No it isn’t because a lot of it depends on the team setup and so it’s contextless. Rodri for example ranks poorly in terms of pressures, tackles, interceptions and blocks. Rice ranks poorly for pressures, tackles, blocks and aerials won. I don’t think anyone seriously thinks these players are bad defensively.
Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap
- Thread starter davidmichael
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Is it just me or does Guendouzi stack up favourably in most areas vs FdJ?
Manchester United is tier 2 according to some.
It's all so transparent
We leak we are gonna walk away unless they lower the price
They leak he's staying and they are getting £700m somehow
It's all brinkmanship and the Muppets just willingly ride the coaster
We leak we are gonna walk away unless they lower the price
They leak he's staying and they are getting £700m somehow
It's all brinkmanship and the Muppets just willingly ride the coaster
One club desperate for the money but commanding a high price as not wanting to appear desperate, the other club desperate for the player but commanding a low price as not wanting to give in to the others desperation for money. I wonder who will flinch first. I imagine either Barca will solve their issues elsewhere and he will stay whilst we’re preparing a bid still, or we’ll just end up paying the asking price weeks after we could have got him in and settled for the same amount.
Either way I’m once again sceptical of the way we seem to be doing business.
Either way I’m once again sceptical of the way we seem to be doing business.
Some crap their pants before they get on the rollercoaster
some moan so much so the queue time is too long before going on the rollercoaster
some moan that we only have £2 and the roller coaster costs £1, we’d be better spending on 4 arcade games at 50p each
What's concerning about FDJ isn't just the extremely low scores on all these defensive actions but that literally every other Barcelona midfielder, including the ones who play in very similar positions to him like Gavi, Pedri, and Nico, are much more active defensively. Its actually pretty shocking when you compare his statistics to the other midfielders within the same side.
Unless you want to make the case that when FDJ is in the game Xavi gives him and only him a special remit not to pressure or tackle anybody, then its something to be considered.
The player he looks the most like defensively from a statistical standpoint is Granit Xhaka, just an extremely passive player without the ball who probably understands positioning well but does very little to disrupt play.
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Fairgrounds, not for everyone
I'm surprised he even has a tier with a name like that
And there’s that, people who feel safer riding the same old shitty bus to nowhere
We will end up with Fellaini and Leighton Baines. Oops excuse me, Fellaini only 
According to some yeah. We are obviously elite though.
What Ten Hag has said regarding De Jong's best position
“He is a wanderer, an adventurer, he's always on the move, like a shark. With the ball, often, but also without the ball. So if you put him on 6, he's away too often.
“But you need to give him freedom, otherwise you can't the best out of him. It wasn't an easy puzzle, so I dediced to play with two number 6s and only one attacking mid. And in this way, we can also dominate the half space, and force opponents to choose.”
"Eventually I decided to play with two 'number 6' players on the pitch. Once I did this you saw how much better he became on the pitch, and how much better he made the whole team play and especially the attackers.”
“He leaves the middle of the pitch too often for that,” Ten Hag said in 2019 when asked if De Jong could play in a lone no. 6 role. “And if you don't give him the freedom to go forward, you won't get the best out of his game.”
Looks to me like we'd be sticking with the double pivot if he comes here. We'd also need another midfielder with positional discipline when De Jong goes wandering forward. Mctominay has terrible positioning and Fred likes running around
“He is a wanderer, an adventurer, he's always on the move, like a shark. With the ball, often, but also without the ball. So if you put him on 6, he's away too often.
“But you need to give him freedom, otherwise you can't the best out of him. It wasn't an easy puzzle, so I dediced to play with two number 6s and only one attacking mid. And in this way, we can also dominate the half space, and force opponents to choose.”
"Eventually I decided to play with two 'number 6' players on the pitch. Once I did this you saw how much better he became on the pitch, and how much better he made the whole team play and especially the attackers.”
“He leaves the middle of the pitch too often for that,” Ten Hag said in 2019 when asked if De Jong could play in a lone no. 6 role. “And if you don't give him the freedom to go forward, you won't get the best out of his game.”
Looks to me like we'd be sticking with the double pivot if he comes here. We'd also need another midfielder with positional discipline when De Jong goes wandering forward. Mctominay has terrible positioning and Fred likes running around
Which says everything you need to know about stats when misinterpreted!
Commercially and historically yeah. But elite teams don't play in the EL. Not sure why some people get so sensitive about accepting that the best players aren't tripping over themselves to join us at the moment
The transfer window always brings out the absolute worst in the caf. The pandemic window of summer 2020 was a real low IMO.
The numbers say that McTominay is miles better than Frenkie defensively:
https://fbref.com/en/players/d93c2511/Scott-McTominay#scout_summary_MF
Vs
https://fbref.com/en/players/1bacc518/Frenkie-de-Jong#scout_summary_MF
I don’t get the hate for McTominay on the Caf. He’s a squad player, forced into playing a position he isn’t well suited for (DM, he’s more box-to-box) with a midfield partner that doesn’t have much discipline (Fred) and is a pretty inaccurate passer. It’s like criticizing Darren Fletcher for not being world class. Fletcher was 3rd or 4th option at CM for us, scored some big goals, was Man United to the core. McTominay is the same sort of player for me. I’ve never questioned his desire or professionalism. He’s not good enough to be in the first 11 of a United team, but he’s still valuable as a squad player.
Exactly. All this fuss over a glorified Xhaka.
Guendouzi has actually been pretty good for Marseille from what I've read from Marseille fans. There are certain stats that need context but stats like progressive passes, progressive carries, pressures etc are pretty accurate
I’ve always though Guendouzi was decent. I never understood what happened with Arsenal… he criticized the leadership or something, and they just gave him away. Seemed like he was all over the pitch whenever I watched them.
Meh if the stats tell you that Guendouzi is on a par with De Jong then we are analysing the stats wrong. One, he’s a completely different player. Two, he’s a massively inferior player no matter what he’s doing in france.
It’s just a data point. I’ve watched plenty of Barca, and de Jong is class on the ball — the stats back that up, so should we throw those out too?
In my opinion, in order to get the best out of FDJ, we’ll need a classic 6 to sit beside him and cover. Ten Hag has also said as much.
The defensive numbers are skewed because Barca have a lot of possession, but that doesn’t mean Frenkie is good enough defensively to hold up next to Fred or Scotty, especially against top PL sides.
He’s massively inferior because, in your professional opinion as a top scout, you think so?
Stats are just one tool to help evaluate a player, and there are others, yes. But just ignoring stats because you don’t like what they say is strange. You start getting into climate change deniers, flat earthers, etc.
Again, Neves is looking pretty good right now, some of you might have to change your tune
Give me some Eriksen on a free as well.
it's time muppets got aboard the Ruben Neves train, the Portuguese Maestro! Loves a tackle, has a great shot and can put a ball on a sixpence. The all-round midfielder.
Choo Choo!
nobody wants this Barca Flop De Jong anyway who isn't even Proven in the Premier League! Neves is Prem Proven and that is what this team needs. De Jong is very slight and would probably get bullied on the Prem it isn't for wussies, Neves is strong and never gets bullied.. Wolves won the midfield battle at Old Trafford
From what I read somewhere, yes. But only used it 10% of games if I remember correctly.
Move on to where? And who . That's the issues here not the money, we need quality players and FDJ is one of them this transfer is only on through ETH nothing else will pull FDJ from Barca he's doesn't have to leave. Barca need to sell and we need to buy so just fecking pay something in between the value . Suits both parties. Not happing here because the player is reluctant on leaving .
Completely agree.
Work off a budget every month and when my washing machine I had for years broke , I didn't go and buy a fecking 1970 second hand twin tub, I bought a Top of the range one with a 10 year guarantee on it. Utd stump up the cash for FDJ and your getting a guarantee top class CM not a fecking twin tub that has a good wash now again.
Football has moved on your DM doesn't need to be big mean destroyer anymore you could have a deep lying playmaker and two supporting center midfielders it all depends on the system and how energetic and technically minded your players are.
I mean just look at City, they play Rodri, KDB and Bernardo Silva and completely outplay teams even away from home.
I mean just look at City, they play Rodri, KDB and Bernardo Silva and completely outplay teams even away from home.
Thankfully I can move on from windows, once they are done they are done. Some harbour bitterness for years like you’d run over their dog
If we sign him great, but this has all the markings of us chasing the player then the likes of City or PSG swooping in and signing him.
Hope this isn't the Moyes transfer window. Getting Fellaini dearer than they could a few weeks before. OK window has just opened the scum look like they've thrown all there eggs in one basket, maybe UTD are waiting to pounce on the ones they want?
Feck I'm optimistic about it arnt I. Fills you with confidence this club does. FDJ will he or won't he ..
Feck I'm optimistic about it arnt I. Fills you with confidence this club does. FDJ will he or won't he ..
Don't trust it. Don't trust any of it. Different year, different staff, same story. I doubt even Ten Hag is who he seems.
I don't think he's sticking his neck out much there by saying it's reached an impasse is he.
If ten hag really wants him just pay up really do not care if we pay 70 million pounds or 60
There's no need to apologize. My point is, i don't think we can fix too many problems in one transfer window. So, if in the end its not possible to sign De Jong, i wouldn't be against to bring Eriksen. He would provide different possibilities. But i dont think Ten Hag would do that. Even if we sign Eriksen, he is gonna need another specific midfield profile.
if we view Eriksen as an alternative to FDJ and not as a completely independent transfer, we've completely lost our mind.
De Jong is on holiday. United's new kit isn't released until early July. This has gone on too long for there to be nothing in it. Fecking shambles if we don't sign him now tbh, I think we will but it probably won't be announced any time soon.
Dear diary week 1 of transfer window 2022.I convinced myself that this is the summer utd will start their climb back to the top,thought with so many people going,Ed ,pogba Jesse etc and with Eric coming in..we could go any lower.. but if we actually don't sign de Jong after spending 3weeks now linked to him it'll show me that I'm a idiot and to stop actually having hope. That no matter who is working at this joke of a club there will be no change. And the only change I should believe is going to happen is me giving up my love of utd and taking up other hobbies where my dreams don't get crushed and my weekends aren't wrecked by 5 o clock Saturday glazers if ye are reading this, please sell,ye broken me. Please sell to the richest person with a great history of ethics etc so we can rise to the top and knock pool and city back onto their holes.
glazers if ye are reading this, please sell,ye broken me. Please sell to the richest person with a great history of ethics etc so we can rise to the top and knock pool and city back onto their holes.- Status