Thought his part in the goal was brilliant. Shaw was down after a heavy collision with Rice so Fred took over down the left and bombed forward on the overlap.
Fred is one of the most underrated players in England
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He's really won me over and I never thought I'd be saying that.
His ball retention/positioning/tackling is a joy to watch.
The only criticism I would still have is I think he needs to back himself a bit more in an attacking sense.
He often finds himself in good positions to have a shot and very rarely does, he hesitates and inevitably ends up passing it sideways or backwards.
I know he's not really in the team to contribute attacking wise but when you're playing for one of the 'top' sides, even as a defensive midfielder, there are going to be moments where you have the opportunity to push forward.
If he could add this to his game then we could be looking at a world class midfielder (again if someone had of said that to me a year ago I would have laughed my head off).
His ball retention/positioning/tackling is a joy to watch.
The only criticism I would still have is I think he needs to back himself a bit more in an attacking sense.
He often finds himself in good positions to have a shot and very rarely does, he hesitates and inevitably ends up passing it sideways or backwards.
I know he's not really in the team to contribute attacking wise but when you're playing for one of the 'top' sides, even as a defensive midfielder, there are going to be moments where you have the opportunity to push forward.
If he could add this to his game then we could be looking at a world class midfielder (again if someone had of said that to me a year ago I would have laughed my head off).
No Kerry, he should NEVER shoot, like never ever ever. If he's 3 yards out with an open goal he should pass it to the closest onside United player.
Was a nice little dinked cross too.
he was a lot more effective than Rice who I’ve been impressed with this year but is he going to take us to the next level? I don’t think he’s a huge upgrade but he’s young and he’s got a more conventional game.
I hate the argument he’s a good squad player. Do you think Mahrez/Sterling/Bernardo Silva/Foden are considered a squad players for city? If he isn’t good enough sell him and move on. We will never win anything with Fred in midfield, he offers nothing other than energy and the odd tackle. He can’t pass, head or shoot. Why do we buy bang average players ? He’s the Brazilian Tom Cleverley.
Remember when he'd be shot by 60 minutes? Last night he was chasing players down in Extra time
An example to Donny;work at your game,determination,resilience...it'll come
An example to Donny;work at your game,determination,resilience...it'll come
McT absolutely dominated Rice last night
He played a deflected cross that got recovered by Rashford. These are the simple things he should be doing many times per game rather than once, especially when we arent talking about putting in a good cross. Just a cross that is deflected, falls behind the striker and then West Ham have to clear it out which they didnt do very well and Rashford recovers the ball. This should be one of the things that he can constantly do in a match because of his main skill being running
Instead he offered next to nothing going forward other than that run
Fred's passing is sloppy at times. His pass completion rate or whatever statistic is irrelevant when we all see him underhitting or overhitting a pass, that might still arrive but slows us down.
His passing doesn't have the accuracy or creativity you'd expect from a class midfielder.
Coupled with his poor shooting ability, lack of goal threat and aerial weakness, he has way too many flaws to be a top midfielder.
Pointing out these flaws does not make him underrated.
He's a ball winner with great lungs and decent passing.
I think Fred is rated quite correctly on the caf.
Matic is done, Pogba might leave and VDB has barely featured. Selling Fred is a bad idea.
For all his flaws, his engine, ball recovery and attitude is a huge boon in big games. He'll even put in a solid shift at left fullback if asked. Those types of soldiers are useful to have in squad.
I think you're underrating his passing ability if you're lumping it in with his shooting and heading.
His passing doesn't have the accuracy or creativity you'd expect from a class midfielder.
Coupled with his poor shooting ability, lack of goal threat and aerial weakness, he has way too many flaws to be a top midfielder.
Pointing out these flaws does not make him underrated.
He's a ball winner with great lungs and decent passing.
I think Fred is rated quite correctly on the caf.
Matic is done, Pogba might leave and VDB has barely featured. Selling Fred is a bad idea.
For all his flaws, his engine, ball recovery and attitude is a huge boon in big games. He'll even put in a solid shift at left fullback if asked. Those types of soldiers are useful to have in squad.
I think you're underrating his passing ability if you're lumping it in with his shooting and heading.
Big statement. I have to disagree, it's the team that wins you trophies not individuals. Individuals make the difference in big moments.
Fred is a cog in our mechnics, he keeps things ticking and he's reliable in being present and working hard for the team. His shooting isn't good, but his ball retention bar a few mis-placed passes is very good, he is a quick touch player, he keeps the ball moving.
Going back to the days of Felliani, Pogba and Matic in midfield that was painful to watch. All 3 take too many touches and slow down the game.
Fred moves the ball very quickly.
I've noticed Pogba and even Matic are now trying to move the ball a lot quicker. Pogba even said that in a recent interview with Rio.
Such a cop out blaming Fred when he actually forces the issue and wins the game with a bit of scrappy play. So what about Rashford and Martial our classy players who created nothing and rarely create for each other? They are fine I take it? It’s not Fred’s job to create chance after chance. His job is to keep us in the game while our creative players do the damage. our 200k a week forwards can’t do it but you expect Fred to be doing it? Consistently? Mental
Industrial players will always have their supporters. And that's what he is.
He'd be twice the player if he knew how to hold off players rather than his endless press and recover approach.
He's not terrible, but he's no world beater either and I don't think by any means he's underrated.
He'd be twice the player if he knew how to hold off players rather than his endless press and recover approach.
He's not terrible, but he's no world beater either and I don't think by any means he's underrated.
No they were very dissappointing, this is the Fred thread and not the place to talk about our strikers
he was key to our control in the midfield in a game we dominated and on top of that played a key pass to win the game. 90% pass rate and our bravest passer apart from Bruno. Our forwards score or create a bit more and nobody is talking about Fred’s shortcomings. It’s all relative.
West Ham sat back and he had the ball deep and didnt hurt them with it, hence they sat back and it was 0 - 0 after more than 90 mins. Nobody cares if Fred has the ball they just dont want it going to Bruno or our attacking players.
Yes agree! Sometimes our own players leave him out as they know nothing will come of it. Zero threat!
hes not meant to provide an attacking threat but he actually still does. His cross set up the goal. It’s like banging your head against a brick wall. Does Fabinho set up many goals? Does Fernandinho? What did Rice do? It’s on our attack to create and break teams down. Why aren’t you guys in their threads slating them? Without Fred’s tenacity that game probably goes to penalties but he still doesn’t create enough. It’s the attack that failed us last night. Change the tune lads.
What? They are elite wingers and attacking midfielders you are comparing him to? Rice Fernandinho Fabinho. Those are the players playing in the same position. Now go check their stats. Fred is just as effective as them but playing in a less creative team overall especially if Bruno or Rashford aren’t at it. Fred has put martial through 1 on 1 about 5 times this season. At least twice in the last 3 games and martial missed when it was easier to score. I’m sure you noticed those missed chances with your username but Fred isn’t good enough?
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I would sell 2-3 CMs before selling him. He has his uses and is outstanding pressing up the pitch which helps us in the ball back early when attacks break down. His biggest problem is his confidence or over confidence. He loves to be involved in attacking 3rd, standing over free kicks, and hovering at the edge of the box like he is a genuine threat but.............
if he cracked a few in from the edge of the area he’d be a total cult hero (like our very own version of Stevie G- McT
) but he always seems to be looking for the pass and it’s like he’s surprised when our players don’t show for it and it fully opens up it’s like his worst nightmare. He also doesn’t know what foot to hit it with or anything. His shooting is definitely bad but he’s not a greedy player, his first instinct is always to keep the ball moving and provide that platform for our attackers. He should have a few assists this year but for bad finishing and the rub of the green. He certainly has a few pre assists and is usually involved in the positive stuff that we create in one way or another. Add the defensive and pressing aspect and he’s a pretty unique player. Unconventional style but he regularly wins the midfield battle and and majorly helps out at both ends of the pitch.
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I’m not buying that Fred is massively underrated now all of a sudden.
There is a huge amount of middle-ground between “waste of money” and “best player ever” and most people seem to want to label players as one of the two.
What I see in Fred is a player who is good at covering ground and breaking up attacks who is also getting much better at shielding the ball from opponents.
I still think his passing is very average. It usually takes an extra touch to get himself set and his passes are not quite hit hard enough or accurately enough to really open teams up or launch attacks.
Remember, we’re comparing with the very best here, as we should at United. I’d say Fred is an 8/10 but that’s about it
There is a huge amount of middle-ground between “waste of money” and “best player ever” and most people seem to want to label players as one of the two.
What I see in Fred is a player who is good at covering ground and breaking up attacks who is also getting much better at shielding the ball from opponents.
I still think his passing is very average. It usually takes an extra touch to get himself set and his passes are not quite hit hard enough or accurately enough to really open teams up or launch attacks.
Remember, we’re comparing with the very best here, as we should at United. I’d say Fred is an 8/10 but that’s about it
He’s brilliant at his job. He fulfills his role in the team perfectly. He’s not meant to be getting rave reviews or slated in a fully functioning team. He’s just quietly meant to be knitting it all together. He’s so good at his job and our attackers are so blunt that he needs to step in and do part of their job for them too and he never shirks responsibility even on his bad days. As I’ve said over and over. Assists from midfield this season in the league. 1 from McT. Pogba who is world class on his day, where are all his assists and creative play that regularly carve the opposition up? It’s not there. what does he offer defensively? Nothing much. Does he regularly run the middle for us and neutralise the opposition? No.Scoring the odd goal from the edge of the area is the only thing that our other midfielders regularly do better then him. Everything else, quick passing through the lines with variety and risk that doesn’t always come off, beats the press. Sets the tempo and initiates our press with Bruno, insane workrate, non stop tacking and tracking he's outperforming all of them.
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He's a good player, a very good player at times but he doesn't have enough ability to really be something special in my opinion. I looked at his stats from last year when everyone was raving about him and compared them with some of our past midfielders and he doesn't really excel at much. Sample was picked due to amount of games (bear in mind Fred has played 1 or 2 games less than the comparison but I doubt it'd make much difference). It'll be interesting to see how they compare at the end of this season.
I think he could be a very useful squad player but you can find an upgrade I think.
| Games | Tackles made/ interceptions | passes/ pass completion | goals/ assists | ||
| Roy Keane 04-05 | 31 | 160 / 47 | 2,210/ 89% | 1/2 | |
| Michael Carrick 11-12 | 30 | 90/71 | 2,192/ 90% | 2/3 | |
| Ander Herrera 15-16 | 31 | 84/81 | 2,089/ 87% | 1/6 | |
| Fred 19-20 | 29 | 60/38 | 1668/87% | 0/0 |
I think he could be a very useful squad player but you can find an upgrade I think.
Bruno is majorly distorting those numbers. Check pogbas numbers since last year. Same thing
I'm not talking about goals and assists, I'm talking about his ability on the ball, which I believe is average. McTominay, Matic and Pogba all look after the ball much better than Fred does. What Fred has over those players is raw ground speed and nuisance factor.
So going back to my original point, yes, he is a 'good' player, yes he is a useful player to have, but no I don't believe he is 'underrated' - he's just in there doing the job about as well as you would expect a £50m Manchester United player to be doing it.
Fred is overvalued, not underrated. He is an average player with too many weaknesses to be part of long term plans at United. He is lightweight and easily brushed aside. His tackling is bad (but so was Scholes'), his passing is erratic, and he can't shoot to save his life. Fred can be useful but we absolutely need an upgrade on him. Fred's best games he turns in a 7/10 performance, but most are 5/10.
Shows what a beast keane was when comparing his oldest version for us still pretty much tops the others.
Ok just to compare to Pogba who cost 89 million and earns about 3 times as much. I’m only talking about in the deeper role here since Bruno came in. Doesn’t really assist. Doesn’t track back press or tackle. Often slows our play way down looking for a more difficult pass that doesn’t come off and takes too many touches. Costs us goals. His long ball makes us more predictable and he’s way too easy to press. That’s without any of the agent transfer stuff. But he still pops up with the odd screamer of a goal.
You can do this for any player if you want to.
How do you mean? I'm not asking aggressively just wondering. Keane, Herrera and Carrick played with attacking midfielders and number 10's in Scholes, Rooney, etc and those players all had a similar role to Bruno in the team. Keane, Carrick, Fred etc role is to get tackles/ interceptions in, recycle possession, keep the ball moving and provide balance. Fred does it well for the most part. Could we do better? I think so.
You might argue that Fred is playing in the worst team of the bunch but those other United sides weren't exactly brilliant either (bar 11-12 season)
So nowadays we usually play 2 defensive players behind Bruno so instead of being the sole defensive/box to box player in the middle in a much better attacking team and getting the stats that back that up. fred is often further up the pitch pressing to get it to Bruno as fast as possible. He’s not constantly getting the ball from gk and spreading play like the others used to either. We are playing a different system and he’s playing a different role.
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Why is Pogba's transfer fee and wages even remotely relevant to the conversation? Fred himself cost too much for what we've got if you want to go down that road.
noted. I’m just trying to say its easy list out the things you don’t like about a player without considering his team mates pros and cons for context. Also Look at opposition players in the same position. Not many if any in this league statistically are a major upgrade so I don’t understand the constant strong feelings against him even when he has a good game. He’s not a match winner but every successful team has players that’ll gladly do the dirty work and lay it off for their more creative teammates. It’s getting that balance right that makes a team great but in this case our forwards aren’t taking their chances or creating nearly enough for each other. Fred was brought in to hold together the Pogba matic midfield and do the heavy lifting for them but he’s the one playing the most now? He must be doing something right.
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Agree. He’s completely unremarkable and bang average at the top level. A decent squad player.
This is a weird thread. He’s probably slightly overrated on here. I like him - he’s a decent midfielder with good energy - but I don’t regard him as an indispensable part of our team.
It is a weird thread. Fred is okay, I think he's an indispensable bench player if a CDM gets injured, but as a starting 11 he's more of the quality of Everton, West Ham.
Couple of things to note:
1) He doesn't have a good first touch on the ball, you often seem him fumbling to recover it (Hence he had eight yellow cards last year topping United's list)
2) He's rarely placed with Pogba, and is always paired with another center defensive midfield type, which suggests Oli doesn't trust him to be a CDM....this may change
3) He's not a creative passer, which is why United's offensive often dries up when they pair Fred/Mctominay, or Fred/Matic
4) At 27 he's now in his prime, United might want to consider selling him while he's at top value.
Fred is valuable asset because he is a tenacious workhorse, which does create openings for the team. I like him, a lot, but we need a CDM, so we can have two attacking minded midfielders instead of one.
They dont get to play 120 passes without pressure. Henderson creates more in a few minutes than Fred in a game
nope. Henderson just has had far more creativity and cohesion around him for the last few years. He also regularly has Gini or Fabinho in there working just as hard with him. Not much creativity there at all but they let their wingbacks and 3 attackers and one of the midfielders, usually Gini get forward without worrying about the counter
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Nonsense. He constantly plays passes forward for Salah and Mane to chase after and press. Watch a Liverpool game
Nonsense yourself. so does Fred you just choose not to acknowledge it. We also play with a pure attacker as one of our 3 which pretty drastically changes what we need in there. Liverpool also have just had a much better and more settled team than us. Not his fault our forwards won’t pass or can’t pass to each other once they get it.
Henderson: 1 assist in the league with a world class experienced attack in front of him and his regular midfield partners and Thiago in beside him. Deadly alright
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