Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

[Silva]

in the tv show tyrion's role is be the softener to deanerys battle tactics of burning shit killing feckers, he was hired because he has extensive experience and knowledge of the land she wants to conquer and wants his advice

he doesn't do this through bureaucratic means, he doesn't set battle rules, he doesn't create filing systems for the soldiers and he doesn't get involved in the training or the logistics of running the armies

he does have badly written conversations with daenerys where he asks her to do x or y, and every time she listens to him things go to utter shit, they lose ground, they lose battles and they lose men, you know, like shit advisors who need to be hanged do

in the show there are several types of hands shown off the top of my head:

Ned Stark, who acted as king due to the absolute boy Bobby B's lazyness
Davos Seaworth, who acted as an ambasador and advisor to Stannis
Tywin Lanister, who acted as general of the armies and turned the actual king into a puppet
Tyrion Lanister, who acted as pupeteer in Tywins stead and who acted as an advisor to Daenerys

in the books the role derives from OG's bestie, ya boy just needed a shoulder to cry on

but it's okay because our resident teacher knows all about the Mandarin bureaucracy and the source text having zero examples of tyrion being a bureaucrat, let alone a competent bureaucrat, doesn't matter

 

[Carolina Red]

Perhaps binging it the way you did might have contributed to your thinking.

Going back to what you said here... I talked about this point you made with a good friend of mine who watched the show as it was broadcast and we both think you might be onto something.

When watching it all at once, that could have an different effect on creating notions of what you want to see happen vs. taking what happens as it comes.

I watched it in between practices and grad school class and homework, so I really didn’t spend much time thinking about what I wanted to see come out of it and just focused my attention on what the writers gave me as I watched it.

 

[Man of Leisure]

Going back to what you said here... I talked about this point you made with a good friend of mine who watched the show as it was broadcast and we both think you might be onto something.

When watching it all at once, that could have an different effect on creating notions of what you want to see happen vs. taking what happens as it comes.

I watched it in between practices and grad school class and homework, so I really didn’t spend much time thinking about what I wanted to see come out of it and just focused my attention on what the writers gave me as I watched it.

I think it may play a part. My cousin did what you did and binged it all over the span of several weeks. He wasn't bothered at all by what I perceived as a fairly obvious dropoff in quality.

 

[Carolina Red]

I think it may play a part. My cousin did what you did and binged it all over the span of several weeks. He wasn't bothered at all by what I perceived as a fairly obvious dropoff in quality.

Seamlessly passing from one season to another as if it is just the next episode could play a role there.

I’d pick up on something like s4e8 then watch to s5e2 and stuff like that.

The seasons run together and it’s just one big 73 episode show.

 

[Silva]

maybe the bureaucracy happened off screen, tyrion creating a hellish means tested system for the dothraki to get their booze and whoring money and d&d just kinda forgot to put it in the show and that qualified him to make a mercenary master of coin

 

[Carolina Red]

Salon nails it...

https://www.salon.com/2019/05/07/game-of-thrones-fans-are-wrong-about-tyrion-lannister/

 

[Silva]

fans: the writing went to shit when d&d ran out of source material because they're not good at writing characters and dialogue to the same standard as the source text
salon: actually game of thrones is in a literary style so it makes sense

fecks sake

if they wanted to show the different characters it takes to win wars and run countries don't do it so badly, tyrion in the battle against stannis even where he almost lost did it in a tyrtionesque bold and ambitious manner, rather than the dulled figure we saw in later seasons

that this was meant to be tyrions story originally is only more condemnation of d&d, they took what was meant to be a show of different competences and turned into a man just becoming stupid

 

[Organic Potatoes]

maybe the bureaucracy happened off screen, tyrion creating a hellish means tested system for the dothraki to get their booze and whoring money and d&d just kinda forgot to put it in the show and that qualified him to make a mercenary master of coin

 

[Carolina Red]

It’s even more funny when you consider that Tyrion was master of coin at one point, which is another clearly bureaucratic position.

 

[Silva]

It’s even more funny when you consider that Tyrion was master of coin at one point, which is another clearly bureaucratic position.

it's even more funny when your clever boy spent that week as master of coin learning his mercenary doesn't know how interest works and makes him master of coin anyway, salon really nailed it, the problem wasn't his cringe dialogue, his character becoming one dimensional or even him suddenly becoming stupid, he was clearly in the wrong job under daenerys, he should have been her HR manager and in charge of hires

absolute genius at the non-war side of things

how is anyone meant to compete with this level of bureaucratic competence

it's mind blowing someone this clever and with such great judgement in the latter seasons didn't become king himself

 

[Carolina Red]

Spoiler

 

[dumbo]

Themes are for 6th grade book report.

I only saw that quote very recently. I fear I may have gone too easy on DD.

I can laugh at it though, because I'm not a Star Wars fan. If I heard these guys were put in charge of a thing that I cared about it would genuinely make me sad.

 

[Silva]

yes well done post a slightly offensive meme because you refuse to admit you're chatting complete shit

 

[dumbo]

You've been consistently the best poster in this thread.

Appreciate it you crazy.

 

[Silva]

I only saw that quote very recently. I fear I may have gone too easy on DD.

I can laugh at it though, because I'm not a Star Wars fan. If I heard these guys were put in charge of a thing that I cared about it would genuinely make me sad.

the best part about that quote is that they met on a post graduate literature course where they would have been talking about themes all the time

 

[Carolina Red]

yes well done post a slightly offensive meme because you refuse to admit you're chatting complete shit

Chatting shit?

Like saying there is no bureaucracy in GOT then incessantly posting that a character in GOT is a poor bureaucrat?

Is that an example?

 

[Silva]

Chatting shit?

Like saying there is no bureaucracy in GOT then incessantly posting that a character in GOT is a poor bureaucrat?

Is that an example?

which part of deanerys armies had even a semblance of beurocrasy, what did tyrion do that showed he was in any way involved in this? throughout the show the hand tells the other members of the council what to do and they do it, that's how ned did it, how tywin did, tyrion even as joffreys hand had other people do these things for him and during his first stint he had to get bailed out by daddy, during his second stint he fecked it up completely

so, what bureaucrat things did he do during seasons 5-8 that showed competence? he wasn't involved in the running of the unsullied, he wasn't involved in the running of the dothraki, he advised the queen to do shit battle tactics and get lose

even when he was in myreen he almost lost the city because he was shit and had to get bailed out by dragons

just awful

i'm only going on what i saw on the show, and what i saw was the hands of the kings and queens acting as advisors and tyrion was by a significant distance the one who most deserved the noose

seriously were we watching the same show? tyrions role with blonde bae wad shit all to do with bureaucracy and i'm still waiting for an example of his work that shows the growth you claimed

 

[Carolina Red]

...

he wasn't a bureaucrat, there was no fecking bureaucracy

Master of drains and cisterns (Casterly Rock)
Master of coin
Hand of the King/Queen

 

[Silva]

Tyrion’s character arc always had him as a misunderstood, angsty genius who finally finds his niche. The death of his lover and father also brings about the death of the foolish part of his nature, which was gradually happening anyway.

this was your claim, that tyrion found his niche in the latter seasons

and your reasoning was things he did in the earlier reasons

are you one of d&d?

 

[Carolina Red]

this was your claim, that tyrion found his niche in the latter seasons

and your reasoning was things he did in the earlier reasons

are you one of d&d?

He was a bureaucrat throughout the show.

He was even a bureaucrat from before the show’s timeline, as stated to Varys...


You quite simply apparently don’t know what the hell a bureaucrat’s job is.

 

[Silva]

...

yeah in danys armies, there wasn't, there was the unsullied and the dothraki, they were both run by generals and there was no bureaucracy - the armies did what daenerys asked the generals to do, not through bureaucratic means, but through militant organisation, they weren't filing papers and shit, they weren't organising through civilian means, they didn't have masters of coins paying them, they invaded cities they were aked to by the queen not the hand

we're talking about season 5-8 here, when d&d kinda forgot to write half the story, they didn't show any civilians control, tyrion didn't do shit and didn't have the growth you claim

if there was a bureaucracy in her armies i'd love to hear about it in detail, how it manifested in the show, what tyrions role was and how this makes him a candidate for anything but the noose

 

[Silva]

He was a bureaucrat throughout the show.

He was even a bureaucrat from before the show’s timeline, as stated to Varys...


You quite simply apparently don’t know what the hell a bureaucrat’s job is.

yes good job another thing from the early seasons which were good and no one is talking to you about because we don't have an issue with it

fecking hell dude

 

[Silva]

i really don't know how many times i have type the words seasons 5-8 before you understand that i'm talking about seasons 5-8

seasons 5-8

do you need any more help?

 

[Carolina Red]

we're talking about season 5-8 here

Like when Tyrion is the head administrator left by Dany to govern Mereen?

The government he sets up along with Varys, Grey Worm, and Missandei... that’s bureaucracy. And he was good at the peacetime aspect of it. That’s his niche, as was shown throughout. He’s great at the peacetime administrative work necessary for government.

He’s poor at wartime statecraft. That’s not his niche.

Not a difficult concept if you’re actually able to have a normal conversation...

 

[Balljy]

Going back to what you said here... I talked about this point you made with a good friend of mine who watched the show as it was broadcast and we both think you might be onto something.

When watching it all at once, that could have an different effect on creating notions of what you want to see happen vs. taking what happens as it comes.

I watched it all in one go from start to finish and don't get the fuss about the ending either. I mean, there were obviously individual scenes which showed the writing had headed a bit south such as a convict choosing the next king but I enjoyed the last few series and felt it wrapped it up fine.

I imagine waiting months / years between series probably builds expectations with time to think and discuss what could happen.

 

[Carolina Red]

I watched it all in one go from start to finish and don't get the fuss about the ending either. I mean, there were obviously individual scenes which showed the writing had headed a bit south such as a convict choosing the next king but I enjoyed the last few series and felt it wrapped it up fine.

I imagine waiting months / years between series probably builds expectations with time to think and discuss what could happen.

Yep. Agreed.

 

[Silva]

Like when Tyrion is the head administer left by Dany to govern Mereen?

the closest tyrion got to bureaucracy was when he ran meereen and he was awful at it

The government he sets up along with Varys, Grey Worm, and Missandei... that’s bureaucracy. And he was good at the peacetime aspect of it. That’s his niche, as was shown throughout. He’s great at the peacetime administrative work necessary for government.

was he? the city was nearly lost because he sucks at his job and:

even when he was in myreen he almost lost the city because he was shit and had to get bailed out by dragons

if you can only keep the peace for a month, you're not doing a good job

He’s poor at wartime statecraft. That’s not his niche.

can you please provide an example of him being good at peacetime statecraft? Maybe he appointed a second master of coin who knows how interest works?

Not a difficult concept if you’re actually able to have a normal conversation...

it would be an easier conversation if you could read

 

[Carolina Red]

it would be an easier conversation if you could read

Case in point.

 

[Silva]

Case in point.

in the future instead of writing i'll post shitty memes and ask the other person if they're okay when they point out i'm chatting shit, that's the real adult way, thanks teech

 

[Carolina Red]

in the future instead of writing i'll post shitty memes and ask the other person if they're okay when they point out i'm chatting shit, that's the real adult way, thanks teech

Some folks just enjoy having a casual conversation about a tv show. Who knew?

 

[Silva]

Some folks just enjoy having a casual conversation about a tv show. Who knew?

maybe tyrions growth into a competent peacetime bureaucrat was when he appointed Sam Tarly as grand maester despite better qualified surviving mastears having already been on the show. His knowledge of an extremely rare illness and a now extinct threat will surely make him the best doctor the king can have.

they really nailed this character transformation, all his decisions after the wars were bang on

 

[Massive Spanner]

Season 8 was a steaming pile of dung.

 

[Carolina Red]

maybe tyrions growth into a competent peacetime bureaucrat was when he appointed Sam Tarly as grand maester despite better qualified surviving mastears having already been on the show. His knowledge of an extremely rare illness and a now extinct threat will surely make him the best doctor the king can have.

they really nailed this character transformation, all his decisions after the wars were bang on

It’s an excellent small council, when you realize the point of it.

It is full of people who had to make their own way in life rather than have it handed to them. They will now be the ones deciding the fate of Westeros instead of the ego driven first sons who have a rather poor track record of running the government. It’s the “breaking of the wheel” realized.

 

[Carolina Red]

Season 8 was a steaming pile of dung.

From your perspective, what were you hoping for and where did it fall short?

 

[Silva]

It’s an excellent small council, when you realize the point of it.

It is full of people who had to make their own way in life rather than have it handed to them. They will now be the ones deciding the fate of Westeros instead of the ego driven first sons who have a rather poor track record of running the government. It’s the “breaking of the wheel” realized.

 

[Massive Spanner]

what were you hoping for

It to not be shit

where did it fall short?

Everywhere

 

[Carolina Red]

It to not be shit

Everywhere

Righto then

 

[MadMike]

Lads, to make an analogy, you’re discussing science with a flat-earther, anti-vaxxer here. It’s not gonna get you anywhere.

 

[Carolina Red]

Lads, to make an analogy, you’re discussing science with a flat-earther, anti-vaxxer here. It’s not gonna get you anywhere.

 

[Sigma]

So, I never had access to HBO until this summer... that means I just now watched Game of Thrones in its entirety over the course of the last month.

I really don’t see why people were losing their shit over Season 8.

Funny thing is I did the exact same thing as you. Hadn't watched it until about last month and binged watched it across about a week.

I thought it was great and the ending, although rushed and maybe not up to the standard of other seasons, didn't put me off it as a show (I still thought it was good - although could have been better).

Maybe its something to do with us being attached to it for a very short time compared to others, and so others had more time to think about what should happen and were more hyped up for it.