Future planning - Replacing Carrick

Devil may care said:
It needn't be a like for like replacement but none of the CM's we have right now can dictate a game with their passing, we will need to add that kind of player whether he is an AM or a DM.
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As he says, the trick is to change not replace. Schneiderlin can't dictate a game with his passing, but he dominates defensively in a way Carrick doesn't, and meanwhile Herrera definitely can run a game, albeit from higher up the pitch. So between them they provide everything you need from a midfield, without either of them actually being a Carrick replacement.

In the long term, you'd struggle to find a young player more like Carrick in style than Sean Goss, and he seems to be one of the kids Van Gaal has taken a shine to, so worth keeping an eye out for him.
 
Brightonian said:
As he says, the trick is to change not replace. Schneiderlin can't dictate a game with his passing, but he dominates defensively in a way Carrick doesn't, and meanwhile Herrera definitely can run a game, albeit from higher up the pitch. So between them they provide everything you need from a midfield, without either of them actually being a Carrick replacement.

In the long term, you'd struggle to find a young player more like Carrick in style than Sean Goss, and he seems to be one of the kids Van Gaal has taken a shine to, so worth keeping an eye out for him.
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I don't think Herrera is the answer, he's an AM for a 3 man midfield but doesn't have the all round passing game to dictate a game and is rash for a 2 man midfield. Schneiderlin as the workhorse might well be able to partner a proper playmaker like Gundogan though.

I've only seen Goss play twice but I've heard the comparisons, although some posts here from the U21 watchers seemed to indicate he's not likely to make it at United.
 
Gundogan would really sort us out. Have a feeling he could go to City though - their midfield is atrocious and in dire need of investment.
 
Devil may care said:
I've only seen Goss play twice but I've heard the comparisons, although some posts here from the U21 watchers seemed to indicate he's not likely to make it at United.
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The thing with Sean Goss is althought he has improved this season and having some great tools in his locker, he rarely boss the midfield.Matty Willock did it in a few games after Goss got injured and Harrop has always been classy at U21s level.Goss has been unfortunate with his injury though, he would likely already got couple of appearances at this stage if he stayed fit.

In terms of style the Carrick comparison is valid though but we can also say that McNair is similar in terms of style to Evans and they're not really at the same level at the moment.

I would not say that we necessarily need a Carrick replacement.I would love to have a strong runner box-to-box in midfield like Yaya Toure so that Mata/Januzaj/Pereira/whoever else as the number 10 can be the creator.Probably the first team staffs also agree hence the chase for Renato Sanches.
 
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Depends how we're going to set up. I think MS/AH as a base two DM's is not the answer, I'd much rather a play maker or anchor player in behind them but then you sacrifice the #10 for a much fluid and mobile box to box system. Definitely not going to happen under Van Gaal but maybe another manager? Who knows.
 
khoazany said:
The thing with Sean Goss is althought he has improved this season and having some great tools in his locker, he rarely boss the midfield.Matty Willock did it in a few games after Goss got injured and Harrop has always been classy at U21s level.Goss has been unfortunate with his injury though, he would likely already got couple of appearances at this stage if he stayed fit.

In terms of style the Carrick comparison is valid though but we can also say that McNair is similar in terms of style to Evans and they're not really at the same level at the moment.

I would not say that we necessarily need a Carrick replacement.I would love to have a strong runner box-to-box in midfield like Yaya Toure so that Mata/Januzaj/Pereira/whoever else as the number 10 can be the creator.Probably the first team staffs also agree hence the chase for Renato Sanches.
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What is Goss injury? I thought after his inclusion on tour we'd see a bit more of him but it's been such an odd season, we've gone from not even using the kids in Capitol 1 cup matches, to having to feature them in PL games.

The thing with a player like Gundogan is that he'd give that running ability but also the passing you need in Europe, I think the lack of a proper deep lying playmaker has been part of City's terrible CL performances over the last few years.
 
Verrati, Kroos and Gundogan are the top players that can replace Carrick. However, Gundogan is the only one realistic but I think he will go to City.

For now, I would start Fosu-Mensah some games in that position. Also it seems that Renato Sanches would be our new midfielder for the next season. If they fulfill their potential, we could have a good midfielder plus Schneiderlin, Herrera, Blind and Schweinsteiger.
 
Fer said:
Verrati, Kroos and Gundogan are the top players that can replace Carrick. However, Gundogan is the only one realistic but I think he will go to City.

For now, I would start Fosu-Mensah some games in that position. Also it seems that Renato Sanches would be our new midfielder for the next season. If they fulfill their potential, we could have a good midfielder plus Schneiderlin, Herrera, Blind and Schweinsteiger.
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Sanches was awful last night.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Sanches was awful last night.
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I'm really hoping our links to him are as reliable as the ones to other Benfica players in the last few years, he's athletic, fast and powerful but he's not what we need right now as he's a work in progress, we need a bit of proven quality.
 
This club has no future planning, they had 20 years of service from Scholes and Giggs, didnt look for one suitable world class replacement despite having years to. Had Ferdinand and Vidic for almost 10 years each, and didnt really replace them, Ronaldo was replaced with Valencia and obertan.

This whole club is disgusting me with their absolute ineptitude and disregard for the results of the club on the pitch. Every single one of the top clubs in Italy, Spain, and Germany, replace departing world class players, with ones of an almost equal or higher level, no pussy footing about, they get their player quickly and straight away. And then you have us, with absolutely none of that. Its the most basic thing for replacing players, but we just seem to have this scattergun approach, where we just buy for the heck of it
 
Red Dreams said:
I think Blind can replace Carrick. We need a solid partner for Smalling. Pity Jones is a sick note.
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If we can pull Gundogan out of the sky, we must. But we can go with a midfield three of Herrera/Schneiderlin/Blind with Schweinsteiger and Fosu-Mensah for cover. Maybe even Carrick for mop up duty if we can start taking control of matches in the 70th minute.

Two holding mids won't be necessary (and I argue unduly conservative, contributing to our demise too often) if we can bring in a polished gem CB, which we haven't had for several seasons.
 
Blind is too slow and weak to be the #6 in the PL, and putting him in a midfield 3 with Herrera and a blunt object like Schneiderlin would make us about as uncreative as it gets.
 
Sweinsteigger is Carrick replacement, he won't last much longer though, also Schneiderlin will take over his role in the future, ppl panic here but we dont need direct replacement, there are not many getable ball playing deep laying midfielders out there. Dont mind giving TFM a chance there
 
Red Dreams said:
would love to get a proper box to box player. If we can get a player who is even 50% of Roy keane, I would be more than satisfied.
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I guess this is the reason we are looking at Renato Sanches, he's way too raw IMO but he plays that type of game and there aren't many box to box CM's these days, they tend to be either DM's or AM's.

m1y2 said:
Sweinsteigger is Carrick replacement, he won't last much longer though, also Schneiderlin will take over his role in the future, ppl panic here but we dont need direct replacement, there are not many getable ball playing deep laying midfielders out there. Dont mind giving TFM a chance there
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Schneiderlin isn't nearly good enough on the ball to be a key cog in our midfield, especially if we harbor any interest in Europe. I could see us grooming TFM under Schweini across the next two seasons but we'd need top play a proper 3 man midfield to cover for Schweini's age and limited mobility, in the same way Juve put Vidal and Pogba in with Pirlo to be his legs.
 
Devil may care said:
I guess this is the reason we are looking at Renato Sanches, he's way too raw IMO but he plays that type of game and there aren't many box to box CM's these days, they tend to be either DM's or AM's.



Schneiderlin isn't nearly good enough on the ball to be a key cog in our midfield, especially if we harbor any interest in Europe. I could see us grooming TFM under Schweini across the next two seasons but we'd need top play a proper 3 man midfield to cover for Schweini's age and limited mobility, in the same way Juve put Vidal and Pogba in with Pirlo to be his legs.
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as I said, we dont need direct replacement, Schneiderlin is a bit inconsistent passer but has the passing range and is young enough to develop in that matter, his game is different though, Sweiny has a year, maximum two to cover for Carrick, he's also quite different but the most similar from the lot, neither city or arsenal has that kind of player, we dont need him either, we just need quality..

I like the look of Andre Gomes from Valencia though, could be made into that kind of player IMO
 
m1y2 said:
as I said, we dont need direct replacement, Schneiderlin is a bit inconsistent passer but has the passing range and is young enough to develop in that matter, his game is different though, Sweiny has a year, maximum two to cover for Carrick, he's also quite different but the most similar from the lot, neither city or arsenal has that kind of player, we dont need him either, we just need quality..

I like the look of Andre Gomes from Valencia though, could be made into that kind of player IMO
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City don't but they have Yaya who offers a different kind of creative option from midfield, and I think one of the reasons City have struggled in the CL is the lack of a proper ball playing CM that can dictate the tempo. Arsenal have been lacking without Carzola next to Coquelin and Schneiderlin is like Coquelin, or like Mascherano with Alonso, we need a CM who is great on the ball, at 26 Schneiderlin is not going to morph into that, he is what he is and has a function, but whether it's deep lying or more of a #8, we need a midfield playmaker to link midfield and attack.
 
We can't sign Verratti so M'villa is the best possible option. Ruben Neves wouldn't be a bad shout either.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Replacing a holding mid with box to box mids isn't going to help us, those are players you'd sign to play with Carrick, not instead of him.
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You put Gundogan with Schneiederlin and it's the same difference rather than looking for a direct Carrick clone.
 
I like Rabiot alot and he should be attainable. Haven't watched PSG as much this season but I think he's a brilliant prospect. Pretty versatile aswell.
 
I can see Carrick and Fellaini leaving in the summer, so we would definitely need a new midfielder.

If we play with 3 midfielders (433)...
  • Where do you think it's the best position of Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Fosu-Mensah and Blind?
  • Where Januzaj and Mata would fit in that formation?
  • Which quality player is available to play as defensive midfielder with good passing range?
  • Would you prefer a player like Isco/Barkley or Kante?
 
Fer said:
I can see Carrick and Fellaini leaving in the summer, so we would definitely need a new midfielder.

If we play with 3 midfielders (433)...
  • Where do you think it's the best position of Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Fosu-Mensah and Blind?
  • Where Januzaj and Mata would fit in that formation?
  • Which quality player is available to play as defensive midfielder with good passing range?
  • Would you prefer a player like Isco/Barkley or Kante?
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What about Herrera?
 
Spielmacher said:
Why is that?
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Sorry, only seen your reply just now.

Number of reasons really. Anderlecht have had a very difficult season. Very young team without leaders. Tielemans seems the one player the manager doesn't have much confidence in. When he gets a chance, he doesn't play well either. Seems a mental thing. If you guys claim he's going to be Carrick's replacement, don't bother, he's not up to the task yet. He should stay in Belgium for another 2-3 years and start being a regular.
 
roykeane19 said:
This club has no future planning, they had 20 years of service from Scholes and Giggs, didnt look for one suitable world class replacement despite having years to. Had Ferdinand and Vidic for almost 10 years each, and didnt really replace them, Ronaldo was replaced with Valencia and obertan.

This whole club is disgusting me with their absolute ineptitude and disregard for the results of the club on the pitch. Every single one of the top clubs in Italy, Spain, and Germany, replace departing world class players, with ones of an almost equal or higher level, no pussy footing about, they get their player quickly and straight away. And then you have us, with absolutely none of that. Its the most basic thing for replacing players, but we just seem to have this scattergun approach, where we just buy for the heck of it
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Rooney called out the club for not being ambitious and was slaughtered . He was actually right. He went about it the wrong way and did it to leverage more money but he was on to something .
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Rooney called out the club for not being ambitious and was slaughtered . He was actually right. He went about it the wrong way and did it to leverage more money but he was on to something .
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Yep he was correct, but he's a total arsehole for the way he handled it.

We have lacked ambition for years in the transfer market. Woodward came along and we became muppets.
 
a_devil_inside said:
What about Herrera?
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Because in a midfield of 3, Herrera wouldn'tplay as defensive midfielder but here:
CDM
Herrera - CM
​
Schweinsteiger could play as CM or in the Pirlo role. Schneiderlin is defensive mid, but maybe his energy would be more useful as CM (more like Vidal than Pirlo). Fosu-Mensah could be also defensive midfielder, but does he have a good passing range to play there?
Would it be better to play Mata/Januzaj as wide forwards or in a midfield of 3?....

That's why I didn't include Herrera and I was more interested on the other players.
 
Fer said:
I can see Carrick and Fellaini leaving in the summer, so we would definitely need a new midfielder.

If we play with 3 midfielders (433)...
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  • Where do you think it's the best position of Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Fosu-Mensah and Blind?
Schweinsteiger deeper, Schneiderlin as the box-to-box midfielder. Blind should continue in defence. Fosu-Mensah, it's too early to tell.
  • Where Januzaj and Mata would fit in that formation?
Don't think Januzaj deserves to start and he needs to fight for his place. Mata as the CAM.
  • Which quality player is available to play as defensive midfielder with good passing range?
Xhaka, Jorginho, Fernando, Tolisso, Gonalons, Gündogan

Would love Xhaka, Güngodan and Tolisso, but it's unlikely. We should at least get one of them.
  • Would you prefer a player like Isco/Barkley or Kante?
The former.
 
roykeane19 said:
This club has no future planning, they had 20 years of service from Scholes and Giggs, didnt look for one suitable world class replacement despite having years to. Had Ferdinand and Vidic for almost 10 years each, and didnt really replace them, Ronaldo was replaced with Valencia and obertan.

This whole club is disgusting me with their absolute ineptitude and disregard for the results of the club on the pitch. Every single one of the top clubs in Italy, Spain, and Germany, replace departing world class players, with ones of an almost equal or higher level, no pussy footing about, they get their player quickly and straight away. And then you have us, with absolutely none of that. Its the most basic thing for replacing players, but we just seem to have this scattergun approach, where we just buy for the heck of it
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You say it like it's the easiest thing in the world. How do you replace players like Scholes and Giggs? We replaced Van Der Sar. We tried to replace Ferdinand and Vidic with Smalling and Jones. In juries got in the way of that one and all the further planning in the world can't change that. The biggest problem has been replacing a manager who knew what he was doing.
 
Schneiderlin is Carricks replacement. We need a ball playing midfielder to compliment him.
 
roykeane19 said:
This club has no future planning, they had 20 years of service from Scholes and Giggs, didnt look for one suitable world class replacement despite having years to. Had Ferdinand and Vidic for almost 10 years each, and didnt really replace them, Ronaldo was replaced with Valencia and obertan.

This whole club is disgusting me with their absolute ineptitude and disregard for the results of the club on the pitch. Every single one of the top clubs in Italy, Spain, and Germany, replace departing world class players, with ones of an almost equal or higher level, no pussy footing about, they get their player quickly and straight away. And then you have us, with absolutely none of that. Its the most basic thing for replacing players, but we just seem to have this scattergun approach, where we just buy for the heck of it
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AC Milan and Inter say hello.
 
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