That’s more to do with Matic having to start if Fred doesn’t.
17
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That’s more to do with Matic having to start if Fred doesn’t.
Telling ya @Pogue Mahone he’s the Robin to Bruno’s Batman. I don’t get how people aren’t seeing it. Bruno plays better with Fred in the team.
Have we lost a game when they both play? Last I can think of was when we beat Newcastle 3-1.
Matic/McT combo never seems to work, I agree.
EDIT: matic/fred was bad against Palace, mind you.
He was like the Tazmanian devil when he came on, running around crashing into players.
Usually coincides with cup games where there is a fair chance Rashford and or Shaw don’t start either. We have three or four top players. If you take any of them out, there’s a very good chance we’ll be shit. Fred is not one of those three or four. There’s a very good chance we’ll be shit regardless.
Matics legs have went. He’ll look decent enough against sides who give him time and space but he’s too slow.
Fred should be McTominays back up. They shouldn’t be playing together.
Not just cup games. We’ve lost 4 league games this season. Fred didn’t start in 3 of them. The only league defeat he did start was when Arsenal beat us thanks to an idiotic penalty conceded by Pogba.
Same trend in CL matches. Didn’t start in Istanbul defeat. Sent off when PSG beat us. Didn’t start in Red Bull defeat.
But you were talking about shit performances. We’ve won plenty of the cup games we’ve been shit in too.
Not sure why Pogba’s foul against Arsenal is ‘idiotic’, but Fred getting sent off goes without adjectives. This was a red card received after he was lucky not to get sent off about 40 minutes earlier than he did. Fred has played in a lot of shit performances. And was a mainstay in a team that couldn’t score for shit against the ‘big 6’.
We were already losing when he got himself sent off to be fair.
The red card was a bad/incorrect decision. A referee conned by Hererra’s cheating. Should have been a free-kick to United. The Pogba penalty was idiotic, by any definition.
Fred has been involved in some poor performances. I’d agree with that. But you can’t really ignore the fact we’ve only lost one game he played 90 minutes of and 6 he didn’t. Nor can you ignore the fact he’s been involved in (and usually played very well, as an individual) in every one of our best performances this season. I would struggle to name a single good team performance in a game he didn’t start. Can you? That’s a fairly consistent pattern.
We were but we were playing well. Looked the more likely team to score.
We conceded a minute before Fred got sent off.
Worded that badly then! We were playing well though. First 15-20 minutes of that half we were all over them.
I don't disagree with your general point mate, we do tend to play better when Fred plays. As much as his passing technique hurts my eyes.
I'm just being a bit of a grumpy pedantic cnut tonight.
Yeah, but he gave the ref a chance to send him off by going for a tackle he couldn’t win. And should’ve been sent off in the first half of that game. Being lucky doesn’t change the idiocy.
Well, the first two games we lost were after no pre season and being a man down after 20 minutes. I’m not sure you can draw much from that data.
That leaves Istanbul, Sheffield United and Leipzig. In the first two we started with Tuanzebe at centre back. Which is usually worth a goal start to the opposition. We’re probably a slightly better team with him him than without him at the moment. That says more about others than him for me though. It’s not like we haven’t dropped bad points when he has started.
And let’s not forget, we were winning when he came on tonight. Not to say us drawing was his fault, it wasn’t, but we didn’t see any improvement when he came on. Quite the opposite.
I’d struggle to name many good performances all season to be honest. You could count on one hand our really good performances this season. And he’s been a mainstay.
Matic-Fred seemed to work well last season, but this season I think it's struggled every time. Which is disappointing as it was the combination I thought would be our strongest after last seasons performances.
The Everton first half (which was McTominay-Pogba until Pogba went off towards the end) was probably the best we've played all season. But yes, that's about the only one we've played well in without him.
He has plenty of tempo off the ball. Not so much on it
Wasnt he playing AM yesterday?
It was not his position and he looked useless there.
It was not his position and he looked useless there.
You are confusing his overall passing with his short, quick passing. In our main midfield he makes the most passes, has by far the most short passes, makes the most passes forward and other than Pogba has the most touches. In all those figures he is a good 20% above McTominay. He is the one who always shows for the ball and keeps it moving. Of our deep sitting players he's also the worst for losing the ball. He's definitely not somebody you bring on for the last 10 minutes in the pissing rain.
Just because he doesnt make through balls doesnt mean he cant pass.
If he had the vision to make through balls with ease he wouldnt be running around the pitch and he would be more settled deeper on the pitch as a DLP.
If he had the vision to make through balls with ease he wouldnt be running around the pitch and he would be more settled deeper on the pitch as a DLP.
I wish people would just talk about Fred's performances here instead of bringing up price tags, same for Maguire. If anything it's a management criticism, not a player one.
I don't care about his passing % when people that rate Fred more highly than I do bring up that statistic to defend his subpar passing, I'm not going to care about it now either. Obviously you were able to see his passing was poor, that's why you looked it up in the first place. Useless stat.
Our entire team crumbled after the subs and formation change and Fred's in poor form right now.
I don't care about his passing % when people that rate Fred more highly than I do bring up that statistic to defend his subpar passing, I'm not going to care about it now either. Obviously you were able to see his passing was poor, that's why you looked it up in the first place. Useless stat.
Our entire team crumbled after the subs and formation change and Fred's in poor form right now.
This is personally the thing I really cant stand, hate and dont ever understand.
Why does it matter how our money is being spent? It's like the fans believe this is their direct tax money and it should be treated with more ability. Our stadium attendees are either the small bunch of regular attendees or complete tourist attractions. Even then our match attendees is only a portioned part of our money. Literally the fact that we are Manchester United extends the price of any transfer
Its utter rubbish. 'Person A' will cry about how the transfer money is spent, who its spent on and how much was spent - but it was never Person A's money and neither were they going to stop or change how much is spent and who its spent on.
Neymar is one of the biggest waste of money so far in world football but it doesn't matter because it was never our money. Likewise buying Maguire in a way that tempts Leicester was a business done which does not effect us or we have an influence on because we as individuals are simply not important to the club more than a individual player like Maguire.
Talking about the money as the way of rating the player is something that angers yet bores me to death. Talk about their performances because the price costing to buy a player will not turn back in time and change all of a sudden.
I know loads of people where to blame for the equaliser but what was that pass where he gave possession back to Milan.
Hit it to the corner FFS.
One of the worst passers of the ball I've ever seen in a United midfield
Now it should have been a handball but that pass has zero IQ and zero quality written all over it.
Hit it to the corner FFS.
One of the worst passers of the ball I've ever seen in a United midfield
Now it should have been a handball but that pass has zero IQ and zero quality written all over it.
He's made far worse passes that didn't result in goals against us, but I guess some people are unable to see poor play for what it is and resort to result-based analysis instead, like so:
We don't play well when Fred starts, we play better when Fred starts instead of Matic/McTominay. Correlation does not imply causation.
I wasn't judging him based on the outcome or on this one pass. My comments are based on years of him being here.
He chose the complete wrong pass here. Why try to to Greenwoods feet. Put it down the line for him to run on to.
Haha how on earth is it a useless stat haha he was one of the subs! Part of the problem!!
Needs to be more consistent in his play. Reckless it the perfect word for him. He can pick a nice pass. He can show some great touches/split second decisions. But overall, it's all so frenatic and hit & miss, that many others including me have said it - that he always looks like a teenage talent, and seems unable to achieve consistency and precision in his football. He's 28 now, I doubt he's going find that extra level and at this level, he should be a squad player rather than automatic starter. Problem is, we already have Mctominay starting and he can't pass at all. Then you've got AWB to the right of them and it makes a right mess of any quality ball retention to have three clumsy weak passers of the ball in important areas of the buildup positions. Not to mention Bruno is a high risk taker and none of our forwards is a playmaking type either.
True, its the other things that tell us he can't pass
Personally I just don’t really “get” Fred as a player. Other than running around a lot I really have no idea what he does.
For me, Fred is the weakest link in our midfield right now and we would look miles better with a proper DM/Deep Lying Playmaker in his stead (prime Carrick would be a perfect fit - as things are though, I would go for Rice)
For me, Fred is the weakest link in our midfield right now and we would look miles better with a proper DM/Deep Lying Playmaker in his stead (prime Carrick would be a perfect fit - as things are though, I would go for Rice)
he's a Coventry player. Anderson was better than Fred.
Were not challenging for a league ever with him in the 1st 11.
Were not challenging for a league ever with him in the 1st 11.
I think this more stems from the instructions of forcing it forwards as quick as possible at every opportunity. We aren't patient enough with the ball.
Instead of playing 2/3 passes to make it up the pitch we want 1 big long ball all the time.
It should have been handball but I agree trying a % pass there in 90 minutes was silly, but this is the game management our team needs to learn. We should be passing it around and keeping the ball for a minute to kill time.
His decision making and lack of composure at times is shocking. Now and then he'll just do something completely bizarre or mess up the simplest of passes under very little pressure. Those are the minority, usually his passing is fine and when he has no pressure on him he spreads the play well enough with his range of passes with both feet. For the most part though he moves the ball at a slow tempo and doesnt deliver those longer passes quickly when they are more dangerous when a winger or wide player can get an opponent one on one. He does find some progressive passes through the middle to players 45 yards from goal occasionally. Those can be useful
Man Utd 1:0 West Ham
Hopefully that's the start of him getting back into form. He dominated the midfield tonight bar about 10 minutes after West Ham made the changes, and he started a number of our best attacking moves with his passing up through the centre.
He was decent today. For once looked like he maybe tired a bit near the end but thought he was one of the better players.
Samba football? More like Chris Samba. He can't take the ball under pressure, he can't pass under pressure and, even with space, his use of the ball is flatter than a pancake. John O'Shea was a better centre midfielder IMO. The fact he's one of our most expensive signings ever is actually laughable.
He was really good today.
I like him, but as long as he's our starting midfielder we won't win big prizes.
Hardly put a foot wrong. Good performance from both him and Maguire, haters must be seething seeing them play well
Hardly put a foot wrong. Good performance from both him and Maguire, haters must be seething seeing them play well
He put a lot of feet wrong. Gave the ball away loads in the first half. Was good off the ball. But that is not an elite midfielder, thought Rice was a level above him today.
Maguire was good, but anyone who understands football rather than memes will not be surprised by that. He's one of the best cbs in the league.
Haters will always hate. The forum this years scapegoat.....
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