Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Adnan]

Wonder what he actually mean by that?

I get the impression that EtH, like Klopp and Conte, is really good at playing to their players strenghts. With Pep, and maybe Xavi, I sometimes feel that players to a bigger extent have to adjust to their style of football.

He basically said that de Jong hadn't developed physically since he was 18 due to not putting in the work. (I assume he meant in the gym). He then made reference to Messi, Xavi and Iniesta who are smaller than de Jong but were physically strong due to strengthening their upper body. I personally don't think that is a issue, and it's something that can be ironed out.

I haven't watched Xavi's Barcelona yet, but from what Hunter is saying, it seems like Xavi is extremely measured in his approach to positional play that he wants each player to occupy their respective zones on the pitch without giving too much leeway. Ten Hag gave de Jong creative freedom at Ajax and paired him up with Lasse Schone to maintain a defensive balance without the ball.

 

[Banana Republic]

Frenkie de Jong is not the player we should be prioritising at the moment and if the stories about him not wanting to come to OT are even half true, we should be steering well clear.

We need at least one reliable, defensive MF.
Preferably two in the 1st team squad, as we just don’t have any ball winners, or players who can stamp their physical authority on a game.
He doesn’t fit the bill.
FDJ would be a great asset for us in a balanced squad, but if his heart isn’t in it……….Next !

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[davidmichael]

It seems unlikely that he'll come here. He seems like the kind of signing Bayern would go for.

Bayern already have Goretzka, Kimmich and Sabitzer whilst just signed Gravenburch and are after Laimer so that’s five players for two spots and that’s if they get rid of Roca and Tolisso who aren’t exactly bad options to have as sixth and seventh choices so I don’t see where De Jong fits in at Bayern unless he’s taking a spot off of either Kimmich or Goretzka ?

I wouldn’t be surprised if Laporta is giving out bits to the media to drum up interest in De Jong and ramp up the price, if Pogba goes to PSG as expected then I don’t see anyone else in for De Jong as no one else has a need for him like we do as everyone else has a settled midfield already.

 

[Hammondo]

What team will sign both Pogba and FDJ in one window? None.

It doesn't matter they aren't identical, Juve or PSG would only go for one of them and adjust their plans around that.

Yes they would only go for one, but they will have a requirement and only one will fit it properly.

 

[Hammondo]

Sounds a bit like another Pogba, a 6 that's needs an actual 6 next to him to do the defending...

Hes nothing like him, hes closer to Pirlo.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

There are no deals confirmed yet. Just talks and speculation.
If Lewandowski is leaving, Salihamdzic needs to present a big name. Neither Laimer nor Gravenberch are

That'll be an attacker most likely

 

[RedorDead21]

Hes nothing like him, hes closer to Pirlo.

wouldn’t carrick be a better comparison?

 

[Hammondo]

wouldn’t carrick be a better comparison?

Hes not as defensive as Carrick, hes not that anchor.

 

[Jimmy Greenhoff's Chest]

Frenkie de Jong is not the player we should be prioritising at the moment and if the stories about him not wanting to come to OT are even half true, we should be steering well clear.

We need at least one reliable, defensive MF.
Preferably two in the 1st team squad, as we just don’t have any ball winners, or players who can stamp their physical authority on a game.
He doesn’t fit the bill.
FDJ would be a great asset for us in a balanced squad, but if his heart isn’t in it……….Next !

.

And if we do get a reliable, defensive MF, who are they going to play next to? We need FdJ (or similar) as well as a DM, both are priorities.

 

[Cassidy]

Hes nothing like him, hes closer to Pirlo.

Who also needed an actually DM next to him. So again same issue

 

[Hammondo]

Who also needed an actually DM next to him. So again same issue

Well we need multiple midfield players, just getting a DM won't fix anything.

 

[Cassidy]

Well we need multiple midfield players, just getting a DM won't fix anything.

Missing the point really.

 

[roonster09]

Who also needed an actually DM next to him. So again same issue

Its not same issue, football is a team game and you need players to compliment each other. We need a defensively strong midfielder and we also need a ball carrier, someone who can run the game. We can't pick one or the other.

 

[Jam]

Yes they would only go for one, but they will have a requirement and only one will fit it properly.

You think PSG has specific requirements beyond “big name pls”? No.

Juve more likely to plan, but they’ll both go for one or the other and just plan accordingly around that.

These clubs aren’t looking for a very specific type of player, more so a broader midfield role and will work around what is available.

 

[davidmichael]

Frenkie de Jong is not the player we should be prioritising at the moment and if the stories about him not wanting to come to OT are even half true, we should be steering well clear.

We need at least one reliable, defensive MF.
Preferably two in the 1st team squad, as we just don’t have any ball winners, or players who can stamp their physical authority on a game.
He doesn’t fit the bill.
FDJ would be a great asset for us in a balanced squad, but if his heart isn’t in it……….Next !

.

We actually NEED BOTH types of player and for either to work as we need them too they’d need to play alongside as such, De Jong needs a ball winning press machine with bundles of stamina alongside him but we need someone who can dictate the game from deep so our need as has been for years is both types of midfielder especially in an ETH 4-2-3-1 set up.

 

[Teja]

Its not same issue, football is a team game and you need players to compliment each other. We need a defensively strong midfielder and we also need a ball carrier, someone who can run the game. We can't pick one or the other.

Agree with this.

We definitely need a playmaker like De Jong. We also need a destroyer. I think given the troubles we've had at playing it out the back for the past 2-3 years, a playmaker like De Jong is extremely important - probably even more important than a DM.

Our models should be Kroos + Modric + Casemiro, Thiago + Henderson + Fabinho etc.

My version would be something like De Jong + Bruno + Rice.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Frenkie de Jong is not the player we should be prioritising at the moment and if the stories about him not wanting to come to OT are even half true, we should be steering well clear.

We need at least one reliable, defensive MF.
Preferably two in the 1st team squad, as we just don’t have any ball winners, or players who can stamp their physical authority on a game.
He doesn’t fit the bill.
FDJ would be a great asset for us in a balanced squad, but if his heart isn’t in it……….Next !

.

I think I'll go with Ten Hag on this one

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Frenkie de Jong is not the player we should be prioritising at the moment and if the stories about him not wanting to come to OT are even half true, we should be steering well clear.

We need at least one reliable, defensive MF.
Preferably two in the 1st team squad, as we just don’t have any ball winners, or players who can stamp their physical authority on a game.
He doesn’t fit the bill.
FDJ would be a great asset for us in a balanced squad, but if his heart isn’t in it……….Next !

.

ETH wants 2 midfielders anyway.

 

[Dempsey19]

Will stunt the development of McTominay. I'd rather we stay away.

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[roonster09]

Agree with this.

We definitely need a playmaker like De Jong. We also need a destroyer. I think given the troubles we've had at playing it out the back for the past 2-3 years, a playmaker like De Jong is extremely important - probably even more important than a DM.

Our models should be Kroos + Modric + Casemiro, Thiago + Henderson + Fabinho etc.

My version would be something like De Jong + Bruno + Rice.

Rice is unrealistic, he cost way too much.

 

[Cassidy]

Its not same issue, football is a team game and you need players to compliment each other. We need a defensively strong midfielder and we also need a ball carrier, someone who can run the game. We can't pick one or the other.

I said he has the same issue Pogba has, and its the same. Pogba needed a strong defensive midfielder to play with at United if he is to play 6. So does FDJ
No one is saying we can pick one or the other.
The only thing that is being said is that the same as Pogba, FDJ is not a 6 in reality and will need s strong defensive 6 to play with (again similar to Pogba)
If you disagree he can't play 6 on his own fine.

 

[RedRonaldo]

A no. 6 who needs freedom to roam and doesn’t do much of defending… sounds like Pogba

 

[tidraKS]

Will stunt the development of McTominay. I'd rather we stay away.

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[RedorDead21]

Who also needed an actually DM next to him. So again same issue

so there could be a need for Phil Jones still?

 

[JPRouve]

I said he has the same issue Pogba has, and its the same. Pogba needed a strong defensive midfielder to play with at United if he is to play 6. So does FDJ
No one is saying we can pick one or the other.
The only thing that is being said is that the same as Pogba, FDJ is not a 6 in reality and will need s strong defensive 6 to play with (again similar to Pogba)
If you disagree he can't play 6 on his own fine.

I see what you mean but I have to say that it winds me up when people frame it as an issue.

 

[romufc]

Agree with this.

We definitely need a playmaker like De Jong. We also need a destroyer. I think given the troubles we've had at playing it out the back for the past 2-3 years, a playmaker like De Jong is extremely important - probably even more important than a DM.

Our models should be Kroos + Modric + Casemiro, Thiago + Henderson + Fabinho etc.

My version would be something like De Jong + Bruno + Rice.

Obviously De Jong and Rice would cost us over £200m, so don't think its feasible.

Can Fred not do the destroyer role? Really we don't need a DM as such unless you get a DM like Casemiro or Fabinho who can do both roles.

If we can somehow manage to get Frenkie, he usually sits deep in possession and gets it of the CB's so playing as a DLP and Fred can play a similar role like he has under Ralf.

Out of possession we need a ball winner, Fred can do that knowing that he still has Frenkie behind him.

Obviously in an ideal world I want an upgrade on Fred but we have to be realistic in terms of what we can do this summer considering the holes in our squad.

 

[roonster09]

I said he has the same issue Pogba has, and its the same. Pogba needed a strong defensive midfielder to play with at United if he is to play 6. So does FDJ
No one is saying we can pick one or the other.
The only thing that is being said is that the same as Pogba, FDJ is not a 6 in reality and will need s strong defensive 6 to play with (again similar to Pogba)
If you disagree he can't play 6 on his own fine.

I see what you mean but I have to say that it winds me up when people frame it as an issue.

What @JPRouve said, except it doesn't wind me up. I just find it silly that people expect one player to do so much in this era.

 

[Cassidy]

I see what you mean but I have to say that it winds me up when people frame it as an issue.

I guess the point really is keep Pogba and spend the money on what we need. Too late for that now I get it, but its been an expensive waste of a player and I hope we don't make the same mistake again.
Kalvin Philips isn't going to cut it, and we actually going to need 2 DMs... because 1 can get injured.

I'm not convinced it makes sense to sign such a specialist player

 

[JPRouve]

I guess the point really is keep Pogba and spend the money on what we need. Too late for that now I get it, but its been an expensive waste of a player and I hope we don't make the same mistake again.
Kalvin Philips isn't going to cut it, and we actually going to need 2 DMs... because 1 can get injured.

I'm not convinced it makes sense to sign such a specialist player

Pogba is injury prone and it's not getting better, there is also a poor dynamic with the fanbase, so I don't see how keeping him is a good idea. And De Jong is no more specialist than most player, he isn't defensively weak and has never really played alongside a great DM. Pogba also had pretty clear weaknesses when it came to positioning and defensive readings which isn't the case for De Jong.

And I really don't follow your point or logic because your plan would rely on getting two players that are presumably not specialists and presumably both good or very good with and without the ball, that can control and a game and destroy the opposition midfield play, those players are rare and it's doubtful if we could even get one of them.

 

[Cassidy]

Pogba is injury prone and it's not getting better, there is also a poor dynamic with the fanbase, so I don't see how keeping him is a good idea. And De Jong is no more specialist than most player, he isn't defensively weak and has never really played alongside a great DM. Pogba also had pretty clear weaknesses when it came to positioning and defensive readings which isn't the case for De Jong.

And I really don't follow your point or logic because your plan would rely on getting two players that are presumably not specialists and presumably both good or very good with and without the ball, that can control and a game and destroy the opposition midfield play, those players are rare and it's doubtful if we could even get one of them.

If that's the case then good. Wasn't clear to me that was the case.

No reading the post I replied to about FDJ it seemed to me that he has major defensive weaknesses similar to Pogba hence my comment. But if he doesn't then that's fine.

We still need to sign or need in the squad this summer FDJ + 2DMs (because he needs to play next to a defensive 6, and we have zero in the squad)

 

[Hammondo]

You think PSG has specific requirements beyond “big name pls”? No.

Juve more likely to plan, but they’ll both go for one or the other and just plan accordingly around that.

These clubs aren’t looking for a very specific type of player, more so a broader midfield role and will work around what is available.

I am not sure about PSG since their recruiting has been all over the place since they became rich, but Juve will absolutely be looking for a certain type of player. Any club that knows what they are doing have a specific kind of player in mind.

 

[Hammondo]

Missing the point really.

Please explain it then.

 

[Hammondo]

Agree with this.

We definitely need a playmaker like De Jong. We also need a destroyer. I think given the troubles we've had at playing it out the back for the past 2-3 years, a playmaker like De Jong is extremely important - probably even more important than a DM.

Our models should be Kroos + Modric + Casemiro, Thiago + Henderson + Fabinho etc.

My version would be something like De Jong + Bruno + Rice.

There is a balance in the midfield you suggest, but I don't think they play at all similar football, they don't really suit each other in terms of style.

 

[JPRouve]

If that's the case then good. Wasn't clear to me that was the case.

No reading the post I replied to about FDJ it seemed to me that he has major defensive weaknesses similar to Pogba hence my comment. But if he doesn't then that's fine.

We still need to sign or need in the squad next summer FDJ + 2DMs (because he needs to play next to a defensive 6, and we have zero in the squad)

He has no major defensive weakness, unlike Pogba De Jong has been used as a CB. And he has played plenty of games next to players that aren't particularly strong defenders in Schone or Van De Beek, neither are defensively better than Fred. Of course it would be a good idea to strength that part of our midfield but it wouldn't be due to someone like De Jong and it would be true if we added Tchouaméni.

 

[charlenefan]

Ok so explain why in ETH's quote he said that De Jong role is not ''lone'' no 6 as he leaves the middle of the pitch too often? Do you see what I'm saying? Because if De Jong leaves his spot or roam from his spot too often then he's not really a sitter or the holding one in double pivot but it's Schone the one played more the disciplined role.



Basically, De Jong played as no 6 in double pivot alongside another no 6 Schone. Except, De Jong is more a ''libero'', which he was given so much freedom to roam everywhere, while Schone played the disciplined role to hold his position more to accomodate De Jong's freedom to roam.

Oh well we knew we needed 2 CM's anyway

 

[LARulz]

How I see it, United want him. Barcelona are willing to let him go. De Jong actually doesn't want to leave, but feel pressured into leaving. De Jong actually doesn't want to go to United.

Great then...

Sounds a bit like Di Maria situation

 

[JPRouve]

Sounds a bit like Di Maria situation

Di Maria was willing to leave if Madrid didn't offer him the contract that he thought he deserved. My understanding based on early reports in France and Spain is that his wife preferred Paris while he was happy with either PSG or United, when things went bad with LVG he had no arguments to stay, his wife didn't want to be in England and he didn't want to work with LVG.

So unless the same applies to De Jong I wouldn't make a parallel.

 

[Teja]

There is a balance in the midfield you suggest, but I don't think they play at all similar football, they don't really suit each other in terms of style.

Yea I wasn't very convinced with Rice in that midfield but couldn't think of any other names. I think Rice has developed his attacking / passing game significantly this season and he's a complete midfielder now. That's why I threw him in there.

 

[Hammondo]

Yea I wasn't very convinced with Rice in that midfield but couldn't think of any other names. I think Rice has developed his attacking / passing game significantly this season and he's a complete midfielder now. That's why I threw him in there.

Also De Jong likes possession football, lots of short passes moving the opponent around, bruno is nowhere near that patient, hes not really big into slower buildup.

 

[Banana Republic]

The idea we need a DM next to a deep lying play maker and that’s job done, is just too simplistic and a recipe for continuing to be overrun.

The most important defenders in any modern team, are the whole of the midfield.
Not just one player, with a multi-role creative sidekick.
The front, or attacking players have to do their part too.

Our existing squad problem is that we don’t have players with sufficient defensive attributes, if any at all.
We are a physically weak team.
If FDJ can perform the multI-role CM task, alongside a strong DM and other players who can do the physical hard miles, then he’d be a good shout. Providing he wants to come and will give it 100% mentally.


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