Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Dante said:
Touchy? Because I have different opinion to you? I'm probably not even in the top 10 most prolific posters here since the last episode aired.
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On the contrary, because you can't seem to handle other people having a different opinion to you.

I don't know who's most prolific, I haven't been taking notes, I've just noticed you getting your nose bent out of joint a number of times when people have criticised the show.
 
Rado_N said:
On the contrary, because you can't seem to handle other people having a different opinion to you.

I don't know who's most prolific, I haven't been taking notes, I've just noticed you getting your nose bent out of joint a number of times when people have criticised the show.
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Physician heal thyself.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Basically the entirety of S8 was not well received at all, and that will haunt how the show is viewed going forward. People will still see it as great television for the most part, but when you get a disappointing climax then the legacy will suffer.
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The final feeling towards something is usually the one that lasts.

There have been studies where people are put through either a quick and painful colonoscopy lasting 4-5 minutes, or one that starts with 4-5 painful minutes, same as the first one, and then at the end they do a less painful thing for ten minutes. The patients end up rating the longer colonoscopy as better because it wasn't painful in the end and that remains the lasting perception of the procedure when asked afterwards.

It's pretty much the same mechanism as the one that makes women want to get pregnant again after going through labour, because the lasting impression of it isn't the pain, but the happiness of having the baby.
 
DouLou said:
The beginning, middle and end of the series also have vastly different quality of writing as well, which I think is what most people can't deal with...
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Precisely. This season was a bit of a trainwreck which in itself also kept deteriorating in terms of writing quality and finished off with three woeful episodes.

Some people did argue at the time that Breaking Bad had some poor moments as is the case with any peice of entertainment as it's very subjective and you're going to get a variety of views. However, the strong consensus was that the show managed to maintain its quality and finished strongly to boot. GoT has declined pretty considerably and this last season will no doubt hurt it's standing in the annals of TV dramas. I think it'll be considered well below the very best. You can't have a piss poor finish and pretend to be one of the greatest.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
finished strongly to boot.
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It made no sense whatsoever for the nazis to leave one barrell with walt after the kind of guys they were shown to be. Take that out and none of what followed happens. Hardly excellent story telling.

Cranston carried the mess around him for most part and especially at the end. Gave some stellar scenes like that call to skylar and most just ignored the crap like that machine gun and what not in light of his performance.
 
Moby said:
It made no sense whatsoever for the nazis to leave one barrell with walt after the kind of guys they were shown to be. Take that out and none of what followed happens. Hardly excellent story telling.

Cranston carried the mess around him for most part and especially at the end. Gave some stellar scenes like that call to skylar and most just ignored the crap like that machine gun and what not in light of his performance.
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Yeah it doesn't really compare a near entire car crash of a season that was season 8 of GoT, nor does it change the fact that the last season and ending was received well (BB).

The outrage here exists and is understandable.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
People keep saying this, but it was nowhere near to the same extent as the backlash against Game of Thrones. Some people had an issue with Breaking Bad but it was mostly a minority, the majority were very pleased with the ending and the final seasons, the opposite is true of Game of Thrones. The consensus is pretty much (from critics and viewers) that S8 was a rushed and poor ending, so it's not really the same as a small number of people raising issues with the finale of Breaking Bad, which most people enjoyed.

Basically the entirety of S8 was not well received at all, and that will haunt how the show is viewed going forward. People will still see it as great television for the most part, but when you get a disappointing climax then the legacy will suffer.
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Not to mention Breaking Bad often fast forwarded. GoT had set itself up for six seasons as taking its time to tell the story.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Not to mention Breaking Bad often fast forwarded. GoT had set itself up for six seasons as taking its time to tell the story.
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Breaking Bad was pretty damn slow at times and had quite a few pointless plotlines that went nowhere. The plane crash in season two springs to mind, it was built up throughout the season and ended up being a total let down with no real effect. Then there's Marie shoplifting, Hank's rocks, anything involving Walt Jr and Skylar being insanely annoying. It definitely maintained its quality better over the five seasons than GoT did and a big part of that is due to the writers actually giving a shit throughout but it certainly wasn't consistently brilliant like some paint it to be.
 
Can we talk about the books now?

A Clash of Kings has a bit where Arya says she likes watching Gendry polish his helmet.
 
Jack Bauer > John Snow

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Mr Pigeon said:
Can we talk about the books now?

A Clash of Kings has a bit where Arya says she likes watching Gendry polish his helmet.
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I'm sure everyone remembers this beautiful passage...

Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.
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Massive Spanner said:
Breaking Bad was pretty damn slow at times and had quite a few pointless plotlines that went nowhere. The plane crash in season two springs to mind, it was built up throughout the season and ended up being a total let down with no real effect. Then there's Marie shoplifting, Hank's rocks, anything involving Walt Jr and Skylar being insanely annoying. It definitely maintained its quality better over the five seasons than GoT did and a big part of that is due to the writers actually giving a shit throughout but it certainly wasn't consistently brilliant like some paint it to be.
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MINERALS.

It's probably unfair in general to compare BB with GOT as they're totally different genres, but S5 of BB was only 'weak' in comparison to the towering S4 (and arguably S4)

That they managed to wring another great season out of it after the epic end of S4 was commendable in itself.

I'm also fine with the ending of the show. BB was always a bit cartoony, in spite of the epic acting and character development, so it was quite fitting.

S8 of GOT was just a pish end to a great show, written by writers who didn't seem to care anymore. BB season 5 was clearly written and performed by guys still in love with the show.
 
Rado_N said:
On the contrary, because you can't seem to handle other people having a different opinion to you.

I don't know who's most prolific, I haven't been taking notes, I've just noticed you getting your nose bent out of joint a number of times when people have criticised the show.
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It's those blasted book people!

Burn the books, all the books!
 
Rado_N said:
Oh which side do the book readers fall? I'm guessing they think the show sucks balls?
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Probably.

I listened to the audio books whilst at work and I personally liked the show and what it did early on. Some parts were even much better than the books imo. Of course, then it went to shit, but at least it was still epic in scale and incredibly well made.
 
Rado_N said:
Oh which side do the book readers fall? I'm guessing they think the show sucks balls?
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Probably depends on if they read the books before watching the show, or after. I read them after season 5 which I thought was pretty bad already. But reading the books made me appreciate the amazing job they did in 1-4 even more. Some bizarre decisions made after that in 5 and 6 (esp. with Dorne and Iron Islands), and the last two seasons have been a bit of a write-off, but I think I’ll look back on the show a lot more favorably in a few years time.
 
2cents said:
Probably depends on if they read the books before watching the show, or after. I read them after season 5 which I thought was pretty bad already. But reading the books made me appreciate the amazing job they did in 1-4 even more. Some bizarre decisions made after that in 5 and 6 (esp. with Dorne and Iron Islands), and the last two seasons have been a bit of a write-off, but I think I’ll look back on the show a lot more favorably in a few years time.
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In the same position as you, read them after season 5.

The Dorne stuff and its loose threads in the books is very messy so while it was done poorly in the show I struggle to think how they could've made it work. People would lose their shit, for the wrong reasons, if Quentyn Martell's storyline was a part of the show.
 
Shane88 said:
The Dorne stuff and its loose threads in the books is very messy so while it was done poorly in the show I struggle to think how they could've made it work.
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Include Arianne and base the story around her, and have Doran actually scheming rather than being the pussy he is in the show. And take the Sand Snakes seriously as characters instead of turning them into some lame badass girl power ninjas. Oh and include Darkstar. No need for Quentyn obviously.
 
2cents said:
Include Arianne and base the story around her, and have Doran actually scheming rather than being the pussy he is in the show. And take the Sand Snakes seriously as characters instead of turning them into some lame badass girl power ninjas. Oh and include Darkstar. No need for Quentyn obviously.
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After reading about Arianne I'm surprised she wasn't in the show. Big titted seductive scheming beauty. That's prime HBO bait.
 
2cents said:
Include Arianne and base the story around her, and have Doran actually scheming rather than being the pussy he is in the show. And take the Sand Snakes seriously as characters instead of turning them into some lame badass girl power ninjas. Oh and include Darkstar. No need for Quentyn obviously.
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Including the Sand Snakes front and centre was the problem. They only work in the books because you see them through Arianne's eyes and she looks up to them, they seem cool but you never have to find out much about them as they are mostly in the background or viewed through her eyes. Making them the main players in Dorne just seemed like they were going for what seemed cool without thinking about why it was cool or how it worked.

Dorne could have worked, but it needed Arrianne and it needed Doran to be an actual character. It needed the scheming, the rebelliousness and Arrianne being smacked back into her place by Doran's superior scheming. It needed time though that it might never have been able to get. In the end it died in the shadow of Oberyn, they tried to make 4 mini Oberyn's with his wife and daughters instead of an actual plot.
 
do.ob said:
I don't see how the writing in the Sopranos was ever close to being as stupid as the final seasons of GoT. There are other shows I would put ahead of GoT as well (Twink Peaks, Deadwood, The Shield, Fargo for example), but the consensus on them isn't as wide as the four mentioned previously.
The briliant thing about GoT is their budget and the books, but I think there's more to a top tier show.
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At least half of the second season of Twin Peaks was genuinely abysmal and the ending of The Return was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen. Great show but very flawed overall.
 
do.ob said:
I don't see how the writing in the Sopranos was ever close to being as stupid as the final seasons of GoT. There are other shows I would put ahead of GoT as well (Twink Peaks, Deadwood, The Shield, Fargo for example), but the consensus on them isn't as wide as the four mentioned previously.
The briliant thing about GoT is their budget and the books, but I think there's more to a top tier show.
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I’m sure it wasn’t, but I don’t see how that automatically makes The Sopranos a superior show. What I saw of it couldn’t match the quality of season 4 of GoT.

I’m also not really sure about your last sentence. It’s great that, as the show progressed and grew in popularity, the budget allowed them to do justice to some big moments, but those are only big moments because of the story. Story is king. The show never looked better than in it’s final season, yet it’s vastly inferior to the earlier work.

I haven’t read them, but in what way is the best thing about the TV show the books? And what more are you looking for in a top tier show exactly?
 
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