95%I guess not.
Did they get Nate Silver to do that calculation?
Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap
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Did they get Nate Silver to do that calculation?
He plays box to box. that's an 8. He doesn't sit in the 6.
Not again.
I Think I've seen enough oh from his junior years till now. At Ajax he was never box to box he was a number 6 with freedom to move forward. Ajax play with such a high defense that he was often in the opposition half. Barca tried to use him as box to box because Busquets was their preferred DM. If we forget about number classification lets say that at Ajax he was the DM
Would you look at that, it's Groundhog Day again already!
Wasn’t he played in a double pivot though to be clear? As in he would be the Jorginho and we’d need the Kante still? Or we’d have Fred in that role?
It makes sense considering we've got a classic no10 in Bruno and ETH liked 4-2-3-1 as much as he does 4-3-3.
Could he be our answer to de bruyne? 
Waiting for someone to come on and moan that Mitten just makes things up.
Mitten just makes things up
Could he be our answer to de bruyne?
no, he's nothing like him
I mean our star player, catalyst, guy to build a team around. genuinely world class
Don’t see it. Good cog in the wheel though.
fair. 60mil for a cog in the wheel is a interesting one.
He's more comparable to Gundogan.Could he be our answer to de bruyne?
How much Rodri and most of city’s cogs like Kyle Walker cost?
He’s a great player but by no means is he the main man no matter how much a fan would want to force it.
Slim Frank
Are you listening to yourself? "He's a #6 with the freedom to go forward". Dude, that's an 8
Could he be our answer to de bruyne?
Yes and no, that's probably the correctest and most succinct answer!
Frenkie has a very distinctive style/function (which muddies the water when you compare him with a lot of other midfielders) and possesses the talent to be a rhythm-dictating architect for both midfield and defense (hence someone you proactively build the team and its underlying organization around) — however, he won't make a whole lot of direct final-third contributions (so his influence won't be as cutting-edge as De Bruyne's...who is the principal offensive playmaker of his team). As an example, for the 2018—19 Ajax cohort (which represents Frenkie's zenith) he was definitely one of the biggest stars and instrumental to large portions of their play (reflected in the Ballon D'or where he ranked 11th with 31 votes...the highest placement in the entire team), but Tadić and Ziyech were the clear cut difference-makers in attack with 59 goals and 47 assists between the two of them in all competitions (and de Ligt and Blind were admirable in defense).
In a truly great, balanced and cohesive collective (which should obviously be the aim for ten Hag and United in the years to come), he could be one of the stars and a foundational tone-setter but not the transcendental star. Like 2019—20 Bayern Munich where Kimmich was awesome but not head and shoulders above the likes of Lewandowski, Müller, Neuer et cetera in terms of primacy. Or Zidane's Madrid teams with Modrić...and Cristiano, Marcelo, Ramos, Kroos, Benzema, Carvajal, Casemiro, Bale in key moments, and so forth. Or indeed United's 1998—99 team where you had a constellation of stars with Beckham, Yorke, Keane, Stam, Cole, Giggs. That's what we should aspire to be, once again: a well-coached and hard-working bunch with an abundance of difference-makers — where even if you limit one or two, you will have you hands full with the others (who can all leave an indelible mark on the game).
dutchred is right, mate; de Jong is not someone who should be classified as a nominally positioned #8. Defensive midfielders, liberos or deep-lying playmakers with the freedom to go forward are not necessarily #8s. Beckenbauer (the greatest libero of all) was not a #8, even though he had the freedom to pick-and-choose his moments to go forward as a defender at the peak of his powers. Sammer was not a #8, even though he had the freedom to surge forward and start counter-attacks for Dortmund and Germany as a defensive spare. Redondo was not a #8 for Madrid, even though he had the freedom to go forward while vacating his defensive midfield station (which was temporarily manned by someone else). Frenkie is not exactly like them and by no means as accomplished of a defensive presence, but he does fit into the general category of deeper positioned players with the freedom to incessantly probe and affect spaces in front of them (while also moving around a lot to pose numerical advantages, circulate the ball and create the fabled playing-against-12-men effect).Are you listening to yourself? "He's a #6 with the freedom to go forward". Dude, that's an 8
This is a decent representation of that, against high-caliber opposition as well — frequently forming a variable rhombus with de Ligt, Onana and Blind (often the first to release pressure on the centerbacks and distribute possession), sometimes filling in for Tagliafico, drawing opponents towards the ball and freeing teammates further forward, and intelligently pulling the strings from a deeper starting position than a conventional #8:
Spielverlagerung's Players of 2019: Frenkie de Jongde Jong regularly split the two centre-backs during build-up from the goalkeeper, as many #6’s do, but his locomotion separates him, both on and off the ball. In the diagram below, you can see his superior speed relative to those around him, allowing him to execute actions that many #6’s can’t. Despite the plaudits for de Jong’s attacking display, his defensive performance against Juventus was also impressive, winning 9 out of 15 duels for the ball. Ajax’s high press was so compact that the #6’s were situationally as advanced as the strikers in pressurising Juventus’ defenders.
What? The number just refers to the positions he likes to occupy/start in, not his role on the pitch. A #6 can be the creative force and the #8 can be the defensive solidity depending on the player, it doesn't have to be a DM as a 6. Pirlo was a 6 but he sure as hell wasn't a DM.Are you listening to yourself? "He's a #6 with the freedom to go forward". Dude, that's an 8
The poster is right. I don’t know what are laughing about ? And no, a 6 going having some freedom isn’t an 8. Sorry but seems like positions and their roles are very fixated in your head and wrongly too. I don’t know since when you started watching football but the above poster gave very good examples especially about Sammer. If you had watched him you would know too.Are you listening to yourself? "He's a #6 with the freedom to go forward". Dude, that's an 8
Take Declan Rice for example not like for like to de Jong but let’s see Rice’s roles for England and West Ham. He plays as DM for both but there is a difference. With England he is much more rigid, holds his position and rarely ventures forward. With West Ham he still plays as a 6 but with much more freedom to the point it would seem he is an 8 but he is still the 6 for West Ham.
I'm not doubting the fact that Manchester United is interested in him, my doubt lays with whether or not he is interested in Manchester United
@Invictus getting into this thread! That's when you know this is a serious player. Would really appreciate if United persist with de Jong, knowing he would he a bonus and trust that EtH will put him in a position to succeed and greatly benefit the team.
Make no bones about it, Barca will make him expendable because they are focused on other players such as Lewandowski and players who will command a lower wage, but come with a transfer fee.
Make no bones about it, Barca will make him expendable because they are focused on other players such as Lewandowski and players who will command a lower wage, but come with a transfer fee.
A new day and and yet another opportunity to restart the debate if he's a #6, #6,5, #8 or a false #9
A new day and and yet another opportunity to restart the debate if he's a #6, #6,5, #8 or a false #9
At least we know that he will be tall enough.
I still think McT can do a good job (like that of Fletcher and Butt) if he has great players next to him. Pogba is no Roy Keane or Paul Scholes, or even Paul Ince for that matter
I can't remember the last time we had someone who could actual dictate the pace we play at. One of my major criticism over the past year (or two or three) is we played, for large periods, at the tempo dictated by pour opponents, rather than setting the pace ourselves. Now i want FdJ even more
What is better?
His Libero like falling in to a back 3 to bring the ball forward - or
His passing?
I’m just asking because whilst I watched him enough, I’m still unsure if I can call him a deep lying playmaker like Pirlo or Scholes. He’s not is he?
His Libero like falling in to a back 3 to bring the ball forward - or
His passing?
I’m just asking because whilst I watched him enough, I’m still unsure if I can call him a deep lying playmaker like Pirlo or Scholes. He’s not is he?
There is absolutely nothing more tedious than arguements about what number a player plays in. It’s such absolute nonsense that has no base in any kind of reality.
to be fair, who is? The two you mention were world class for long stretches of their careers
Why would Barcelona want Martial? They have Aubameyang and will sign Lewandowski. Both much better than Martial?
He's more a short passer with the occasional through ball and uses his dribbling ability to retain possession and beat the press.
Football manager to blame. We need the days of left mid, centre mid or right mid back to simplify this place.
Football manager doesn’t use these terms except “false 9”! It’s more stuff like inverting the pyramid and generally trying way too hard to sound clever. De Jong is just a deep creative midfielder, so you can expect him to get forward sometimes, like so many players from the past you can compare it to without having debates on if someone is half a 6 and half an 8 does that make them a 7, but then they’d be more of a right winger than Mussolini.
It’s a system that is entirely subjective so why do folk try to use it as if it will work? Utter tosh.
We should just agree he is a 6 and a half.
I’d argue ‘dimaria vibes’ and ‘too short for X position’ are more tedious btw.
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