Fred is one of the most underrated players in England

[city-puma]

Like when? Literally can't remember any game like that. Even vs West Ham, it was a perfect opportunity to go for 3 man midfield with Matic at the base and Fred & van de Beek as #8s. We went for for good old 4-4-2.

I feel the reason Ole doesn’t play us in 4-3-3 too much is because our defense line is not fast enough to play high line with the whole team keeping a compact shape. Many said Ole played Molde almost as same as pool under Klopp.
So, probably after the next transfer window, he will have players to play that way.
just my guess though.

 

[Borys]

I feel the reason Ole doesn’t play us in 4-3-3 too much is because our defense line is not fast enough to play high line with the whole team keeping a compact shape. Many said Ole played Molde almost as same as pool under Klopp.
So, probably after the next transfer window, he will have players to play that way.
just my guess though.

4-3-3 does not require high line though. My point is Ole has the players to go for 3 man midfield (in whatever configuration), he just chooses not to. I don't see that changing and honestly Bruno is one of the very few players for which it might be worth to stick with 2 man midfield.
We just need wide player to put a little more effort and we'll be fine against most teams.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Like when? Literally can't remember any game like that. Even vs West Ham, it was a perfect opportunity to go for 3 man midfield with Matic at the base and Fred & van de Beek as #8s. We went for for good old 4-4-2.

Not lately, but he used it consistently when he was appointed.

I actually couldn't see why he moved away from it at the start of 19/20, especially while Pogba was fit and Fernandes hadn't come in yet. Makes a lot more sense now that there's a proper quality option in that number ten role.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Limited player. Despite his defensive role in the midfield, you come to expect a lot more from a Manchester united player in there. We had Keane, Carrick level players there ffs.
If anything he is correctly rated here.
Such a key role taken up by such a limited player in the middle of the park.
Need 5-8 odd goals from him a season and some shooting training. Jesus you are a midfielder man.

 

[city-puma]

Not lately, but he used it consistently when he was appointed.

I actually couldn't see why he moved away from it at the start of 19/20, especially while Pogba was fit and Fernandes hadn't come in yet. Makes a lot more sense now that there's a proper quality option in that number ten role.

True. We got a bunch of the injuries then. In this league, playing 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 needs a great level of fitness and intensity, a compact shape with comfort to play high line. We lacks several personals to consistently play that style for a season I think.

 

[Water Melon]

Limited player. Despite his defensive role in the midfield, you come to expect a lot more from a Manchester united player in there. We had Keane, Carrick level players there ffs.
If anything he is correctly rated here.
Such a key role taken up by such a limited player in the middle of the park.
Need 5-8 odd goals from him a season and some shooting training. Jesus you are a midfielder man.

Seconded. Fred has a good engine, but he is limited. As you rightfully mentioned, Keane and Carrick were a couple leveles above him.

 

[Borys]

Not lately, but he used it consistently when he was appointed.

I actually couldn't see why he moved away from it at the start of 19/20, especially while Pogba was fit and Fernandes hadn't come in yet. Makes a lot more sense now that there's a proper quality option in that number ten role.

Well yeah, so Ole hadn't used it for over a year. I guess "we never play 4-3-3" is not that big of a stretch after all.

 

[Nickelodeon]

I don't recall a player who shoots so often yet has such a poor scoring record. Every game he plays, he has at least a couple of efforts and they're nowhere close. Wonder what gives him so much confidence to take on the shot, that too with his weaker foot most of the time.

 

[MU655]

I don't recall a player who shoots so often yet has such a poor scoring record. Every game he plays, he has at least a couple of efforts and they're nowhere close. Wonder what gives him so much confidence to take on the shot, that too with his weaker foot most of the time.

A lot of DMs when you look at stats. Fred averages 1 shot per 90, 0 goals. Rodri averages 1 shot per 90, 0 goals. Kante averaged 0.8 (in 16/17 - at his peak), 1 goal. Carrick's highest was 1.4 one season (most of the time it was lower), and he scored 3 goals. There is a lot more like that.

I don't actually think the shooting is all that much of a deal. One or two goals and he matches most DM outputs.

 

[DSG]

Limited player. Despite his defensive role in the midfield, you come to expect a lot more from a Manchester united player in there. We had Keane, Carrick level players there ffs.
If anything he is correctly rated here.
Such a key role taken up by such a limited player in the middle of the park.
Need 5-8 odd goals from him a season and some shooting training. Jesus you are a midfielder man.

‘He’s very good at pressure, and likes a tackle. There are times that he can be quick on the turn and generally always looks to be an option / safety valve. He can be elite at times defensively and covers a lot of ground and has great energy.

He’s never going to score 3 goals a season, much less 5. But that isn’t really that glaring of an issue. I have many more complaints which in my mind will always mean that he will never become a top DM. First of all, for a central midfielder, he’s woefully one -footed. His passing options are sometimes limited because of this. Two, he isn’t particularly good at long range passing with either foot. Decent with through balls to the striker or wings (had a couple of assists I believe), but lofted balls are a problem. Has two to three literally “pass the ball out of out of play” episodes every game. And of course, offers nothing when shooting.

I personally don’t think we can win the league with him as first choice DM. When on form, a good squad option if paired with more of a distributor.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Like when? Literally can't remember any game like that. Even vs West Ham, it was a perfect opportunity to go for 3 man midfield with Matic at the base and Fred & van de Beek as #8s. We went for for good old 4-4-2.

Only time I can think of where we did it was Istanbul at home. Fred sat and then VdB was his partner but given the standard of opposition we basically played 4123. It’s how we should approach games like SHU and WBA but only Ole knows why he picks McFred to win games against inferior defensive teams.

 

[MadDogg]

‘He’s very good at pressure, and likes a tackle. There are times that he can be quick on the turn and generally always looks to be an option / safety valve. He can be elite at times defensively and covers a lot of ground and has great energy.

He’s never going to score 3 goals a season, much less 5. But that isn’t really that glaring of an issue. I have many more complaints which in my mind will always mean that he will never become a top DM. First of all, for a central midfielder, he’s woefully one -footed. His passing options are sometimes limited because of this. Two, he isn’t particularly good at long range passing with either foot. Decent with through balls to the striker or wings (had a couple of assists I believe), but lofted balls are a problem. Has two to three literally “pass the ball out of out of play” episodes every game. And of course, offers nothing when shooting.

I personally don’t think we can win the league with him as first choice DM. When on form, a good squad option if paired with more of a distributor.

Wait, that's a strange complaint. His two-footedness is quite notable and he actually plays far more passes with his 'weak' foot than anybody else in our team. Pogba and perhaps Greenwood are capable of better quality, but Fred's comfortably ahead of anybody else in that regard.

 

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

I'm actually fairly shocked at the positive view on Fred in this thread. I would agree that he is brilliant at pressing and breaking up play but he is so technically poor though its unbelievable. He loses the ball an incredible amount either through poor technique or making the wrong pass and in this regard is a total liability.
I also notice that when he is heading into a 50/50 his aim is always just to make contact with the ball rather than actually attempt to retain possession. He did this a number of times against WBA.
He is completely risk averse when it comes to passing and considering the ball goes through him a lot this means he is essentially a dead-weight when it comes to building attacking moves. There are often cutting passes available to him into the feet of Bruno/Greenwood/Rashford which he ignores in favour of a sideways pass to McTominay.
His shooting is surely the worst of any midfielder in the league, not only is it always miles off target, but completely lacks any power. You can see our opposition is actually fine for him to take shots, they don't even close him down.
Whilst McTominay has made strides this season as an all action box-to-box midfielder in his passing and attacking link up Fred has not progressed at all.

If we are to hold any hopes of launching a serious challenge for the league next season I really think that the #6 position is of the utmost importance (ahead of CB or RW) because without a decent base we can't transition properly from defence to attack. A top class defensive midfielder would also mean Bruno doesn't have to spend so much time dropping deam to force our attacking progression up the field. I couldn't tell you who is realistic target for this #6 position but I would certainly say if there was any chance we could force Leicester to sell N'didi he would make a huge difference. Possibly Bissouma at Brighton would be an option?

 

[MAME DIOUF 32]

Fred's the best shit player I've ever seen. He's one of the worst strikers of a ball we've ever had, his passing range is extremely limited, but once he got established he's been consistently one of our top performers. Incredible athleticism and desire.

 

[RedIan]

I think most accept Freds desire and effort is excellent... does he have the ability on the ball to be a top class midfielder? A definate No. His passing is poor and his shooting is the worst ive seen in a red shIrt. He is a squad player for me and Shouldn’t be a regular but we have limited options at DM

 

[davidmichael]

I don’t think he’s overrated or underrated, he’s just there. He’s not a box to box player, he’s not a pure out and out defensive player and he’s not a deep lying playmaker and just kind of an energetic ball winner who presses the opposition well.

For £52 million you expect someone who has obvious qualities and those qualities to be of a high level, didn't Fred cost more than Fernandes ? He does play well with McTominay as they cover each other’s weaknesses with their own strengths but neither is a pure defensive midfielder or anywhere where Fernandes or Pogba and for us to win trophies we need a pure defensive midfielder with limitless stamina so we can play Fernandes and Pogba together.

 

[DSG]

Wait, that's a strange complaint. His two-footedness is quite notable and he actually plays far more passes with his 'weak' foot than anybody else in our team. Pogba and perhaps Greenwood are capable of better quality, but Fred's comfortably ahead of anybody else in that regard.

“FOR A CENTRAL MIDFIELDER”

He plays more passes with his weaker for than McT? Matic? Pogba? Bruno? I admit, I haven’t sat down and counted the number of passes he plays with his right foot. I think if you watch very carefully, you’ll find him much more one-footed than you’d like.

 

[MadDogg]

“FOR A CENTRAL MIDFIELDER”

He plays more passes with his weaker for than McT? Matic? Pogba? Bruno? I admit, I haven’t sat down and counted the number of passes he plays with his right foot. I think if you watch very carefully, you’ll find him much more one-footed than you’d like.

Easily, it's not even close.

FBref has the stats for it and it shows exactly what I would have expected. Fred plays 28% of his passes with his weak foot. Pogba is 14%, Matic 13%, VDB 9%, McTominay 8% and Bruno 8%. Even the very two footed Greenwood, playing on the side that probably encourages him to play passes with his right, is only at 21%. Like I said Pogba is capable of playing some incredible quality with his weak foot (better than the vast majority of players can play with either foot), but even he doesn't do it all that often.

Without wanting to sound like I'm being a smartarse repeating your words back to you, it's actually you who would realise he's much more two-footed than you think if you watched carefully.

 

[Ace]

Can we just let this thread die? He’s so far from being “underrated”.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Easily, it's not even close.

FBref has the stats for it and it shows exactly what I would have expected. Fred plays 28% of his passes with his weak foot. Pogba is 14%, Matic 13%, VDB 9%, McTominay 8% and Bruno 8%. Even the very two footed Greenwood, playing on the side that probably encourages him to play passes with his right, is only at 21%. Like I said Pogba is capable of playing some incredible quality with his weak foot (better than the vast majority of players can play with either foot), but even he doesn't do it all that often.

Without wanting to sound like I'm being a smartarse repeating your words back to you, it's actually you who would realise he's much more two-footed than you think if you watched carefully.

Yeah, I thought that was a strange thing to point out.

Fred is definitely not one-footed. He's not a particularly great passer, but he can play average ones with either foot

 

[DSG]

Easily, it's not even close.

FBref has the stats for it and it shows exactly what I would have expected. Fred plays 28% of his passes with his weak foot. Pogba is 14%, Matic 13%, VDB 9%, McTominay 8% and Bruno 8%. Even the very two footed Greenwood, playing on the side that probably encourages him to play passes with his right, is only at 21%. Like I said Pogba is capable of playing some incredible quality with his weak foot (better than the vast majority of players can play with either foot), but even he doesn't do it all that often.

Without wanting to sound like I'm being a smartarse repeating your words back to you, it's actually you who would realise he's much more two-footed than you think if you watched carefully.

I'm glad Fbref has these stats

I still stand by what I said in the previous/original post. A 5 yard pass with your weaker foot is different than Pogba switching fields on a dime with his weaker foot. I do not believe that Fred is going to turn into Pirlo. He's basically a very energetic DM that plays a lot of simple passes and keeps the ball moving. Is that a disaster? No. But I stand by my previous comment. He's probably not good enough to win a title as your first choice DM.

Would you rather have Fred than Rodri? Gundogan? Fabinho? Henderson? Veratti? Kimmich? Kante? Casemiro? De Jong? Kessie? Saul?

I'm delighted that Fred has come in to form. He's an important part of the squad. But as the Caf tends to do, we swing from extreme to extreme. He was never as bad as the Caf made him out to be, and he isn't as good either.

 

[Beachryan]

Given his cost, would we really be better off with him than Herrera?

Not saying either is particularly good, just that he's yet another symbol of our transfer policy: buy what is easy.

Seems a nice chap, has great energy but I'm not sure I've seen a less consistent passer of the football at a decent club. You compare the quality of a Paredes, Veratti, Raboit etc and then consider he's the 50m player...it's not great.

 

[Zoo]

What an assist. He can’t pass forward though apparently.

 

[Carl]

What an assist. He can’t pass forward though apparently.

I like Fred, but one assist doesn't suddenly make him a great passer mate. He's certainly limited in that area.

 

[Ali Dia]

My man! Yet another good game.

 

[The Man Himself]

He has certain limitations but he has improved a lot. Definitely an asset and great squad player to have.

 

[Pexbo]

Can we just let this thread die? He’s so far from being “underrated”.

Agreed, time to let it die. He’s quality and everyone knows it.

 

[Will Singh]

Top performance yet again. Definitely underrated on here

 

[Vidyoyo]

But he didn't play in England tonight?

 

[DannyCAFC]

I'm glad Fbref has these stats

I still stand by what I said in the previous/original post. A 5 yard pass with your weaker foot is different than Pogba switching fields on a dime with his weaker foot. I do not believe that Fred is going to turn into Pirlo. He's basically a very energetic DM that plays a lot of simple passes and keeps the ball moving. Is that a disaster? No. But I stand by my previous comment. He's probably not good enough to win a title as your first choice DM.

Would you rather have Fred than Rodri? Gundogan? Fabinho? Henderson? Veratti? Kimmich? Kante? Casemiro? De Jong? Kessie? Saul?

I'm delighted that Fred has come in to form. He's an important part of the squad. But as the Caf tends to do, we swing from extreme to extreme. He was never as bad as the Caf made him out to be, and he isn't as good either.

So your response to somebody countering your very poor observation regarding Fred's two-footedness, instead of something on topic, is 'yeah but... he's not better than... *proceeds to list about 10 of the world's very best midfielders*

 

[OrcaFat]

I like Fred, but one assist doesn't suddenly make him a great passer mate. He's certainly limited in that area.

He’s mostly a decent passer and makes some really good attacking passes. His problem is that he loses composure under pressure and you see erratic passing and being caught in possession a fair bit.

 

[MikeeMike]

Wait, that's a strange complaint. His two-footedness is quite notable and he actually plays far more passes with his 'weak' foot than anybody else in our team. Pogba and perhaps Greenwood are capable of better quality, but Fred's comfortably ahead of anybody else in that regard.

True, he can shoot horribly wide with either foot.

 

[Eyepopper]

He's basically Anderson, if Anderson was in anyway decent at playing football.

 

[MikeeMike]

He's basically Anderson, if Anderson was in anyway decent at playing football.

At least Viv could get to the byline and get a cross in

 

[Gator Nate]

So against Real Sociedad, Fred had the most pass attempts (51) and the second-highest accuracy (92.2%) behind James (94.7% of 19 attempts). I don't count Mata or Diallo, who were 100% on 3 and 1 attempts respectively.

Fred was 4 of 4 on long balls, where Bruno was 3 of 5. Henderson was 6 of 15.

Of course, one of those was that beautiful assist to Rashford.

Oddly, he had little defensive contribution, with no tackles, clearances, or blocks, and only 1 interception. To be fair, though, there were only 8 interceptions over the course of the game, and only Bruno (2) had more than 1.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Wait, that's a strange complaint. His two-footedness is quite notable and he actually plays far more passes with his 'weak' foot than anybody else in our team. Pogba and perhaps Greenwood are capable of better quality, but Fred's comfortably ahead of anybody else in that regard.

In a way I kind of agree with you he is very confident with either foot but in a way it’s kind of his problem. I think he thinks he‘s better than he actually is with his right foot.

In a way it’s one thing I love about Fred, nothing phases him, unyielding confidence in his own ability. 6ft 4 man mountain, Fred gonna go in to an aerial battle with you and expect to win. 15 stone powerhouse running through, Fred is going to try and match you and think he’ll win.

How can people not love that kind of guy. I do however think sometimes when he uses his right he can get a bit sloppy and at times over uses it.

 

[DSG]

So your response to somebody countering your very poor observation regarding Fred's two-footedness, instead of something on topic, is 'yeah but... he's not better than... *proceeds to list about 10 of the world's very best midfielders*

Actually, I originally wrote a fairly long post about Fred. The one-footedness comment was a characteristic that I have noticed for almost a year now. If you go through my entire post, you'll see I was complimentary of Fred in many ways.

Just because the statistic exists doesn't mean it's necessarily a good indicator of Fred's ABILITY with his right foot. It shows he's willing to use it, that's all.
% of passes completed with weaker foot
Avg. distance of passes completed with weaker foot
Shots on target with weaker foot vs. off target

I believe some of these stats do exist, and I'm sure the team's stats dept is compiling these if they aren't publicly available. But there is also the eye test.

How many times have we seen Fred literally pass the ball out of bounds? Can you remember Scholes or Carrick doing that with regularity?

There is a reason that CBs have some of the highest pass completion percentages -- they play a lot of low risk passes when building from the back. Does that mean they are the game's best passers? No.

Fred is a good player. I'm happy he's a member of Utd. But we need to start seeing and evaluating these players with nuance and intelligence instead of polarized camps of good and bad.

On to your comment about listing "world class midfielders"... Is it outrageous to expect a world class player as a DM for Manchester United? In the history of football, are we considered a top club who should have top players? Furthermore, is every player I listed world-class, or merely just better than Fred? Kessie is world class? Ndidi? Witsel? Winaldum? Brozovic?

Thanks for trolling me. I have enjoyed our repartee. Looking forward to your pithy two sentence response.

 

[DSG]

He’s mostly a decent passer and makes some really good attacking passes. His problem is that he loses composure under pressure and you see erratic passing and being caught in possession a fair bit.

This.

So against Real Sociedad, Fred had the most pass attempts (51) and the second-highest accuracy (92.2%) behind James (94.7% of 19 attempts). I don't count Mata or Diallo, who were 100% on 3 and 1 attempts respectively.

Fred was 4 of 4 on long balls, where Bruno was 3 of 5. Henderson was 6 of 15.

Of course, one of those was that beautiful assist to Rashford.

Oddly, he had little defensive contribution, with no tackles, clearances, or blocks, and only 1 interception. To be fair, though, there were only 8 interceptions over the course of the game, and only Bruno (2) had more than 1.

He played very well. The through ball was brilliant. The passing accuracy stat is maybe one of the worst in football. Looking at the match stats, Dan James is our most accurate passer... I would say that he's typically the worst passer of the ball amongst the starting 11. Very simple 5 yard passes (even when you don't mean to assist on a goal) aren't exactly a high degree of difficulty.

 

[Gator Nate]

He played very well. The through ball was brilliant. The passing accuracy stat is maybe one of the worst in football. Looking at the match stats, Dan James is our most accurate passer... I would say that he's typically the worst passer of the ball amongst the starting 11. Very simple 5 yard passes (even when you don't mean to assist on a goal) aren't exactly a high degree of difficulty.

Passing accuracy definitely has to be read in context. That's why I completely ignored the two 100% passers - they didn't have 5 attempts combined. Dan only had 19, so one might expect his accuracy to be high. The point was, Fred attempted more than anyone and was more accurate than everyone else, to boot.

Sideways and backwards passing are fine and necessary when you're in the engine room. I think he takes way too much flak for that. The ball is coming through him and he's moving it on to our players, rather than the opposition, at a high rate. That's his job and he does it well.

 

[wolvored]

I'm glad Fbref has these stats

I still stand by what I said in the previous/original post. A 5 yard pass with your weaker foot is different than Pogba switching fields on a dime with his weaker foot. I do not believe that Fred is going to turn into Pirlo. He's basically a very energetic DM that plays a lot of simple passes and keeps the ball moving. Is that a disaster? No. But I stand by my previous comment. He's probably not good enough to win a title as your first choice DM.

Would you rather have Fred than Rodri? Gundogan? Fabinho? Henderson? Veratti? Kimmich? Kante? Casemiro? De Jong? Kessie? Saul?

I'm delighted that Fred has come in to form. He's an important part of the squad. But as the Caf tends to do, we swing from extreme to extreme. He was never as bad as the Caf made him out to be, and he isn't as good either.

No. Fred is poorer than all those players.