[stevoc]

Jesus and i like Fred, how dare i criticize an aspect of his game.

 

[Raven]

Surely the massive difference on opinion is coming from his style of play? He has a weird awkward style that makes it look like he's never fully on control but then we're always in more control as a team when he plays.

I love Fred but can see his weaknesses, his passing can be a little erratic, his tendency to press high and hard often leads to him being dribbled past and his first touch is occasionally heavy. I the same sense though, he is capable of very high level passing but let's himself down at times, although his eagerness in the press can lead to him being dribbled past, he almost always recovers and gets back into position in time and if the initial press is successful, we're countering from a very dangerous position. Lastly on his touch, much like his passing, it is generally to a very high standard but can be erratic, I feel he gets caught up in moments of indecision which lead to him taking a heavy touch.

 

[stevoc]

Surely the massive difference on opinion is coming from his style of play? He has a weird awkward style that makes it look like he's never fully on control but then we're always in more control as a team when he plays.

I love Fred but can see his weaknesses, his passing can be a little erratic, his tendency to press high and hard often leads to him being dribbled past and his first touch is occasionally heavy. I the same sense though, he is capable of very high level passing but let's himself down at times, although his eagerness in the press can lead to him being dribbled past, he almost always recovers and gets back into position in time and if the initial press is successful, we're countering from a very dangerous position. Lastly on his touch, much like his passing, it is generally to a very high standard but can be erratic, I feel he gets caught up in moments of indecision which lead to him taking a heavy touch.

Yeah you are probably right he just looks so awkward with his passing. Ultimately @MadDogg is probably right he is a decent passer in that he completes most of his simple passes.

But watching him try to pass is not easy on the eye. I've always felt if a player doesn't look comfortable/graceful when passing then they're not a good passer of the ball.

 

[OldTrevil]

Brings so much to our midfield and his passing if far from terrible. He can improve the consistency but more often than not delivers the needed passes to move us forward from deep in a smart way. Rarely shies away from the ball as well and constantly gives his parner options to evade the press. If I played a double pivot, Fred Pogba would be my first choice combination in many games, with McT and VdB replacing Fred in easier midfield battles where they would often join in the attack.

 

[Raven]

Yeah you are probably right he just looks so awkward with his passing. Ultimately @MadDogg is probably right he is a decent passer in that he completes most of his simple passes.

But watching him try to pass is not easy on the eye. I've always felt if a player doesn't look comfortable/graceful when passing then they're not a good passer of the ball.

I get you, it's always nicer to watch smoother, silkier players but that doesn't mean we should discount players abilities just because they're a little less easy on the eye. Fred's incredibly effective at almost everything he does but doesn't look as good doing it as some less effective players, for me that's fine, he makes our team better and that's all that matters.

 

[stevoc]

I get you, it's always nicer to watch smoother, silkier players but that doesn't mean we should discount players abilities just because they're a little less easy on the eye. Fred's incredibly effective at almost everything he does but doesn't look as good doing it as some less effective players, for me that's fine, he makes our team better and that's all that matters.

I don't discount what he brings to the table outside of his passing. He's become an important player for us especially in big games where his work rate and ability to break up play shines.

 

[Raven]

I don't discount what he brings to the table outside of his passing. He's become an important player for us especially in big games where his work rate and ability to break up play shines.

I'm not saying you discounted what he brings, I'm saying you might be discounting his passing ability because he can hit a couple of stinkers and his technique is weird but generally speaking he's a very effective passer of the ball.

 

[Kostov]

I actually agree with that, but they'd have to show it consistently and honestly I'd be surprised if they did. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

Consistency is something we lack from everyone to be fair, especially Pogba. The only thing consistent about our midfielders is that they all seem to disappoint sooner or later. The only thing left to cling on is their best days. If Fred was a pure CDM by trade his consistent work rate would have made him indispensable in our line up despite his lack of talent, in his profile of player I feel it's not enough.

 

[Ali Dia]

Consistency is something we lack from everyone to be fair, especially Pogba. The only thing consistent about our midfielders is that they all seem to disappoint sooner or later. The only thing left to cling on is their best days. If Fred was a pure CDM by trade his consistent work rate would have made him indispensable in our line up despite his lack of talent, in his profile of player I feel it's not enough.

Compared to who else in the league? You say he’s not talented enough and also say Pogba isn’t consistent enough in the same post. I’m sure most think Pogba is much more talented but we need someone who’s effective consistently like Fred.

 

[stevoc]

I'm not saying you discounted what he brings, I'm saying you might be discounting his passing ability because he can hit a couple of stinkers and his technique is weird but generally speaking he's a very effective passer of the ball.

Yeah very possibly mate. I know one thing i certainly don't enjoy watching him in a game like the other night where most of our passing goes through him.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Yes.

I rate a players passing by their ability to consistently complete difficult passes. Pass completion rate is largely irrelevant some players regularly play brilliant passes that their teammates just can't get on the end of or the opposition defender does well to cut out. Yet those go down as failed passes according to stats.

Se my post above in reply to @MadDogg i'm not a fan of using stats to judge a players passing ability.

I have a hard relationship with stats as well as they don’t always paint the full picture. Just too many different unregistered variables whilst watching a game of football especially in an attacking sense.

This will surely get me heat as not many will understand it, but to me Bruno is a very inventive and creative passer but he’s not a great passer. If you watch his passing inbetween the fantastic passes he tries it’s quite poor. Too soft, bobbiling, behind the player weird height just making it hard for other players to control when it should be a simple one. Not to mention the amount of times he just completely misses the target trying a 10 yard pass. Comparing it to Carricks quality of pass , sure he wasn’t trying as difficult or progressive passes as Bruno, but the quality at what Carrick could pass at was top notch. He could fizz a flat ball at you that you didn’t even have to think about the touch it was that good.

Not saying Fred does that either but in terms of progressing play Fred is pretty good and although I admit sometimes he’ll give a hospital pass or for some reason put way too much heat on a ball more often that not his ball in to the player is of a good quality.

Nothing bugs me more in a game than those weird passes midfielders play across field that are played big and loopy that take an age to reach their destination. Just you can put a bit of “swazz” on it so it looks cool to the kids. All our midfielders and defenders are guilty of that one. Either commit to it and drive it or don’t do it at all.

Holding him to the highest standard he is never going to have the quality of a carrick, but given on the pitch he and Bruno have two different roles Fred does what he needs to do well. As does Bruno. If people are only going to rate someone as a good passer by trying a creative ball over the top And spamming it enough times that eventually one of them will hit pay dirt then we have no hope.

Recently it seems we’ve cut out that over adventurous passing and have actually looked a much better team with being more patient and trying to work the ball around which is another plus point of Fred as he doesn’t sit and watch his passes. Most of the time he runs in to space to give his partners a passing option or just covers them so they can move forward.

Fred is criminally underrated by the CAF. To me he was Motm in the last game.

 

[Raven]

Yeah very possibly mate. I know one thing i certainly don't enjoy watching him in a game like the other night where most of our passing goes through him.

Yeah, he should be playing with Pogba in our starting pivot I think, that way Pogba can do the creating.

 

[jem]

Facts say otherwise, he's a far more progressive player than Kante for example who was hailed as one of the leagues best midfielders. He's not even that much worse on the ball than the players you mentioned. He's much more press resistant than when he first arrived and is more than capable of playing the ball into our strikers. The only pass he lacks is that long ball over the top but you don't need every midfielder able to pull that off. Its a team sport and you need players that compliment and add to others skill sets, the other two partners last night (Matic and VDB would rightly have been expected to shoulder more creative burden and they didn't do much of anything. Fred could play in pretty much every top team in the world, if not as a starter then as a valuable squad player. It seems your assessment is still based on the Fred of his debut season.

If you are going to begin a post with the phrase 'facts say otherwise', it might be a good idea to actually provide some facts (for the record, I like Fred and think he benefits the team, even if he can bewilder at times.)

 

[Ali Dia]

Yeah, he should be playing with Pogba in our starting pivot I think, that way Pogba can do the creating.

On all the evidence with Bruno in the team theres no real need for Pogba other than fitting in star names. That’s the creativity and risk taking quota from midfield sorted. We need to get some creativity in our forward line more than cramming more in the middle of the park slowing things down and taking away work rate and pressing. Pogba should be taking Fred’s place and going box to box but he can’t seem to defend and he still
needs too long on the ball. We can get the ball from a to b faster in 2 passes than waiting for Pogba to make a choice and let the opposition get fully dug in.

 

[jem]

"We won't win title with player x" must be the dumbest argument that's used in every thread.

One player won't win or lose you the titles.

I agree. Ricky on the United Stand was saying the other night that we won't win anything with Rashford as a starter, as if it's all down to Rashford...mind you Ricky also said Martial was our best player in the last match against Sheffield United...

 

[Raven]

On all the evidence with Bruno in the team theres no real need for Pogba other than fitting in star names. That’s the creativity from midfield sorted. We need to get some creativity in our forward line more than cramming more in the middle of the park and slowing things down

Why? He's been excellent lately and defensively better than McTominay as well.

 

[MadDogg]

Jesus and i like Fred, how dare i criticize an aspect of his game.

Criticism is fine, it's more that you are going significantly overboard with the criticism. You're not the only one, it just happened to be your post that was the tipping point of me actually digging into the stats.

Just a few more interesting stats from the league this season:

Completed passes into the attacking 3rd (I believe the passer needs to be outside)
Fred: 6.25 per game
Pogba: 5.83 per game
Matic: 6.76 per game
McTominay: 4.66 per game

Completed passes into the box
Fred: 0.88 per game
Pogba: 1.13 per game
Matic: 0.73 per game
McTominay: 0.36 per game

Passes that led directly to a shot
Fred: 1.01 per game
Pogba: 0.95 per game
Matic: 0.61 per game
McTominay: 0.72 per game

Actions that led to a shot
Fred: 2.71 per game
Pogba: 2.87 per game
Matic: 1.47 per game
McTominay: 1.53 per game

The last one is a bit strange, but my understanding is that if Fred passes it to Pogba, then Pogba passes it to Bruno who takes a shot, both Fred and Pogba get credit as they are the last two offensive actions (passing, dribbling or drawing fouls). I guess it's to give credit to the classic assist the assister. It doesn't include defensive actions which would probably boost Fred's stats even more, as he's regularly the one who gets the ball off the opposition in a dangerous position that quickly leads to a chance.

Bear in mind that Matic and, to a lesser extent, Pogba tend to play against easier teams, it makes Fred's stats even more impressive.

Stats have to be taken within context and any individual stat by themselves doesn't mean much. However when basically every stat available shows that Fred is actually right up there it tends to mean something. Once again I'll stress I'm not saying that he's a great passer, but he's much better than many people in here make out.

 

[stevoc]

I have a hard relationship with stats as well as they don’t always paint the full picture. Just too many different unregistered variables whilst watching a game of football especially in an attacking sense.

This will surely get me heat as not many will understand it, but to me Bruno is a very inventive and creative passer but he’s not a great passer. If you watch his passing inbetween the fantastic passes he tries it’s quite poor. Too soft, bobbiling, behind the player weird height just making it hard for other players to control when it should be a simple one. Not to mention the amount of times he just completely misses the target trying a 10 yard pass. Comparing it to Carricks quality of pass , sure he wasn’t trying as difficult or progressive passes as Bruno, but the quality at what Carrick could pass at was top notch. He could fizz a flat ball at you that you didn’t even have to think about the touch it was that good.

Not saying Fred does that either but in terms of progressing play Fred is pretty good and although I admit sometimes he’ll give a hospital pass or for some reason put way too much heat on a ball more often that not his ball in to the player is of a good quality.

Nothing bugs me more in a game than those weird passes midfielders play across field that are played big and loopy that take an age to reach their destination. Just you can put a bit of “swazz” on it so it looks cool to the kids. All our midfielders and defenders are guilty of that one. Either commit to it and drive it or don’t do it at all.

Holding him to the highest standard he is never going to have the quality of a carrick, but given on the pitch he and Bruno have two different roles Fred does what he needs to do well. As does Bruno. If people are only going to rate someone as a good passer by trying a creative ball over the top And spamming it enough times that eventually one of them will hit pay dirt then we have no hope.

Recently it seems we’ve cut out that over adventurous passing and have actually looked a much better team with being more patient and trying to work the ball around which is another plus point of Fred as he doesn’t sit and watch his passes. Most of the time he runs in to space to give his partners a passing option or just covers them so they can move forward.

Fred is criminally underrated by the CAF. To me he was Motm in the last game.

Yeah at times Bruno's short passing game is sloppy too. Maybe that's just a concentration issue, plays the pass without thinking because he's already trying to plot out the next 1-2 moves. Who knows.

This team desperately needs a passer of the quality of Carrick or Keane in midfield. When Pogba is in there we're ok but as you say he is one of those guilty of indulging in long passes at times.

 

[Ali Dia]

Why? He's been excellent lately and defensively better than McTominay as well.

I just think defensive stability pressing high and simple direct passing is really underrated on here. Pogba could be an awesome box to box player if he actively got involved in the dirty work more and played the simple ball more often. He’s thrived mainly in the Bruno free role here and we don’t need 2 players like that. I think pressing high up and getting the ball forward faster with fewer passes really suits our team due to our forwards pace and the lack of creativity breaking down a low block. Pogbas long ball isn’t effective when teams sit in. We have Bruno the 3 attackers and our wing backs already attacking. We need more creativity somewhere within those 6 positions and the rest should at least provide solid defensive stability which I don’t think Pogba does.

 

[Matt851]

The first half against Everton with McT and Pogba was probably the best half of football we've played in ages. Ultimately that's should be our 2 man midfield.

Agree with this. I do still have some concerns re that combination defensively but seems like our best bet. Particularly as we have struggled to score in all of our games against the big 6, which usually features the mcfred combo

 

[stevoc]

It's more than you are going significantly overboard with the criticism.

Yeah i probably am mate, i just hate watching him pass the ball. It's horrible on the eye to me. The other night i think i audibly groaned about 20 times watching him pass. Most of them got to their target but jesus it wasn't pretty.

Usually I've always watched watch games with my brother or mates and i have someone to listen to my moaning. With lockdowns the only one who will sit with me watching a match now are the dogs and they're not great listeners. So i have to come on here for my catharsis (bitching) after a match now. Poor Fred bore the brunt of my dissatisfaction this week for having to watch 120 minutes of drudgery.

 

[Matt851]

I don't discount what he brings to the table outside of his passing. He's become an important player for us especially in big games where his work rate and ability to break up play shines.

Our record in 'big games' this season is pretty poor. I am not blaming fred for this but our midfield in those games has often looked short on creativity whilst not providing a huge anoubt of control either. Therefore i think its difficult to say fred has shone in those games

 

[bsCallout]

He's so average and the fact that he helps our midfield sometimes isn't reason for him to not be replaced in the starting 11. He should be in his peak too so it's not like he's expected to improve much.

 

[stevoc]

Our record in 'big games' this season is pretty poor. I am not blaming fred for this but our midfield in those games has often looked short on creativity whilst not providing a huge anoubt of control either. Therefore i think its difficult to say fred has shone in those games

Well we did quite well in big games last season when he quite often played. I'm not judging him on this season only.

 

[OrcaFat]

I’ve seen this debate about whether he is a terrible passer or not.

I say not terrible at all. He is okay. His passing is not as good as we’d like for a starting midfielder but he brings plenty of other things to the table so I can understand his frequent selection.

My doubt about Fred becoming a long term regular is him getting ragged and losing the ball, losing his composure, generally struggling when under pressure, especially late on in games. The whole team gets affected by this so it may seem unfair to blame Fred but I think it highlights our lack of a natural leader in CM.

He is a technically able passer but not naturally creative and definitely not cool under pressure.

 

[Kostov]

Compared to who else in the league? You say he’s not talented enough and also say Pogba isn’t consistent enough in the same post. I’m sure most think Pogba is much more talented but we need someone who’s effective consistently like Fred.

Effective in what exactly? He lacks in attacking part and is not enough as a sole defensive midfielder. And compared to who else regarding what? What works for City does not work for us for example. Compared to the team above us he is a handicap, City don’t play such a limited player in their line up and it’s showing imo.

 

[OrcaFat]

Effective in what exactly? He lacks in attacking part and is not enough as a sole defensive midfielder. And compared to who else regarding what? What works for City does not work for us for example. Compared to the team above us he is a handicap, City don’t play such a limited player in their line up and it’s showing imo.

Yes City have better players.

 

[The Irish Connection]

There certainly is a bias. I’m not sure it’s the way you think though. He’s become a player that you aren’t allowed to criticise on here.

I don’t know about that. I’ve seen plenty of criticism of him. He is sloppy with passes sometimes but overall he’s been brilliant for us in the last 12 months or so.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Criticism is fine, it's more that you are going significantly overboard with the criticism. You're not the only one, it just happened to be your post that was the tipping point of me actually digging into the stats.

Just a few more interesting stats from the league this season:

Completed passes into the attacking 3rd (I believe the passer needs to be outside)
Fred: 6.25 per game
Pogba: 5.83 per game
Matic: 6.76 per game
McTominay: 4.66 per game

Completed passes into the box
Fred: 0.88 per game
Pogba: 1.13 per game
Matic: 0.73 per game
McTominay: 0.36 per game

Passes that led directly to a shot
Fred: 1.01 per game
Pogba: 0.95 per game
Matic: 0.61 per game
McTominay: 0.72 per game

Actions that led to a shot
Fred: 2.71 per game
Pogba: 2.87 per game
Matic: 1.47 per game
McTominay: 1.53 per game

The last one is a bit strange, but my understanding is that if Fred passes it to Pogba, then Pogba passes it to Bruno who takes a shot, both Fred and Pogba get credit as they are the last two offensive actions (passing, dribbling or drawing fouls). I guess it's to give credit to the classic assist the assister. It doesn't include defensive actions which would probably boost Fred's stats even more, as he's regularly the one who gets the ball off the opposition in a dangerous position that quickly leads to a chance.

Bear in mind that Matic and, to a lesser extent, Pogba tend to play against easier teams, it makes Fred's stats even more impressive.

Stats have to be taken within context and any individual stat by themselves doesn't mean much. However when basically every stat available shows that Fred is actually right up there it tends to mean something. Once again I'll stress I'm not saying that he's a great passer, but he's much better than many people in here make out.

Thanks for the great summary of stats in your last few posts.

It's basically what I see in Fred's game too. I think he has and is capable of high quality in a lot of different aspects but because of his style, he's not able to do it in a one-note consistent level (not to mention our loose team tactics and coaching). And yet at the same time because of his style i.e he's a high volume puncher, he's also plenty effective whenever one of his many punches land e.g a high press, intensive closing down, a half turn, a sharp pass, work rate, a dribble etc.

He's ungangly but I rate him highly for his effectiveness for us.

For me it's not as simple as saying 'Carrick is 10x the better passer' because there can be many times, where being technically efficient doesn't neccessarily contribute to effective actions. You need volume, intent and passhun too!

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

People are being harsh on Fred because they misinterpret his weakness and forgetting that his weakness doesn't really play big part of the team's failure, if anything his strength playing important part for the team.

Fred doesn't have composure on the ball like Carrick, so sometime you see him giving the ball cheaply out of nowhere, despite of him not having the composure, he still manage to pull 86.7% passing competition which not a bad number. He's also rank 4th in term of making long ball (3.1 Long Ball per game), only Maguire (4.7), Pogba (4) & Bruno (3.7) make more. Passing is not his weakness, he can pass with both feet and he's not a coward like Cleverley.

Fred's end product is definitely his flaw, he doesn't have good shot to score goal and he doesn't have composure on the ball which also effecting his finishing skill but he could actually have 4 assists because he created 4 big chances. Only Bruno (16) & Shaw (7) created more big chances than him at United while only Cavani and Martial created the same amount as him.
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created

Defensively, he is easily dribble passed because of his size, he dribbled passed 2.2 per game which the highest number at United. But his interception 1.6 per game and tackles 1.6 per game are one of the best in our team. No one made more tackles than him at United per game while only Maguire made more interception per game than him (1.8). Defensively, he's very good in breaking up play, and everyone know how great his energy and pressing.

 

[Olecurls99]

I'm sorry but this lad is awful.

All he does is buzz around the pitch and put himself about.

Can't pass, can't take a touch In midfield without being dispossessed and he can't shoot.

Bench player at most. If Pogba goes we have to replace him cause Fred will kill us.

He excels at nothing really.

Buzzing around the pitch is very important, don't you think. That's why we win the ball back in midfield and are able to break on teams. He's one of the best buzzers around.

I agree that his shooting has been poor but he has some of the best passing stats in the league, so I don't know what you or others are on about when you say he can't control and pass the ball. Baffling.

We have an old fashioned midfield pair where one sits and one goes and vice versa. It's one of the best in the league and it only gets beaten when it gets outnumbered. I'm happy with that.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I like him. He's gets around the pitch well and is neat and tidy on the ball but, this is a big one, you wont get anything meaningful from him in a offensive sense and this will continue to be a issue/hinderance when we're gradually developing a more possession based style, as we've seen latterly, against certain opposition.

Its a issue with us and a issue with him. You'll notice the stark contrast in movement infront when Fred has the ball and when someone more capable and adventurous with their passing ,such as Pogba or Bruno, has it.
Players tend to come short more often than not when Fred is in possession. He just hasn't got the variety nor the talent at this level to play those passes.
But, he keeps the ball well and he's a seriously influential figure in our team for upping the tempo in our game.

Even at the age he is, I would still love to see Modric at the club. He would do wonders for us in games where we have the majority of the ball.

 

[Matt851]

Buzzing around the pitch is very important, don't you think. That's why we win the ball back in midfield and are able to break on teams. He's one of the best buzzers around.

I agree that his shooting has been poor but he has some of the best passing stats in the league, so I don't know what you or others are on about when you say he can't control and pass the ball. Baffling.

We have an old fashioned midfield pair where one sits and one goes and vice versa. It's one of the best in the league and it only gets beaten when it gets outnumbered. I'm happy with that.

Some of the best passing stats in the league, really? What are these stats.

Seems to be a lot of people mangling stats on this thread in a desperate attempt to make freds passing seem better than it is.

I like fred but his passing is merely ok (and thats by the standard of defensive midfielders in the league). He is capable of playing some decent passes with his left foot but he does also misplace the simplest of passes at times. In terms of his longer range passing, he seems to drop deep and switch play under no pressure quite regularly so its possible this is padding his long range passing stats. When he tries to play a progressive medium to long range pass further up the pitch it rarely works.

He could be a decent squad option next season but if he continues to be a regular starter it will limit our progression as a team

 

[Raven]

Some of the best passing stats in the league, really? What are these stats.

Seems to be a lot of people mangling stats on this thread in a desperate attempt to make freds passing seem better than it is.

I like fred but his passing is merely ok (and thats by the standard of defensive midfielders in the league). He is capable of playing some decent passes with his left foot but he does also misplace the simplest of passes at times. In terms of his longer range passing, he seems to drop deep and switch play under no pressure quite regularly so its possible this is padding his long range passing stats. When he tries to play a progressive medium to long range pass further up the pitch it rarely works.

He could be a decent squad option next season but if he continues to be a regular starter it will limit our progression as a team

His passing through the lines, whether it be medium or long range, is excellent. Do you think that other deep midfielders don't spend the majority of their time spraying the ball wide? I suggest you try watching some other teams play and see how their midfielders play because the majority of their passes are short and side ways.

 

[Ekeke]

His passing through the lines, whether it be medium or long range, is excellent. Do you think that other deep midfielders don't spend the majority of their time spraying the ball wide? I suggest you try watching some other teams play and see how their midfielders play because the majority of their passes are short and side ways.

He barely ever does it. Its like once every 40 passes.

 

[Ekeke]

Fred is as creative as Tom Cleverley was for us in his best season in terms of key passes. Gets on the ball more than Cleverley or Anderson, plays less through balls than Anderson but plays more long balls. Cleverley was a more accurate passer and his equal key passes came with almost 10 less passes per game on average.

Fred is obviously better defensively than either Cleverley or Anderson at United. Thats not saying much, they werent good at all. But clearly Fred tops them here

Fred plays as many key passes as Cleverley and dribbles more than Anderson. But scores and assists less than both of them and gives the ball away more than Cleverley, less than Anderson

Fred gets the most bookings, wins the ball least in the air

Other than Fred making more tackles and having less assists and goals there isnt that much between them

 

[Olecurls99]

Criticism is fine, it's more that you are going significantly overboard with the criticism. You're not the only one, it just happened to be your post that was the tipping point of me actually digging into the stats.

Just a few more interesting stats from the league this season:

Completed passes into the attacking 3rd (I believe the passer needs to be outside)
Fred: 6.25 per game
Pogba: 5.83 per game
Matic: 6.76 per game
McTominay: 4.66 per game

Completed passes into the box
Fred: 0.88 per game
Pogba: 1.13 per game
Matic: 0.73 per game
McTominay: 0.36 per game

Passes that led directly to a shot
Fred: 1.01 per game
Pogba: 0.95 per game
Matic: 0.61 per game
McTominay: 0.72 per game

Actions that led to a shot
Fred: 2.71 per game
Pogba: 2.87 per game
Matic: 1.47 per game
McTominay: 1.53 per game

The last one is a bit strange, but my understanding is that if Fred passes it to Pogba, then Pogba passes it to Bruno who takes a shot, both Fred and Pogba get credit as they are the last two offensive actions (passing, dribbling or drawing fouls). I guess it's to give credit to the classic assist the assister. It doesn't include defensive actions which would probably boost Fred's stats even more, as he's regularly the one who gets the ball off the opposition in a dangerous position that quickly leads to a chance.

Bear in mind that Matic and, to a lesser extent, Pogba tend to play against easier teams, it makes Fred's stats even more impressive.

Stats have to be taken within context and any individual stat by themselves doesn't mean much. However when basically every stat available shows that Fred is actually right up there it tends to mean something. Once again I'll stress I'm not saying that he's a great passer, but he's much better than many people in here make out.

Good work MadDogg. Hopefully that will help people see that Fred is more than just a terrier.

 

[hubbuh]

Fred is as creative as Tom Cleverley was for us in his best season in terms of key passes. Gets on the ball more than Cleverley or Anderson, plays less through balls than Anderson but plays more long balls. Cleverley was a more accurate passer and his equal key passes came with almost 10 less passes per game on average.

Fred is obviously better defensively than either Cleverley or Anderson at United. Thats not saying much, they werent good at all. But clearly Fred tops them here

Fred plays as many key passes as Cleverley and dribbles more than Anderson. But scores and assists less than both of them and gives the ball away more than Cleverley, less than Anderson

Fred gets the most bookings, wins the ball least in the air

Other than Fred making more tackles and having less assists and goals there isnt that much between them

Fred's numbers in that Fergie team would be miles ahead is basically what I took from this.

 

[Ekeke]

Fred's numbers in that Fergie team would be miles ahead is basically what I took from this.

But they wouldnt would they, because we used to have more of the ball and he does little with it despite having more of the ball than Cleverley or Anderson, and if we have more of the ball maybe he makes less tackles too. He wouldnt suddenly get goals either.

 

[Ekeke]

Jesus and i like Fred, how dare i criticize an aspect of his game.

Its always a little bit dangerous to speak out against a cult