Dany burn just the Red Keep, but because of the wildfire, the blaze spreads and kills thousands of innocents. So Dany still causes death and destruction, but does so unintentionally. You can also save Jamie's storyline by having him find Cersei, but then be horrified when he discovers she's stashed wildfire throughout the city and plans to let everyone burn. You can have him realise Cersei is just another Aerys and kill her.
Both of these would have been better.
It would have been good if the White Walkers had more than one episode after hyping 7 seasons of their attack. Could have easily built of a couple of more tense episodes with more of a Walking Dead vibe (the good bits), really build up the threat a bit more.
Also how cool would it be if we ended up with one of the main characters join the army of the dead for a few episodes. GoT got far too protective of its main characters after it run out of source material from the books - a big character becoming a white Walker would have been great for the shocker factor.
Arya should never have killed the Night King either. It should have been Jon really, let’s be honest.
Jon was busy screaming at a dragon though
But wasn't that the plan for arya all along. In like season 2 the red woman tells her she'll close blue eyes etc etc..?
I think it was season 3 but I don’t feel like that was something that was planned. I see it more as a passing comment about eye colours in relation to the fact that Arya would kill lots of people, that has been made to tie in by one of the writers of the later seasons because the thought they were being clever.
The whole show should have at least 1 or 2 seasons more. I just guess besides being bored D&D simply didn't have in them to write a good script without source material. Personally though despite that GOT was famed for "subverting" expectations, I really would have preferred a more cliche ending compared to what we got. When you listen to the fan theories about what directions the books might take from here(if they are ever finished), it's just so much more interesting than what we got. Which was not only poorly written and poorly executed. I agree Jon should have killed the Night King or at least duelled him, or they could have taken him down in a more collective effort. Bran could have been so much more. I'd recommend listening to this fan theory on Bloodraven, if you don't mind learning the backstory on the 3 eyed raven.
To be honest I'd still have taken Jon as king even if it would have been cliche, but they would have had to made him a bit more interesting as well. For me Jon was always the main protagonist of the series. Both Brann and Jon were dull at this point, but at least would feel like Jon had earned it. Brann spent the whole series not really doing anything while most of his story were other people doing things for him because he's a cripple and all getting killed the in process.
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just recently found out that Martell lad is the main Character in Mandalorian and Narcos
the cnut is everywhere.
haha fairplay.
the cnut is everywhere.
haha fairplay.
The big difference with GRRM subverting expectations was that after the shocking moments occur and you're no longer running around shouting "omg omg omg" you can calmly reflect on the trail of breadcrumbs he's left up to that moment and say "ah, actually this makes total sense". Whereas with D&D it was just a case of "let's make something that those morons in that bar will pull shocked faces at and forget if it makes sense or not."
Bloody mental, really.
I would have liked that. Spread over episodes it could have been great, especially if they played into the people fearing Dany and 'choosing' thelesser of the evils of Cersei over the outsider Dany. Dany would could have said 'its all for the better cause' that they burned, even though she would have liked to avoid it, etc.
Agree wit the White walkers and wights. Imagine the first fight, they all get pushed back ,they lose two or three people who end up Wights. Or you see Hodor turn up as a wight.
Not only that but the whole deal with the swords, and none of the carriers fought against any of the WW.
The first loss happens and they are pushed back, having to retreat and stuck between KL with Cersei and her army and the NK and their army. So many possibilities.
@Shamana The Bran thing feels like trolling. Even the actor thought it was a fake script
I would have liked that. Spread over episodes it could have been great, especially if they played into the people fearing Dany and 'choosing' thelesser of the evils of Cersei over the outsider Dany. Dany would could have said 'its all for the better cause' that they burned, even though she would have liked to avoid it, etc.
Agree wit the White walkers and wights. Imagine the first fight, they all get pushed back ,they lose two or three people who end up Wights. Or you see Hodor turn up as a wight.
Not only that but the whole deal with the swords, and none of the carriers fought against any of the WW.
The first loss happens and they are pushed back, having to retreat and stuck between KL with Cersei and her army and the NK and their army. So many possibilities.
@Shamana The Bran thing feels like trolling. Even the actor thought it was a fake script
They could have made Jon king, since he'd earned it and the son of Rhaegar who was beloved by the people. Then Bran could be his hand like Bloodraven was but only more benevolent, but with much greater powers. Tyrion had already been hand twice and was terrible for Dany. He could just have taken up his mantle as master of Casterly rock or master of coin(instead of Bronn).
I also love how Sansa blurts out that Bran is impotent to all the lords and ladies of westeros.
Going to be the lead in HBO's The Last of Us as well. That Pedro is so hot right now.
Nope, that's a red herring. If you go back to the line in season three, she puts no particular emphasis on "blue eyes"; the point was that she would be a killer. I believe the writers took this and used it to suit their purposes later when the decided Arya would be the one to kill the Night King.
Counter argument - in Season 7 the war between Dany and Cersei is effectively put on hold after the Field of Fire (where Bronn dies and Jaime is captured) because the White Walkers take Castle Black (courtesy of Bran's mark). Season 7 is effectively Dany gaining the allegiance of the North by joining their war against the Army of the Dead. Night King dies in a fight with someone other than Jon (feck it, still Arya because why not). Body doesn't disappear because he's, you know, the fecking Night King, so it's taken to the only place that can really keep him entombed - a mountain made entirely out of dragonglass.I would have liked that. Spread over episodes it could have been great, especially if they played into the people fearing Dany and 'choosing' thelesser of the evils of Cersei over the outsider Dany. Dany would could have said 'its all for the better cause' that they burned, even though she would have liked to avoid it, etc.
Agree wit the White walkers and wights. Imagine the first fight, they all get pushed back ,they lose two or three people who end up Wights. Or you see Hodor turn up as a wight.
Not only that but the whole deal with the swords, and none of the carriers fought against any of the WW.
The first loss happens and they are pushed back, having to retreat and stuck between KL with Cersei and her army and the NK and their army. So many possibilities.
@Shamana The Bran thing feels like trolling. Even the actor thought it was a fake script
But, uh oh, Jon is a Targ. North support him again. Jon loves Dany at this point so he says he'll serve Dany. Dany happy but pissed at the North. First sign of problems brewing.
Cersei uses the opportunity to strengthen her poor position in the Crownlands and ultimately fails because Dany left some of her army to siege King's Landing (Tyrion is there which opens up opportunities for some tasty negotiation scenes and attempts to outmanoeuvre one another) - her entire plot that season consists of trying to get rid of peasant uprisings due to lack of food and because, well, they're finally sick of Cersei's shit.
Season 8 - Night King on his way to his new home at Dragonstone and to pick up any of Dany's leftover forces. Oh dear, the Iron Fleet ambushes them. Mountain mauls Missandei in front of Grey Worm. In the mad furore one of the dragons dies. Ships crash, absolute carnage. Night King and dead dragon sink into the deep sea. Pissed Off Dany Level 2 unlocked.
Dany and her remaining forces rolls up and Cersei has been overthrown by a peasant uprising. Dany wanted to break the wheel? Well, when push comes to shove is she really willing to give up her birthright? She says 'feck this', rolls in and takes the throne. Third sign that she's not quite all she's cracked up to be. She holds a trial by combat for Cersei, who wins thanks to the Mountain killing Grey Worm, but she overules it and turns Cersei and Mountain into roasted dragon dinner. Now Jaime is pissed, like really REALLY pissed. Dany plans to do the same to Jaime. Tyrion frees him. Dany imprisons Tyrion. Jon thinks Dany is seeing enemies everywhere now. You know where this is going... Oh, and something about there being fewer ravens coming to King's Landing recently, and it's getting bloody freezing.
Peasants start getting pissed because it's a harsh winter and there's still feck all food, Dany feels the walls closing in. Nobody to turn to. All allies are gone. Everyone thinks she's losing it. Jaime is preparing to take revenge. Jon confronts her. But.....
A tattered raven finally arrives from the northern tip of the Crownlands. Oh.... feck....
SURPRISE MUTHAfeckERS. Night King, with about half of the Crownlands zombie shuffling behind him, comes back in on his chilly dragon for round 2. King's Landing is basically flattened. Jaime choses duty over revenge, dies fighting off white walkers to protect some peasants who look on in awe that the arrogant Lannister isn't such a prick after all.
Dragons fly over the city in a massive brawl, all three feck each other up (and cause plenty of collateral damage to what's left of the city).
Dany mortally wounded by Night King. Jon gets his fight with Night King after all. Yay. Dragonglass in its body becomes dislodged, starts turning back into a human. Jon and Dany both dying in each others arms. Human Night King still alive. Time to die.
Dracarys. Night King confused. Why the feck is this dying woman saying Dracarys? What's that growling noise above me? Oh, feck. Messed up Drogon still alive. Big burny seagull smile. Dragonfire. Night King now a cheese toastie.
Jon lives. Doesn't want the crown. Dany died before he could say he was wrong about her. King's Landing is an absolute mess. Everyone's acted like a cnut. Decides to leave and never come back, hoping to find peace up North with the freefolk. Tyrion left to set up an elective monarchy and return to seven separate kingdoms like it was before Aegon's Conquest.
fecking hell I have too much time on my hands to write utter shite.
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Don't think accidentally killing all those people is enough of an outrage for Jon to kill Dany. That's the best endpoint for their characters, so Dany has to actually do something egregious enough to prompt that. The idea is that she's a victim of her family's tendency towards insanity, after all.
Also disagree with those saying Jon should be the one who kills the Night King and end up on the throne. That's far too stolid and dull a route to take, so much so that it's incongruous with the show generally. This was never a show where the heroic-but-wet lead saves the day and gets the crown.
Though that doesn't mean it then has to be a show where Arya kills the bad guy because she was able to jump past all the other bad guys for some reason. Or that Bran should become the king because we're told he apparently has the best story, even though the audience that actually watched the show was rarely calling out for more Bran.
They also changed the phrasing to make it look like it was their plan all along, but it wasn’t.
She did say they'll meet again, so GRRM must have had something planned for the two of them (assuming that dialogue was lifted from the books).
I don't know. If it's neither Jon or Bran, who should have ended up as king or queen? Or should the 7 kingdoms just have split?
Well GRRM probably has something planned for the other hot red priestess too, but that obviously doesn’t apply to the show.
You could still have it be Bran, just sell the reasoning behind it better. I'm sure it would ultimately be Bran in the books too but I doubt the way they'd reach that conclusion would feel so half-hearted.
I'm not sure that the characters even met each other in the books.
I agree he should have had everyone with a claim assasinated and then crawled up unto the throne Ivar style.
Bring on the leeches, is all I can say about that particular character.
I like it and liked reading it. I was tempted to do what i would do (with a few more episodes or seasons) but keep most of what D&D did but to flesh it out (and remove stupidity like going outside the wall just to give NK a dragon to capture a zombie in return)
I might do it later. But I remember thinking at one point, fantasy booking is easier said than done, but some of the stuff ive read with regards to GoT sounds sooo much better than what we had in the final season (as its more fleshed out). But some of them even do a rebooking of s7 and 8 and keep most of what happened .
I liked yours as well. We should sign up with HBO. We can call ourselves S&M.
I'm the same when I'm trying to write and I hit a creative block. I either rewrite shows I didn't like using their broadstrokes or shitpost threads on the Caf.
Yeah, M&S is taken I guess.
I just started rewatching the early seasons again. I forgot about how much screentime was taken up by whores.
When the dragon gently picks up dead Daenerys and flies off
Also surely dragon fire doesn’t melt steel chairs
Also surely dragon fire doesn’t melt steel chairs
It didn't melt the rock Jon Snow his behind...When the dragon gently picks up dead Daenerys and flies off
Also surely dragon fire doesn’t melt steel chairs
He's absolutely brilliant in Narcos too
This show is the definition of "What is dead, may never die" 
While the same thing crushed the biggest and strongest structure ever created in this world infused with ancient magic no less.
It was a zombie dragon. Different rules apply. Perhaps why Jon thought screaming at it was a good move.