Fred - £47m well spent

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laughtersassassin said:
Was good second half.

But I agree with Roy Keane. He isn't a good Midfielder.
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I also think Keane is right (to an extent). His passing was brutal, at times.

But this is the enigma that is Fred. Throughout ninety minutes he’ll do so many good things. Unfortunately, they’re often complemented by wild pings into the stands. On the whole, the positives outweigh the negatives albeit we should be looking to improve in starting terms.
 
luffy7 said:
As long as he stop doing long passing and long shots, he is always needed in big games. Why? No one does it better when we are out of possession. Not even in form Pogba will go on CM as we will get overrun very easily. You cant replace him with anyone in the squad even though he is shit in passing the ball...
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I more or less agree but look at the three passes he gave for his goal. He does miss hit some passes, who doesnt but I think his passing ain't bad. Look also at the Greenwood goal. Passed to pogba very well
 
As I keep saying, he shouldn't be our main controller and ball-player in midfield but it's a role that he has to play when he partners McTominay or Matic. According to whoscored he ended up making almost 30% more passes than anyone else on the field. If we could partner him with a player who is both defensively solid and a better ball-player we'd be golden.
 
Nick7 said:
Yeah been saying the same for a while. The lad needs a rest, you can see what he's about in spurts when he plays but he's looked so so uncomfortable on the pitch the last few months.
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we really started turning them around facing their own goal. More of that is needed on either side of the striker. Been saying it all season. The inside forward and striker experiment is like when Fergie used to throw on 3 strikers at the end of the game chasing. Thats been our whole tactic this year and it’s not enough. It’s suited Rashford because he’s got no defensive responsibility but it’s clearly not getting the best out of the rest of our forwards
 
He improved as the game went on but still misplaces far too many balls as a midfielder. Pleased he scored, thought he was gonna balloon it over though. :lol:
 
I agree with Keane. But I would say the same for McTominay half the time. I really like both of them (and often they are our best option as a pair) but they just don’t have the technique. The number of times Fred (but also McT) was hurried into a shit pass or hassled into losing the ball was just agony. Well, relative agony, I was mainly too busy enjoying the match today.
 
He had a rare decent game which lets be honest is not enough for United. Has to be more consistent which is t going to happen.
 
I've been tough on him as he's been, well, fecking rubbish. But that was a good second half and some lovely play for our equaliser.
 
Ali Dia said:
:boring:
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Great second half from him but of course he has to perform consistently to be good enough for this football club. He also started the ball like a drunk. Really found his rythme in the second.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I've been tough on him as he's been, well, fecking rubbish. But that was a good second half and some lovely play for our equaliser.
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Not at all as you've been right. He had a great 45 mins and deserved praise (( for 45 mins football )) but let's not forget he's had a really poor season overall.
 
keithsingleton said:
Not at all as you've been right. He had a great 45 mins and deserved praise (( for 45 mins football )) but let's not forget he's had a really poor season overall.
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He’s been very consistent until about Feb and his form went patchy. Can’t be arsed arguing about it with every fan who is watching the games just waiting for Fred to make a mistake. He’s one of the first names on the team sheet
 
Fred is a good player who, like Fernandinho, impressed with Shakhtar and deserved a move to the PL.

However, unlike Fernandinho, he doesn't really have an out and out major role in CM and needs the right blend around him to look at his best (similar to van de Beek).

He offers good energy and work rate, but isn't a good enough defensive midfielder to play that holding role on his own. And he is OK on the ball and can make some attacking contributions, but doesn't offer much end product in terms of direct goals or assists. He's a very useful #8 if the blend of the other midfielders complement his strengths and weaknesses - again, similar to van de Beek.

He's a player that we can definitely do with in the squad but, ideally, as a regular starter, we'd have a better player that's Man United standard in his own right regardless of others around him and who offers more of a major role in either the defensive or attacking part of the game.

But, again, like someone like Daniel James, a very useful player to have in the squad and to pick for certain types of games.
 
I posted earlier that I don’t think his technique is good enough but I totally disagree with posters saying he’s had a poor season. I think he’s been great at what he does well and him and McT have been instrumental in many good results we’ve had. But still they are both the cause of many sticky situations we get into. Even so, there’s no point in getting players who have better technique but lack Fred and McT passion and application. Upgrades on those two guys have to have technique and the right attitude and physical attributes as well. Such players are scarce.
 
MadDogg said:
As I keep saying, he shouldn't be our main controller and ball-player in midfield but it's a role that he has to play when he partners McTominay or Matic. According to whoscored he ended up making almost 30% more passes than anyone else on the field. If we could partner him with a player who is both defensively solid and a better ball-player we'd be golden.
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I am not surprised, he's always available, plays game in much higher pace than any other midfielder we have, maybe bar Bruno if we count him as one. some inaccuracy is expected. What drives me crazy when I see McTominay dwelling on the ball and doing nothing only to pick a very simple pass which even sometimes he fails to pull out. But good point he's not a DLP/DM because he's not flawless passing wise (Who is?) and his immense energy and ball anticipation would be hugely missed.

Yes and well deserved goal, I am sure he's asked to paly more reserved goal when it comes to attacking because he almost always cover for defenders his midfield partner or start the press while his partners are obliged to go foreward more. Today we needed creativity from anywhere and his hunger and quick thinking made him hugely contribute hugely in three goals (great pass for the disallowed goal too).

First I thought he couldhardly be Herrera's replacement but they have a lot in common. Very quick thinking players playing with their head up, first time passes and excellent reading of the game with tireless legs to provide and great United attitude. I will be very curious who wee(Ole) think we could pair him with. Pogba's too slow and lazy there and wasted - should play LAM free role like today, he's excellent there. Perhaps Garner would be a great fit but one season too early for him to feature imo. Ideally someone who can read the game, is dynamic enough and can pick a pass from deep too.. Garner typologically would be great No need for pure DM. Just another CM next to him.
 
I like Fred in that he has great energy and workrate and is a real fighter....but that isnt enough, especially as we have McTominay who is similar and adds more for me. He cost £47 his passing is poor, shootin gis generally poor too and his touch and technique is hardly Brazilian. SAd to see him go in a strange way, but he is a player as others have stated we can certainly upgradein my oinion
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Fred is a good player who, like Fernandinho, impressed with Shakhtar and deserved a move to the PL.

However, unlike Fernandinho, he doesn't really have an out and out major role in CM and needs the right blend around him to look at his best (similar to van de Beek).

He offers good energy and work rate, but isn't a good enough defensive midfielder to play that holding role on his own. And he is OK on the ball and can make some attacking contributions, but doesn't offer much end product in terms of direct goals or assists. He's a very useful #8 if the blend of the other midfielders complement his strengths and weaknesses - again, similar to van de Beek.

He's a player that we can definitely do with in the squad but, ideally, as a regular starter, we'd have a better player that's Man United standard in his own right regardless of others around him and who offers more of a major role in either the defensive or attacking part of the game.

But, again, like someone like Daniel James, a very useful player to have in the squad and to pick for certain types of games.
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Why are people so dumb and think that Fred has to be a DM, why we can't play two players as a CM, Fred is a fantastic b2b CM often provides Kante's numbers in terms of defensive contribution and is way refined footballer too, he's just judged like he was one even though he doesn't play that position. WTF? Football is not played in one way. I bet you're the one who thinks we need Rice who can hold there on his own. In fact noone really can, he's lost without Souček who does a lot defensive work for him and even now he plays in midfield three with Noble.

Who are you thinking we should play there can you name someone? There is very few players who would provideboth athleticism and defensive awareness, with vision and technical ability, in fact I can think of anyone right now who wouldhave it all. If you look at the top teams in Europe they always play with 2 or 3 midfielders and defend as a unit but perhaps people don't understand it's a game of 11 players.

Without Fred whatever position he plays we lose so much, only in midweek we saw how dull the game was without him, no fecking urgency, no defensive awareness from neither of Pogba and McTominay.
 
He improved massively in the second half, after he scored the goal (not before).

I don't really. Still think he's useful to have in the squad. Though I'm not sure he should be a main starter long term.
 
The fact that we have 24 pages debating whether Fred is good enough tells you all you need to know. He’s a good squad player and if paired with a deep lying playmaker would be even more valuable. But he’s nowhere near top 5 in the PL at his position. I firmly believe we need an upgrade if we want to challenge for the title.
 
jesperjaap said:
I like Fred in that he has great energy and workrate and is a real fighter....but that isnt enough, especially as we have McTominay who is similar and adds more for me. He cost £47 his passing is poor, shootin gis generally poor too and his touch and technique is hardly Brazilian. SAd to see him go in a strange way, but he is a player as others have stated we can certainly upgradein my oinion
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Did you see this game? did you see last game, do you watch football or just go to forum claim bullshit because McT is a good lad form Scotland who cost nothing. There is a huge bias and I would even say racial bias towards Fred because he's not from our academy and cost money. But why do I even try, even in today's game it's clear to see McTominay is just a average midfielder who ads nothing, so slow in passing always passing back dwelling on the ball to o much doesnt how for a pass enough because his first few steps are really slow. Again he fecked up some simple passes and let players run behind him because he simply can't really defend other then outmuscle a palyer from time to time. Yet you claim Fred ads nothing and McTominay provides more in a game like this. Ridiculous post.
 
DSG said:
The fact that we have 24 pages debating whether Fred is good enough tells you all you need to know. He’s a good squad player and if paired with a deep lying playmaker would be even more valuable. But he’s nowhere near top 5 in the PL at his position. I firmly believe we need an upgrade if we want to challenge for the title.
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Yeah that's why when he starts we have much better points ratio against the top6 and those better players you claim. Another clueless fan who don't understand there is certain types of midfielders and roles on the pitch. Brainless.
 
Poborsky's hair said:
Why are people so dumb and think that Fred has to be a DM, why we can't play two players as a CM, Fred is a fantastic b2b CM often provides Kante's numbers in terms of defensive contribution and is way refined footballer too, he's just judged like he was one even though he doesn't play that position. WTF? Football is not played in one way. I bet you're the one who thinks we need Rice who can hold there on his own. In fact noone really can, he's lost without Souček who does a lot defensive work for him and even now he plays in midfield three with Noble.

Who are you thinking we should play there can you name someone? There is very few players who would provideboth athleticism and defensive awareness, with vision and technical ability, in fact I can think of anyone right now who wouldhave it all. If you look at the top teams in Europe they always play with 2 or 3 midfielders and defend as a unit but perhaps people don't understand it's a game of 11 players.

Without Fred whatever position he plays we lose so much, only in midweek we saw how dull the game was without him, no fecking urgency, no defensive awareness from neither of Pogba and McTominay.
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Wow. :rolleyes:
Seems a highly aggressive and insulting post, especially as I'm not 'the one who thinks we should sign Rice' - I don't think I've even posted about signing him - and because your rant is all based on one line of my post that you highlighted and have taken out of context.

I wasn't slating Fred for 'not being a DM'. Just pointing out that he can't play that role, or an attacking midfield role, but that he's a good #8 (the same point you made) because of the energy and useful all round game provided we've got other players around who complement his strengths and weakness.

I don't know what's so 'dumb' about that. Or why it suggests I don't know that Football is 'a game of 11 players.'
 
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Today, In the fist half, we were a little bit shocked to see Spurs put in high intensity in mid third. McFred were out numbered. The second half with a little adjustment, we handled it much better by playing from the back more securely. Pogba has a big effect on it by drifting on the left hand side. If anyone criticized Fred lost midfielder in certain period of the game without considering the situation, it’s simply ridiculous.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Wow. :rolleyes:
Seems a highly aggressive and insulting post, especially as I'm not 'the one who thinks we should sign Rice' - I don't think I've even posted about signing him - and because your rant is all based on one line of my post that you highlighted and have taken out of context.

I wasn't slating Fred for 'not being a DM'. Just pointing out that he can't play that role, or an attacking midfield role, but that he's a good #8 (the same point you made) because of the energy and useful all round game provided we've got other players around who complement his strengths and weakness.

I don't know what's so 'dumb' about that. Or why it suggests I don't know that Football is 'a game of 11 players.'
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Poborski is just worn out from defending fred. He’s right too, he’s explained it over and over as have a few of us but it takes too much energy to be going around always debating his pros and cons. People see what they want to see at the end of the day.
 
Poborsky's hair said:
Yeah that's why when he starts we have much better points ratio against the top6 and those better players you claim. Another clueless fan who don't understand there is certain types of midfielders and roles on the pitch. Brainless.
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Sigh.... Where were you @Poborsky's hair when Fred flubbed the back pass to Henderson? Where were you when Fred had dire games recently, essentially passing the ball out of bounds and killing moves? No, you pop up when he makes a nice thru pass or gets his first league goal in 4 years. Were you there in the AC Milan game where Kessie owned us and Fred? Were you there when Tielemans made Fred look foolish in the FA Cup match? How about when he roofed / mishit / mistruck / pulled every shot he took? No, you were hiding, silently biding your time for when he had one excellent sequence of play, still almost did not score, and only then did you come out and proclaim your love of Fred. Why? Because you are a coward.

Just because we have few options at that position and he is legitimately part of our best 11 doesn't mean he's a great player -- it just means we don't have a title winning squad. A great DM does the defensive work AND is additive in dictating forward play, maintaining possession and popping up with the odd goal. Casemiro, Kimmich, Fernandinho, Brozovic, Neves, Fabinho, Kessie, Kante. I can count the number of times Fabinho has made an errant pass on one hand. Fred has three such blunders in a single match. He did today. Fred's work rate is fantastic, but he doesn't read the game particularly well, he's error prone and can't shoot. Call me brainless (oh, wait, you already did...), but I want more from that position because it will make us a better team. End of.
 
I'll just say I will be terribly disappointed if we start next season with Fred and McT as our main DMs. Both are just so labored with the ball. More often than not they both need to take 3 or 4 steps to make a pass when a good first touch would need just one. And then to make things even worse their passes are usually not accurate or with a good weight. Please find a good passing DM for next season, please!
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Wow. :rolleyes:
Seems a highly aggressive and insulting post, especially as I'm not 'the one who thinks we should sign Rice' - I don't think I've even posted about signing him - and because your rant is all based on one line of my post that you highlighted and have taken out of context.

I wasn't slating Fred for 'not being a DM'. Just pointing out that he can't play that role, or an attacking midfield role, but that he's a good #8 (the same point you made) because of the energy and useful all round game provided we've got other players around who complement his strengths and weakness.

I don't know what's so 'dumb' about that. Or why it suggests I don't know that Football is 'a game of 11 players.'
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Don't take it personally. Clearly Poborosky's hair is up his ass, as anyone who has an opinion that is different from his, he has to attack.
 
Poborsky's hair said:
Did you see this game? did you see last game, do you watch football or just go to forum claim bullshit because McT is a good lad form Scotland who cost nothing. There is a huge bias and I would even say racial bias towards Fred because he's not from our academy and cost money. But why do I even try, even in today's game it's clear to see McTominay is just a average midfielder who ads nothing, so slow in passing always passing back dwelling on the ball to o much doesnt how for a pass enough because his first few steps are really slow. Again he fecked up some simple passes and let players run behind him because he simply can't really defend other then outmuscle a palyer from time to time. Yet you claim Fred ads nothing and McTominay provides more in a game like this. Ridiculous post.
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So most of the people who don't rate Fred are racists?
 
Ali Dia said:
Poborski is just worn out from defending fred. He’s right too, he’s explained it over and over as have a few of us but it takes too much energy to be going around always debating his pros and cons. People see what they want to see at the end of the day.
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Yeah almost everyone on here to be fair.
 
Ali Dia said:
He’s been very consistent until about Feb and his form went patchy. Can’t be arsed arguing about it with every fan who is watching the games just waiting for Fred to make a mistake. He’s one of the first names on the team sheet
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Completely agree. He was instrumental in that win today, likewise in the game against City. He absolutely has his foibles but when he's on song he's really good. Think he'd benefit from having a more dominant, defensively minded partner next to/behind him.
 
Ali Dia said:
Keep up the good fight my man! Fred is super super important to us
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Posts like yours give me some power and hope! thanks. Will rather stay away for a while for my own good though , it's hard to argue with people with absolute no knowledge and fair share of bias. That's like in life, you won't explain even basic things to fool if he thinks otherwise.

And credit to all sensible men and women who come here who can elaborate something readable and not just post the same shit again and again no matter what happens on the pitch. cheers
 
Ali Dia said:
Poborski is just worn out from defending fred. He’s right too, he’s explained it over and over as have a few of us but it takes too much energy to be going around always debating his pros and cons. People see what they want to see at the end of the day.
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It is getting ridiculous, that’s for sure. For all the doubts about Ole we’ve got a decent grip on second place and have had some decent results in the last couple of seasons. In every single one of those decent performances Fred has been one of our best performers. Without him we’d be significantly weaker as a team.

What really boils my piss, though, are people who slag him off after good performances. We all have our favourites but at least acknowledge them when they play well. Such a miserable fecking attitude to come on here and have a go at him when he’s played well in a good result.
 
stevoc said:
So most of the people who don't rate Fred are racists?
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Poborsky's hair said:
Posts like yours give me some power and hope! thanks. Will rather stay away for a while for my own good though , it's hard to argue with people with absolute no knowledge and fair share of bias. That's like in life, you won't explain even basic things to fool if he thinks otherwise.

And credit to all sensible men and women who come here who can elaborate something readable and not just post the same shit again and again no matter what happens on the pitch. cheers
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Claiming someone is a racist is a serious charge mate. Glad you are taking a break. Clearly, you are too emotional about Fred -- best to step away.
 
keithsingleton said:
Not at all as you've been right. He had a great 45 mins and deserved praise (( for 45 mins football )) but let's not forget he's had a really poor season overall.
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That's just not true. He has been poor for the last 2 months but very good before that and has been better since int break after a much needed rest.

Poor 2 months doesnt make a poor season.
 
He's like a bargain basement Kante.
 
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