Frenkie De Jong - Part 3?

[Drz]

Naah... I am not sure he has the minerals to deal with the pressure at United.
If he were coming in as a squad option, for say no more than 150k a week, and 20mil fee, I may change my mind.

 

[Redplane]

Naah... I am not sure he has the minerals to deal with the pressure at United.
If he were coming in as a squad option, for say no more than 150k a week, and 20mil fee, I may change my mind.

Man would come from one of the most politically charged clubs in the world, having played along MSN, from an environment where distractions are plentiful and he couldn't handle the pressure at United? That's the last of my concerns about him. Whether he is a good fit tactically is a discussion worth having however.

 

[Rozay]

No it’s not. If he comes here, he will be one of the biggest earner of the club while he hasn’t proved nothing here.

We did that the last 10 years. Haven’t you learn nothing ? It’s like the Woody’s strategy all over again.

We have to go back at the basics.

So don’t try to make a fool of me with your « emotional rhetoric » while you are creaming yourself about a new shiny overpaid footballer who rejected us already.

I just hope the Disneyland era is done for good.

What on earth are you talking about? You are holding it against a player who has never played for us that they ‘haven’t proved anything here’. That makes no sense.

And when you’ve done with your ‘shiny toy, creaming yourself’ deflection nonsense, you can still explain why De Jong is a mercenary and why he would lack hunger or desire to prove himself.

 

[Rozay]

Naah... I am not sure he has the minerals to deal with the pressure at United.
If he were coming in as a squad option, for say no more than 150k a week, and 20mil fee, I may change my mind.

What gives you that impression, out of curiosity? He’s excelled at the biggest club in Holland, and has also done so at a huge club in Spain. He stood up as a key performer for Holland in the World Cup too.

Barcelona were open to selling him and he showed great character to fight his way back and earn huge plaudits and become their key midfielder. Whatever he does next with his career, we will see, but I’m seeing a lot of narratives here which don’t seem to have much basis tbh.

 

[golden_blunder]

A lot of emotional posting here

 

[Someone]

If it's a reasonable deal, then why not? We just need to know early on if he wants to come or not. We don't need to get dragged into another saga between him and Barca.

 

[Rozay]

If it's a reasonable deal, then why not? We just need to know early on if he wants to come or not. We don't need to get dragged into another saga between him and Barca.

Which is completely fair.

 

[Don_Johan14]

I doubt it. It’s more about Barcelona wants him gone because his salary is too high and has clause that keep increasing every year. All of these news were probably orchestrated by Barcelona so by any luck there are clubs to put a bid and hoping the player can be convinced to leave.

Barcelona offered him a renewal three months ago and he still hasn't replied.

Anyone follow Barca?

They’ve obviously not been great this year but they’ve had a good few injuries (including De Jong) that can’t have helped.

How has he performed?

Sofascore gives him a 7.30 (but Antony also has a 6.98 or something somehow so I have trust issues with that site).

Defensively he is a horror in every aspect.
In playmaking he holds the ball up very well with his back to the ball but slows it down a lot.
I don't think he fits in with Barcelona's style. He doesn't have the qualities to be a pivot or to be an inside player.

With Ten Haag he has shown he can play at a high level. With a double pivot.

Forget logic. I’m on that train! Ticket please!

• Barca manager leaving, new manager might not play his style
• His wages are a lever possibility for Barca
• They like greenwood, possible swap

I don't see Greenwood signing for Barcelona to play at left winger.
On the right is Lamine Yamal and Barcelona are very interested in signing Estevao.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Barcelona offered him a renewal three months ago and he still hasn't replied.



Defensively he is a horror in every aspect.
In playmaking he holds the ball up very well with his back to the ball but slows it down a lot.
I don't think he fits in with Barcelona's style. He doesn't have the qualities to be a pivot or to be an inside player.

With Ten Haag he has shown he can play at a high level. With a double pivot.



I don't see Greenwood signing for Barcelona to play at left winger.
On the right is Lamine Yamal and Barcelona are very interested in signing Estevao.

If he goes to Barca, he's a nine

 

[BabySinclair]

Mainoo and De Jong would be

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Oh my god... I want this to happen SO SO SO badly...

 

[Redfrog]

What on earth are you talking about? You are holding it against a player who has never played for us that they ‘haven’t proved anything here’. That makes no sense.

And when you’ve done with your ‘shiny toy, creaming yourself’ deflection nonsense, you can still explain why De Jong is a mercenary and why he would lack hunger or desire to prove himself.

Your were deflecting it with your emotional bullshit.
The guy is earning 500k a week.
Do you think it’s a good idea to bring someone who is earning that much ?

He is so good, his club want to get ride.

You have learn nothing from the last 10 years ?

If he was on 150k a week, I won’t have nothing against it.

My point is, I don’t want us to make the same mistakes as before in bringing overpaid players who are not that special.

 

[Rozay]

Your were deflecting it with your emotional bullshit.
The guy is earning 500k a week.
Do you think it’s a good idea to bring someone who is earning that much ?

He is so good, his club want to get ride.

You have learn nothing from the last 10 years ?

If he was on 150k a week, I won’t have nothing against it.

My point is, I don’t want us to make the same mistakes as before in bringing overpaid players who are not that special.

I have deflected nothing. Do you expect De Jong’s salary at his next club to be 500k p/w? Are you unaware of why he earns that much currently?

And perhaps try watching football. It is on the pitch that players show whether they are good or not. And De Jong has shown himself to be very good on the football pitch.

Your arbitrary personal valuation of his wages means nothing. Especially within the context where you have absolutely no idea what his wage demands at his next club would be anyway.

Your point is an obvious one. No fan, of any club, ‘wants’ their club to bring in overpaid players who are not special. However, it is an irrelevant point, or an at least premature one at this stage on the basis that: a - De Jong happens to be a world class midfielder, and b - there has not yet, at this stage, been even a suggestion of what the potential numbers of this deal would look like for you to be so strongly opposed to them!

 

[Red in STL]

A lot of emotional posting here

If by that you mean "a lot of shite" then I agree

 

[Redfrog]

I have deflected nothing. Do you expect De Jong’s salary at his next club to be 500k p/w? Are you unaware of why he earns that much currently?

And perhaps try watching football. It is on the pitch that players show whether they are good or not. And De Jong has shown himself to be very good on the football pitch.

Your arbitrary personal valuation of his wages means nothing. Especially within the context where you have absolutely no idea what his wage demands at his next club would be anyway.

Your point is an obvious one. No fan, of any club, ‘wants’ their club to bring in overpaid players who are not special. However, it is an irrelevant point, or an at least premature one at this stage on the basis that: a - De Jong happens to be a world class midfielder, and b - there has not yet, at this stage, been even a suggestion of what the potential numbers of this deal would look like for you to be so strongly opposed to them!

Yeah, right. He is so good we are the only club linked with him.

He won’t be paid that much but you are looking at 300k minimum for a guy who his actual club want to get ride.

He is a good player but not special. So I think he is too expansive. And he is linked with us just because ETH has no idea who to buy but his former players. It didn’t work that well so far.

I think the club has to take the hard way and stop paying over the odds. That’s the only way we will attract players wanting success on the football pitch and that we will stop being skinned by every club in the transfer market.

So we agree to disagree.

The galactico approach has to stop.

 

[Stadjer]

Yeah, right. He is so good we are the only club linked with him.

He won’t be paid that much but you are looking at 300k minimum for a guy who his actual club want to get ride.

He is a good player but not special. So I think he is too expansive. And he is linked with us just because ETH has no idea who to buy but his former players. It didn’t work that well so far.

I think the club has to take the hard way and stop paying over the odds. That’s the only way we will attract players wanting success on the football pitch and that we will stop being skinned by every club in the transfer market.

So we agree to disagree.

The galactico approach has to stop.

He is so good that he is very expensive and that most clubs cant afford him. Barcelona doesnt want to get rid, he is a starter for them. The only reason Barcelona would let him go is because he is too expensive for them. He is a special player, try finding a player that does what de Jong does at the same level. Have you watched Frenkie play often?

De Jong also isnt a galactico at all. He always seems very down to earth, always looking for things he can improve in his game and i think he is pretty boring off the pitch. If he would sign for Manchester United he comes to play football and will try to win things. He wont just come for a big pay day.

 

[El Jefe]

You’d think he’s the only midfielder who can keep the ball and recycle possession in tight spaces the way some go on about him.

I’d rather go for a less established player who won’t come here on crazy wages.

 

[Stadjer]

You’d think he’s the only midfielder who can keep the ball and recycle possession in tight spaces the way some go on about him.

I’d rather go for a less established player who won’t come here on crazy wages.

He also adds carries/line breaking dribbles to just keeping the ball and recycle possession. There might be other players who can do what de Jong does but only a few are at his level or better at it.

Look at the difference Martinez makes to our play with his ability to move the ball out off the back. De Jong is even better at it and also adds carries to it.

I dont have an issue with a less established and cheaper player because i already gave up on the Frenkie dream but your post make it seem like de Jong is hardly a special player. De Jong isnt only a keep the ball and recycle possession just like how Paul Scholes wasnt only a keep the ball and recycle possession.

 

[El Jefe]

He also adds carries/line breaking dribbles to just keeping the ball and recycle possession. There might be other players who can do what de Jong does but only a few are at his level or better at it.

Look at the difference Martinez makes to our play with his ability to move the ball out off the back. De Jong is even better at it and also adds carries to it.

I dont have an issue with a less established and cheaper player because i already gave up on the Frenkie dream but your post make it seem like de Jong is hardly a special player. De Jong isnt only a keep the ball and recycle possession just like how Paul Scholes wasnt only a keep the ball and recycle possession.

I know what he’s capable of doing with the ball I just think people seriously overrate the impact his game has.

When it comes to Frenkie he’s one of those players people just harp on about the couple of things that he’s good at and completely ignore the parts of his game that are quite poor. You still have people trotting out that he’s a world class player when he clearly isn’t.

The major issue when it comes to him to begin with is knowing how to build an effective midfield trio or pairing with him in it. To this day people still debate how he should be played and what position suits him best.

What he adds in his ability to keep the ball and be press resistant is also a bit redundant at times because his delays his next action which really doesn’t lead to much. So while it’s pretty teams can get back in shape, Moussa Dembele was quite similar in that regard he could dribble a whole midfield then dally with the ball after but at least he was a physical beast off the ball. De Jong is still lightweight and not particularly effective off the ball if he isn’t making slide tackles.

I just think we should try and buy players who are ready to come here with something to prove.

 

[Redfrog]

He is so good that he is very expensive and that most clubs cant afford him. Barcelona doesnt want to get rid, he is a starter for them. The only reason Barcelona would let him go is because he is too expensive for them. He is a special player, try finding a player that does what de Jong does at the same level. Have you watched Frenkie play often?

De Jong also isnt a galactico at all. He always seems very down to earth, always looking for things he can improve in his game and i think he is pretty boring off the pitch. If he would sign for Manchester United he comes to play football and will try to win things. He wont just come for a big pay day.

Can you give me the lottery numbers please ? As I see you can see what a guy you don’t know will do in the future.

A galactico is a very expansive player, not someone who isn’t down to earth.

Anyway, I heard the same sort of stuff about Sancho, Di Maria, Sanchez and all our expansive flops from the last 10 years.

I only know the guy will be very expansive and that he already rejected us so I am not very keen about it especially with people wanting him at all cost.

 

[Don_Johan14]

If he goes to Barca, he's a nine

At Barcelona he would not play as a 9. They have signed Vitor Roque and they have a youth player like Marc Guiu.
Barcelona will try to raise money for a pivot, a left winger and a RB.

 

[Seveneric]

I'm assuming if United will be in for him this season, there must have been assurances from his side this time. If it's just running up a blind alley again like last year, then I hope everyone involves gets fired, and I'm serious.

 

[vibe]

Is he a good player in a position we need upgrades in? Yes. Do I want this to happen? Absolutely not.

If we want to be a top team in Europe it's high time we start acting like it and INEOS being associated with the same level of patheticness in the transfer market as the Glazers is not the PR we need. De Jong is great, but there are equally as good options out there and I'd rather we spent more on one of those to show an example that you can't just give United the run around for years and then join whenever you feel like it in case things don't go the way you wanted them to.

If we want players to start treating playing for United as a privilege and not a backup option, we should be demonstrating that you can, indeed, blow your chance of playing for this club. That's not emotional, that's just a tactic to put pressure on players we want to sign, making it clear that the clock on the offer is ticking and they might not get another one.

 

[Drz]

What gives you that impression, out of curiosity? He’s excelled at the biggest club in Holland, and has also done so at a huge club in Spain. He stood up as a key performer for Holland in the World Cup too.

Barcelona were open to selling him and he showed great character to fight his way back and earn huge plaudits and become their key midfielder. Whatever he does next with his career, we will see, but I’m seeing a lot of narratives here which don’t seem to have much basis tbh.

That was my initial reaction, fight for badge and loyalty was laudable.
But I also felt Barca didn't manage/treat him well professionally speaking, particularly if the noise about them owing him money was true and that they were attempting to weasel out of it.
I just feel I'd have respected him a bit more if he put lawyers on the recoup of money and just walked out because of how he was treated.
He is and was a talented technical midfielder and would have done well elsewhere too, so his behaviour can also be interpreted as somewhat submissive.
It's just a gut feeling and I'm tired of expensive mistakes.

 

[croadyman]

I'm assuming if United will be in for him this season, there must have been assurances from his side this time. If it's just running up a blind alley again like last year, then I hope everyone involves gets fired, and I'm serious.

Quite honestly I don't think we are in for him

 

[MadDogg]

But I also felt Barca didn't manage/treat him well professionally speaking, particularly if the noise about them owing him money was true and that they were attempting to weasel out of it.
I just feel I'd have respected him a bit more if he put lawyers on the recoup of money and just walked out because of how he was treated.

Legally Barca didn't do anything wrong so he wouldn't have been able to put lawyers on to it. Morally is a different story, but we know that Barca are a morally-bankrupt club.

Barca were in financial trouble and De Jong agreed to help them by changing his contract to get paid very little (relatively speaking) in his first couple of seasons but then his wage would increase so he'd get that difference paid back to him in his last couple of seasons. Barca then turned around halfway through his contract and said thanks for helping us and playing for cheap, but now either feck off so we don't have to pay you what you agreed to postpone, or stay on your original contract and forget about the money you postponed. Either way De Jong was down over £15m from the years that he'd agreed to play for cheap, but if he'd agreed to move to another club or agreed a new contract he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on to get it.

I respect that he refused to let Barca get away with their bullshit, and just stayed there on his contract so they have to honour it. If we heard about that in any other industry we'd be cheering for the worker not allowing the big company to screw them over.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

PSG, Bayern or City bound - depends on his ambitions.

I can’t see us getting him with Mainoo now. I don’t think De Jong compliments him the way I’d want a more of a mobile defensive midfield figure next to him.

 

[AndySmith1990]

PSG, Bayern or City bound - depends on his ambitions.

I can’t see us getting him with Mainoo now. I don’t think De Jong compliments him the way I’d want a more of a mobile defensive midfield figure next to him.

Sounds sensible. Already strong teams get even stronger, whilst we pass up on quality players and put all our eggs in the basket of an 18 year old with a handful of games

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Sounds sensible. Already strong teams get even stronger, whilst we pass up on quality players and put all our eggs in the basket of an 18 year old with a handful of games

Agreed with the overblown mainoo hype train comment.

 

[parmenio]

Agreed with the overblown mainoo hype train comment.

Really. Mainoo is what we have been looking for, for so long. we should be looking to build our midfield around him and Bruno. Not another £300k + player who doesn’t really want to be here anyway. De Jong may be a decent player but he’s not what we need. We need a younger Casemiro type. Thurman look's ideal and not a budget breaker. If we are to go crazy in the summer and over spend in midfield then Neves is the one but again not sure he’s the right fit when we have Mainoo. Let Barca rot in the mess of their own making rather than helping them out.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Really. Mainoo is what we have been looking for, for so long. we should be looking to build our midfield around him and Bruno. Not another £300k + player who doesn’t really want to be here anyway. De Jong may be a decent player but he’s not what we need. We need a younger Casemiro type. Thurman look's ideal and not a budget breaker. If we are to go crazy in the summer and over spend in midfield then Neves is the one but again not sure he’s the right fit when we have Mainoo. Let Barca rot in the mess of their own making rather than helping them out.

You just cant pass up on quality players just because we now have Mainoo. Look at what Barca did with Pedri and Gavi. They ran them into the ground and they are facing regular injuries.

Adnan Januzaj had that incredible season back in the day and everyone said he was "what we have been looking for so long" but what happened after that? I'm not saying for one bit that Mainoo isn't special, I am saying that we should be patient with him and add balance in the squad.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

This is just emotional rhetoric. How exactly is he a ‘mercenary’, more than any other footballer anyway?

People are spinning some sort of narrative that he now apparently has an attitude issue, ‘the sort of player we should stay away from’. All without basis.

This is a player who turned down PSG to sign for his dream club, and didn’t walk the first moment things got difficult there. Instead, he fought his way back into the team and earned unanimous plaudits for his performances there. He was determined to make it there and did. Does Harry Maguire have problems, is he also a mercenary for not easily giving up on his United career and fighting back to form? Would he be the sort of player teams now need to stay away from?

There is nothing, literally nothing (in fact, only the opposite) that suggests that De Jong is not a ‘hungry player who wants to prove himself’. He’s playing for Barcelona, not Al-Ittihad for heaven’s sake!

A broke barca not paying him his due even. No mercenary worth his salt takes half nor deffered pay

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I don’t really see where he fits into this team?
Mainoo is clearly not a 6 yet, De Jong would be better suited playing the 8 in the premier league.


....

He is an older version of Mainoo. They'd literally fit together like a glove. I don't get were people get this idea De jong is physically and defensively like Christian Eriksen. Let alone that Mainoo needs a physical beast next to him rather than a technician in the Carrick mould.

 

[parmenio]

You just cant pass up on quality players just because we now have Mainoo. Look at what Barca did with Pedri and Gavi. They ran them into the ground and they are facing regular injuries.

Adnan Januzaj had that incredible season back in the day and everyone said he was "what we have been looking for so long" but what happened after that? I'm not saying for one bit that Mainoo isn't special, I am saying that we should be patient with him and add balance in the squad.

if that’s the case then we go for Neves. Personally I think we need a Thurman type to round off the midfield. We have time to be patient with Mainoo but the way he’s playing he’s making sure we have to pick him. De Jong is what the old regime would have bought we look like now we’re about value for money and building to go forwards. Doubt ETH is here next season and if he is I would hazard a guess he has little to zero input into player purchases which again would prob rule out DeJong

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

if that’s the case then we go for Neves. Personally I think we need a Thurman type to round off the midfield. We have time to be patient with Mainoo but the way he’s playing he’s making sure we have to pick him. De Jong is what the old regime would have bought we look like now we’re about value for money and building to go forwards. Doubt ETH is here next season and if he is I would hazard a guess he has little to zero input into player purchases which again would prob rule out DeJong

De jong is a top player, period. Anyone who thinks our next recruitment department would overlook him if he were available at a decent fee is just kidding themselves. ETH input in that would hardly be required.

 

[croadyman]

De jong is a top player, period. Anyone who thinks our next recruitment department would overlook him if he were available at a decent fee is just kidding themselves. ETH input in that would hardly be required.

Think it's more he needs to show our recruitment department there isn't anything preventing him from leaving. Still feels to me like he hasn't got the guts.

 

[Redivy]

He is an older version of Mainoo. They'd literally fit together like a glove. I don't get were people get this idea De jong is physically and defensively like Christian Eriksen. Let alone that Mainoo needs a physical beast next to him rather than a technician in the Carrick mould.

He isn’t great at interceptions or tackling or clearances or aerial duals. He isn’t quick in transition defending and is slow at covering for defenders if they push up in attack.

You don’t need a physical beast like Onana, but you need a player that can effectively close down space and get stuck in.

And when De Jong himself was asked about playing the deep midfield role, his exact words were “I need freedom of movement”.

So whilst you consider him an ideal fit, I’d compare it to us trying to play Pogba in that same role when he was clearly not suited for it.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Is he a natural partner for mainoo. Seems like no he isnt at all

 

[croadyman]

He isn’t great at interceptions or tackling or clearances or aerial duals. He isn’t quick in transition defending and is slow at covering for defenders if they push up in attack.

You don’t need a physical beast like Onana, but you need a player that can effectively close down space and get stuck in.

And when De Jong himself was asked about playing the deep midfield role, his exact words were “I need freedom of movement”.

So whilst you consider him an ideal fit, I’d compare it to us trying to play Pogba in that same role when he was clearly not suited for it.

Who is that player able to close down space?

 

[Drz]

Legally Barca didn't do anything wrong so he wouldn't have been able to put lawyers on to it. Morally is a different story, but we know that Barca are a morally-bankrupt club.

Barca were in financial trouble and De Jong agreed to help them by changing his contract to get paid very little (relatively speaking) in his first couple of seasons but then his wage would increase so he'd get that difference paid back to him in his last couple of seasons. Barca then turned around halfway through his contract and said thanks for helping us and playing for cheap, but now either feck off so we don't have to pay you what you agreed to postpone, or stay on your original contract and forget about the money you postponed. Either way De Jong was down over £15m from the years that he'd agreed to play for cheap, but if he'd agreed to move to another club or agreed a new contract he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on to get it.

I respect that he refused to let Barca get away with their bullshit, and just stayed there on his contract so they have to honour it. If we heard about that in any other industry we'd be cheering for the worker not allowing the big company to screw them over.

That is a fair assessment. Can't shake the feeling it won't work for us though.

Besides, I think we need a younger version of Casemiro more. And with Mount returning from injury, Mainoo's potential and all the noise around J. Fletcher. I think a quality DM or even two if Casemiro leaves in the summer should be the priority for building our midfield.

Beyond that, how would you use Frenkie, if he were brought in? And what would be your ideal signing in midfield? (player or position even...)