yes it does in a funny way. If he tries to pass it and messes it up, they can counter. If he shoots and it goes out for a goal kick , we get chance to get back in shape. If it goes for a corner, we get another chance at a corner.
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yes it does in a funny way. If he tries to pass it and messes it up, they can counter. If he shoots and it goes out for a goal kick , we get chance to get back in shape. If it goes for a corner, we get another chance at a corner.
So the future is , let “Fred have a shot, off target , so our defense can get back in shape. “
OR
“if it goes for a corner, we get another chance at a corner.”
I’m only a newbie on this forum . I am not someone who insults but, gonna bow out due to drivel like this.
Do you see then take the ball to the corner in the last minute? Or players making sure that instead of a goal kick trying to get a throw in? This is one of those things. For the players standing at the end of the box, don't do anything that they can turn over and counter attack.
Well as you are a full Member with +8000 posts i respect that.
However, your reply is just drivel.
So Fred shooting in 30th minute is like taking ball to corner flag in last minute ?
Really.
Depends what you mean by below average. Below what a Man Utd midfielder average should be? Yes. Below a PL midfielder average? No. People saying that are showing a classic grass is always greener attitude.
It's not drivel. Herrera used to do the same thing and he said in an interview that he was told to do it by the manager for that exact reason. Can't remember if it was LVG or Mourinho.
If they are in that kind of position around the box and there are no good options to pass to, there's a real danger of being outnumbered in a counter attack if we lose the ball. Fred/Herrera are near the box, at least one of our fullbacks will be pushed up if not both, all our attackers will be up there. It leaves just the two centre backs and sometimes the other central midfielder to cover. So the manager wanted Herrera just to go for the shot so we'd either score, get a corner off a deflection or at worst concede a goalkick which would give us time to regain our shape.
Fred does occasionally take unnecessary shots when there are better options, but most of the time it's when there isn't really any other options. Of course the quality of his shots are often terrible, but he does seem to be getting closer recently with a few going just wide or forcing a good save.
I am so confused by this discussion 
In the Man City game? Did he make 10 passes and miss 1?
Bring up the evidence then.
I was being sarcastic.
usually his defenders just come along and trot out a pass completion stat as proof he is a fantastic player.
The quality of his passing is really awful, probably above the PL average for his type of midfielders but a handicap for a team like ours.
I Think you misinterpreted my post there. Busquets and Davids were just random examples that quickly came to my mind, that I think most are familiar with. I could have named 10 better playmakers than Fred that aren't Busquets and 10 stronger/taller destroyers that aren't Ndidi.
The relevance is that just like Fred, Davids and Park both got praise for having lungs for two. They both weren't the best footballers in their respective teams. Their technique was quite a lot better than Fred's and it allowed them to pass the ball properly or actually hit the target when shooting.
Did you ignore the Ndidi example in my post to make your straw man or do you believe that bar is too high as well?
From the Antlantic article:
Fred is great at intercepting balls, but I have a problem with the next two stats:
Above average at tackling. Fred attempts a lot of tackles, but with a success rate of 44% as opposed Pogba's 77% (!) and McTominay's 47%.
It's a very selective stat to use or a wrong conclusion based on all the stats. I seriously doubt he's much better at tackling than most in the league. It's not as if there's no downside to a failed tackle. There is.
Fred's passing fails the eyeball test. A mishit sideways pass over 8 meters that requires a run from the receiver to keep it in counts as a successful pass. It's not like he makes risky passes. He fails simple ones.
Slight above average on the ball isn't good enough and is worse than most of our squad. Do I care he's better on the ball than the defensive mid of Sheffield or Burnley? No, and neither should you.
ETA: The background info on the DM role in Brazil was interesting and the article had some really good points about Utd's midfield. Just wanted to highlight the above for criticism.
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What's the difference between a tackle or an interception?
You can say Fred is not great at tackling when chasing back due to having short legs, he often fails to reach the ball on the other side of an opponent - where as AWB is a god at this due to long spider legs.
Where Fred does most of his ball winning though is smelling the danger, using his speed and agility to quickly pounce on an opponents first touch and nick it away. He does this so regularly, he doesn't let the opponents midfield settle. There's no coincidence that with him and Fernandes in the team we are able to turn the ball over a lot faster and counter better.
He suits a pressing side perfectly. His energy, speed and work rate are all the qualities you'd ask for.
Is it a coincidence that since Fred came into the team we've beaten City away 3 times? I don't think so.
Tackling is when you regain possession by challenging the opponent. And Fred is short and weak compared to Pogba, hence the difference in success rate.
I agree with you that he's:
- bad at tackling
- very smart off the ball when we're not in possession
- good at regaining possession thanks to his physical attributes and brain
- good at pressing and a perfect fit for a pressing machine
I agree with almost everything you wrote, I just don't think Fred is the endgame. I look at all of our first XI players and compare them to top teams, and I think Fred is one of the weakest links, together with RW and striker.
He was typically Fred vs City, his passing and touch to me seemed exceptionally bad but yet he was still critical to so much of the good we did. To me he’s essential to this team but then I always think our midfield isn’t good enough.
In an ideal world Pogba gets fit, plays at his best and we bring someone in who is better than Fred and McT but can bring what both of those guys do for our midfield. Because we would need a grafter like those two but one of better quality maybe on the ball but not sure one really exists that can do both of their jobs.
In an ideal world Pogba gets fit, plays at his best and we bring someone in who is better than Fred and McT but can bring what both of those guys do for our midfield. Because we would need a grafter like those two but one of better quality maybe on the ball but not sure one really exists that can do both of their jobs.
.....because no manager is going to play someone who can't. You are factually wrong because like lots of fans, you are making broad brush statements. Right about now, it's a Thursday and I'll come back to you after watching Utd tonight to see if Fred passes the ball to a Utd player.
I am so confused by this discussion
Me too......just goes to show none of us know what we are taking about. The one thing that's a fact is Fred is a Utd player and general plays in the big games.
I’m not being funny. But if you are arguing that a professional footballer can pass. You win.
I’m arguing about the actual level of his passing. Stop replying back to me with your overall general stupidity.
Man Utd 1:1 AC Milan
Can't think of anything he did right. Useless cameo.
Nothing performance, don't really understand why he played in no.10 position really. Milan goal actually started from his horrible passes that lead to their attack
No I'm arguing that Ole isn't going into playing against PSG et al playing a player that can't pass. Basically he's handing the advantage to the other team. You know how stupid that sounds?
Trying to challenge Fosu Mensah and Tuanzebe for worst subs ever.
Pointless sub. Raining so hard you cant see across the pitch so we bring on the player that relies on touch, control and quick passing the most.
So, of all the players today people jump on a sub when we went ultra-defensive.
I'm done. On here people now are blaming him for substituting himself into that position and attempting a through ball which the player hand balled anyway.....
£50m!
Shaktar must have laughed their heads off when the bid came in. The lad can't take the ball under pressure, can't pass under pressure, can't dribble under pressure. He might look a £50m midfielder in a league where you get more space than you would camping in the Lake District, at the top level he's utterly lacking though. Running around and getting in people's faces isn't enough.
He was brought on to help us see the game out, it was him giving away the ball when there was an easy square to Amad that led to Milan regaining possession and starting the attacking passage that led to their goal. In no world is Fred superior to Ander Herrera. Should've renewed Ander after Stockholm and put that £50m towards a real player.
Shaktar must have laughed their heads off when the bid came in. The lad can't take the ball under pressure, can't pass under pressure, can't dribble under pressure. He might look a £50m midfielder in a league where you get more space than you would camping in the Lake District, at the top level he's utterly lacking though. Running around and getting in people's faces isn't enough.
He was brought on to help us see the game out, it was him giving away the ball when there was an easy square to Amad that led to Milan regaining possession and starting the attacking passage that led to their goal. In no world is Fred superior to Ander Herrera. Should've renewed Ander after Stockholm and put that £50m towards a real player.
Remember when people thought we could still recoup £50m for him? Or that he was worth more than £50m to us. He's a bang average midfielder who can't pass or shoot to save his life. Horrible cameo.
Bring on the blame for his 20 minutes and keeper mistake that saw them equalise. Jesus lads. Give it a rest. Who was good for us today?
Fred ?
That was no doubt a useless cameo, but that description is about the complete opposite of what he is
Fred wasn't exceptionally bad, our team just fell apart after the switch to 5-3-2.
The man is given responsibilities he shouldn't have without Pogba next to him. Kind of felt Ole abused him by bringing him on for a 10.
The man is given responsibilities he shouldn't have without Pogba next to him. Kind of felt Ole abused him by bringing him on for a 10.
Saying a professional footballer can't pass shouldn't be taken literally and is obviously hyperbole.
Can you name any footballers who can't pass?
Fred can certainly pass a football to another player, they all can. If that's the bar we're setting here it's a very low one.
Fred ?
That was no doubt a useless cameo, but that description is about the complete opposite of what he is
If you watch him you'll know it's exactly what he is. It's why we need him to play with a high tempo.
Shit cameo and I usually defend him. Did nothing
the formation change was strange af though we lost any momentum we had and just invited them onto us. Why bring on two wing backs at all. Another weird call by Ole.
Haven’t we 100% record this season of conceding when we go five at the back to protect a lead?
And don’t get me started on going five at the back to protect a lead when we’re one nil up in the home leg of a two legged tie.
We have been watching him about 3 years now 2 games a week. He's definitely not a player with control and fast touch.
Yes he plays with high tempo but that for Fred means pressing and running a lot, not one touch football. He's shit at it.
As some have mentioned before the game, we only had Shaw and Amad on the bench who can turn things around offensively and they were already on. The only one he didn't bring on was Axel and imagine the reaction here if it was him who fecked up again to concede a goal.
Even if we made those exact same substitutes we didn’t have to change formation. Shaw could have played LB and Telles LW (or vice versa)
It’s nearly always a guaranteed horror show when we have to hang on whoever we bring on or whoever is in goal. I think it has something to do with starting/bringing Matic on too, it’s no coincidence we looked like we are just hanging on all game whenever he plays. We invite more pressure than we can deal with and we are way too slow to get it forward. He basically sits in the middle of the 2 defenders making an awkward 3/5 man defence in matches we should be dominating. he runs forward 10 yards the odd time and then mostly just passes the ball backwards and covers Shaw when he goes forward. The few times this season he went forward for the overload and 1/2s on the edge of the oppos box he’s looked ok but not losing the ball and recycling possession is literally all he offers now apart from height but he’s not good in the air either. I can’t remember the last time he turned possesion over deep and got a lovely ball forward. I can actually Brighton away last season. Nothing before and nothing since.
You probably could have cleaned up betting on us to choke this season when holding onto a one goal lead going into the last 10 minutes. I wish Ole would stop making the same mistakes on repeat but we have very few options left in the squad to actually bring on either. It’s telling enough when he had to bring on Shaw and Williams to freshen it up. They were negative subs though and we got what we deserved in the end
If I’m reading the stats right his passing % was 57!
That is absolutely atrocious
I was curious because I couldn’t remember him making a completed pass
was absolutely useless when he came on.
Miles off the pace when he came on. Not a good cameo. Although the conditions and general confusion about our formation didn’t help.
Also quite funny the way so many people still refuse to see the connection between Fred starting and us playing well. Because when he doesn’t start the chances of us putting in a good team performance seem to be slim to none.
Also quite funny the way so many people still refuse to see the connection between Fred starting and us playing well. Because when he doesn’t start the chances of us putting in a good team performance seem to be slim to none.
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