Fred - £47m well spent

[noodlehair]

He did have a ropey start, then I thought he was class in the second half. But there's comments saying he's been shite all season, which is a nonsense.

Yeah. I don't think he's been as good as last season and been in poor(ish) form lately...but not a lot of players have been in good form in the same period so seems weird to specifically target him.

Overall he's been an important and reliable player this season, and last season I thought was one of our better performers.

He does a lot of running and ground covering that goes unnoticed as well. He tracks people well and then gets the ball back out of defence quickly.

Fact is even if we signed a world class midfielder in the summer, Fred/McTominay would still be getting plenty of games, because we're currently having to use Matic in 20-30 games a season just to rest one or both of them.

 

[Mickeza]

I think the reason he gets slated even after good performance is he’ll always have 2/3 passes a game that are pretty shoddy and stand out. This leads to you thinking he’s been shite on the ball but when you look at the stats those 2/3 passes you noticed were actually the only times he gave it away. We need a Matic upgrade to free up Pogba in 80% of the games we play but Fred’s energy against the bigger sides is invaluable and he’s a big part in our defensive solidity.

 

[Andersonson]

He wins alot of balls.

And he loses alot

 

[city-puma]

It was the way he pushed forward today. If I remember correctly Fred was around their box in every goal we scored today. That is not usual for him and for us. yes and Pogba was very good and he kept the ball and that gave Fred the time to move forward. He is an asset to any team.

I think Pogba’s play brought out the best of Cavani today as well. Dier has a dire second half.

 

[Wewinsoon]

I think the reason he gets slated even after good performance is he’ll always have 2/3 passes a game that are pretty shoddy and stand out. This leads to you thinking he’s been shite on the ball but when you look at the stats those 2/3 passes you noticed were actually the only times he gave it away. We need a Matic upgrade to free up Pogba in 80% of the games we play but Fred’s energy against the bigger sides is invaluable and he’s a big part in our defensive solidity.

But he don't warm the ball like other player that we need more of

 

[RooneyLegend]

The man is a warrior but honestly playing a player with a passing range like his in a 2 man midfield is never the way to go. Thankfully Pogba came centrally in the second half. McFred are a sight that causes sore eyes.

 

[Aouer-United]

Absolutely not even close to 47m we paid for players, especially coming from Ukraine league, he's not United first quality starters at all, same as Mctominay. His level is Brighton/Leeds level, he'd be good for them but not enough good for us.


Bin him off please, and Mctominay too.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Absolutely not even close to 47m we paid for players, especially coming from Ukraine league, he's not United first quality starters at all, same as Mctominay. His level is Brighton/Leeds level, he'd be good for them but not enough good for us.


Bin him off please, and Mctominay too.

incredible. We're second in the league.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think the reason he gets slated even after good performance is he’ll always have 2/3 passes a game that are pretty shoddy and stand out. This leads to you thinking he’s been shite on the ball but when you look at the stats those 2/3 passes you noticed were actually the only times he gave it away.

This is spot on. Plus those 2/3 sloppy passes trigger confirmation bias in all those who don’t/won’t rate him and see this as evidence of another poor performance full of wayward passing.

When in reality stats show that each pass he makes is more likely to reach its target than passes from the likes of Partey, Kante or Fernandinho. Every time this is pointed out his critics claim he only passes sideways/backwards. Which is as factually inaccurate as the same claims once made by critics of Michael Carrick.

Rinse and repeat. Every Fred thread on the caf in a nutshell.

 

[Olecurls99]

Let's be real he's quite good on a good day. Deserves to be in our starting 11 over Matic but you'd want to replace him if you were planning to be the best team in the league rather than second best.

Fair point. He's a very useful squad player in a league winning team, possibly a starter, we'll see. The funny thing is you want him in your team in all the big games. It's against the lesser teams where he's less useful.
The nonsense on here about him being terrible is just that though.

 

[Escobar]

He'd be decent as a back up, that's about it. Shows how weak our midfield is with him starting week in week out

 

[G-manc]

He's a good squad player but shouldn't be first choice if we're looking to seriously challenge.

Far too many needless, clumsy fouls given away in dangerous areas and his long passing is atrocious.

 

[MadDogg]

My point was he doesn't create enough, splitting defences with passes, 2 goals against the teams you mentioned, highlights the point I was trying to make,

A couple of months ago I looked at the stats of a bunch of the more notable midfielders in the league, and Fred actually had more key passes, more expected assists and was involved in more shots being taken after his passing than just about any other deeper midfielder in the league. While I do expect he's probably dropped a bit since then as his form hasn't been as good these last couple of months, he does a lot more than some people seem to think. Or perhaps it's that people overestimate how much other midfielders do and so hold Fred to an unrealistic standard.

Don't get me wrong, he's obviously not perfect. But people definitely are overly critical with him.

 

[MadDogg]

He's like a bargain basement Kante.

The issue is that we expect him to do a lot more than what Kante is expected to do for Chelsea. Fred's not just supposed to do the same defensive work as Kante does, he's also expected to be our main ball-player and setting the tempo. Can you imagine if Chelsea did the same with Kante? We'd be laughing at them and saying that they are setting themselves up to fail. Fred actually makes a decent attempt at the role (better than I expect Kante would do) but ultimately he should be the 'less talented' midfielder on the ball like Kante is instead of the main guy.

 

[Lappen]

The issue is that we expect him to do a lot more than what Kante is expected to do for Chelsea. Fred's not just supposed to do the same defensive work as Kante does, he's also expected to be our main ball-player and setting the tempo. Can you imagine if Chelsea did the same with Kante? We'd be laughing at them and saying that they are setting themselves up to fail. Fred actually makes a decent attempt at the role (better than I expect Kante would do) but ultimately he should be the 'less talented' midfielder on the ball like Kante is instead of the main guy.

I dont agree with this if you look at it in a three year period. If you look at in only this year there can be arguments both ways.
Kante does the defensive work a lot better. Kante passing is better, not a lot, but better. Kante scores more, 9 goals in last four years (premier league).

And the part that we expect Fred to be the ball-player setting the tempo, is not what I see Ole or the fans expecting him to do. That is the job we expect Pogba and Bruno to do. And the job we expect a new CDM to do.
Kante is 30 and this is probably his toughest year in Chelsea, and he still have quite similar stats compered to Fred. The problem I believe many have with Fred is his first touch when meeting the CB. Every team waiting for it and then pick up the pressure. And his passing accuracy is not good enough.
I saw stats telling he is only to blame for one goal... that just cant be true... And I am not even going to talk about his shot....

I think Fred is just a level below Kante in every aspect of the game.
I like his passion and work-rate. And even if he was quite bad yesterday, I love that he scored, and it was a beautiful goal with a beautiful pass to Cavani! and a great follow up and tap in...

 

[MadDogg]

I dont agree with this if you look at it in a three year period. If you look at in only this year there can be arguments both ways.
Kante does the defensive work a lot better. Kante passing is better, not a lot, but better. Kante scores more, 9 goals in last four years (premier league).

And the part that we expect Fred to be the ball-player setting the tempo, is not what I see Ole or the fans expecting him to do. That is the job we expect Pogba and Bruno to do. And the job we expect a new CDM to do.
Kante is 30 and this is probably his toughest year in Chelsea, and he still have quite similar stats compered to Fred. The problem I believe many have with Fred is his first touch when meeting the CB. Every team waiting for it and then pick up the pressure. And his passing accuracy is not good enough.
I saw stats telling he is only to blame for one goal... that just cant be true... And I am not even going to talk about his shot....

I think Fred is just a level below Kante in every aspect of the game.
I like his passion and work-rate. And even if he was quite bad yesterday, I love that he scored, and it was a beautiful goal with a beautiful pass to Cavani! and a great follow up and tap in...

Kante is better defensively, no doubt there. Fred is very good but Kante is even better. He does also score a few more goals. Fred's first touch is also sloppy at times.

I disagree with the passing. Fred does tend to make one or two really bad passes a game which people remember, but he generally attempts more with his passing than Kante. Fred makes slightly more passes, has a better pass completion, makes more long passes, passes it further each game, and passes it forward significantly more. Not just this season, but consistently. But this rolls back into the bit about us expecting Fred to do more than Kante is expected to do.

Fred plays as our main ball-player in midfield whenever he plays with McTominay (who is a worse passer and tends to hide from the ball a lot) or Matic (who spends most of his match playing in the defence). He's the one who gets on the ball more in midfield, controls the direction of our play and passes it forward more. In the same way that some expect a new DM to do. Pogba will normally take that role when he plays in midfield of course, but even then sometimes it ends up being Fred while Pogba pushes further forward (such as against Granada). Bruno does drop back to a deeper position at times, but most of the time he'll be in more advanced areas where he'll behave more as a final third creator.

Compare that with Kante, who has played next to the likes of Matic (when he was good), Fabregas, Kovacic and Jorginho. All players who are better on the ball and who are the main one that the defenders will look for when they are building out from the back or that other players will look at to recycle the ball to. Kante then just plays his part in the team, instead of being the main one in those positions as Fred does for us. Can you imagine Kante playing next to McTominay for instance? Fred's not great at that role, but he's good enough that he can just about make it work. Kante and McTominay would be an absolute graveyard of creativity and ball-playing ability.

 

[RedC]

This is spot on. Plus those 2/3 sloppy passes trigger confirmation bias in all those who don’t/won’t rate him and see this as evidence of another poor performance full of wayward passing.

When in reality stats show that each pass he makes is more likely to reach its target than passes from the likes of Partey, Kante or Fernandinho. Every time this is pointed out his critics claim he only passes sideways/backwards. Which is as factually inaccurate as the same claims once made by critics of Michael Carrick.

Rinse and repeat. Every Fred thread on the caf in a nutshell.

The problem with Fred, when compared to players like the ones you've mentioned, is that a lot of his misplaced passes are very dangerous. Nobody cares about a few misplaced passes here and there that lead to nothing, but more often than not, Fred's are proper howlers that lead to counter attacks when our team is pushed forwards to some degree, and even goals.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The problem with Fred, when compared to players like the ones you've mentioned, is that a lot of his misplaced passes are very dangerous. Nobody cares about a few misplaced passes here and there that lead to nothing, but more often than not, Fred's are proper howlers that lead to counter attacks when our team is pushed forwards to some degree, and even goals.

Yes and no. His worst passes are often pinged straight into touch.

 

[Ali Dia]

Kante is better defensively, no doubt there. Fred is very good but Kante is even better. He does also score a few more goals. Fred's first touch is also sloppy at times.

I disagree with the passing. Fred does tend to make one or two really bad passes a game which people remember, but he generally attempts more with his passing than Kante. Fred makes slightly more passes, has a better pass completion, makes more long passes, passes it further each game, and passes it forward significantly more. Not just this season, but consistently. But this rolls back into the bit about us expecting Fred to do more than Kante is expected to do.

Fred plays as our main ball-player in midfield whenever he plays with McTominay (who is a worse passer and tends to hide from the ball a lot) or Matic (who spends most of his match playing in the defence). He's the one who gets on the ball more in midfield, controls the direction of our play and passes it forward more. In the same way that some expect a new DM to do. Pogba will normally take that role when he plays in midfield of course, but even then sometimes it ends up being Fred while Pogba pushes further forward (such as against Granada). Bruno does drop back to a deeper position at times, but most of the time he'll be in more advanced areas where he'll behave more as a final third creator.

Compare that with Kante, who has played next to the likes of Matic (when he was good), Fabregas, Kovacic and Jorginho. All players who are better on the ball and who are the main one that the defenders will look for when they are building out from the back or that other players will look at to recycle the ball to. Kante then just plays his part in the team, instead of being the main one in those positions as Fred does for us. Can you imagine Kante playing next to McTominay for instance? Fred's not great at that role, but he's good enough that he can just about make it work. Kante and McTominay would be an absolute graveyard of creativity and ball-playing ability.

you have the patience of a Saint

 

[Lappen]

Kante is better defensively, no doubt there. Fred is very good but Kante is even better. He does also score a few more goals. Fred's first touch is also sloppy at times.

I disagree with the passing. Fred does tend to make one or two really bad passes a game which people remember, but he generally attempts more with his passing than Kante. Fred makes slightly more passes, has a better pass completion, makes more long passes, passes it further each game, and passes it forward significantly more. Not just this season, but consistently. But this rolls back into the bit about us expecting Fred to do more than Kante is expected to do.

Fred plays as our main ball-player in midfield whenever he plays with McTominay (who is a worse passer and tends to hide from the ball a lot) or Matic (who spends most of his match playing in the defence). He's the one who gets on the ball more in midfield, controls the direction of our play and passes it forward more. In the same way that some expect a new DM to do. Pogba will normally take that role when he plays in midfield of course, but even then sometimes it ends up being Fred while Pogba pushes further forward (such as against Granada). Bruno does drop back to a deeper position at times, but most of the time he'll be in more advanced areas where he'll behave more as a final third creator.

Compare that with Kante, who has played next to the likes of Matic (when he was good), Fabregas, Kovacic and Jorginho. All players who are better on the ball and who are the main one that the defenders will look for when they are building out from the back or that other players will look at to recycle the ball to. Kante then just plays his part in the team, instead of being the main one in those positions as Fred does for us. Can you imagine Kante playing next to McTominay for instance? Fred's not great at that role, but he's good enough that he can just about make it work. Kante and McTominay would be an absolute graveyard of creativity and ball-playing ability.

Haha... last sentence is absolutely spot on.
Have to agree with you on the player next to Fred and Kante... Kante have better player helping out for sure! But I bet they all would prefer to play next to Kante... (The Chelsea midfield is great, probably second best in the league).

I really liked McT before his injury, but it seems to be hard finding the same level again. I do think Fred is better than McT, and Matic because of the way we play today. Not last year, Matic was great a year ago and so was McT.
You are probably right about more long passes, that is the thing you just doesn't see Kante do. But his style is more of short pass and run with the attack to get it back and short pass it again. I think he is the creator of a lot of attacks even if his not the one doing the assist. (Just a feeling)
I still doesn't think Fred is as good or better than Kante. And if we had a good CDM taking the defensive part in a midfield three, I hope we not continues to play with two defensive midfielders or two BTB. A great CDM would make us play Pogba and Bruno higher up together with the new CDM behind. We kind of play with two BoxToBox midfielders and a attacking one in front of them. And no one does the defensive job really good. McT is quite good going forward and do score now and then, so if we had a great CDM I would probably play McT before Fred because he is better attacking. I just wouldn't put Fred in a "offensive" role in a three man midfield. And when playing really good teams, or when we want to close a game, play Fred next to new CDM just because he is more mobile than McT defensive.

Swedish pundits actually think that United should play even more clearly with two DM because of the attackers and offensive we have. I do not agree. :0)

 

[Mark Pawelek]

The problem with Fred is he's not good enough, and never was. It's a scandal United bought him, for that price, in the first place.

 

[MadDogg]

Swedish pundits actually think that United should play even more clearly with two DM because of the attackers and offensive we have. I do not agree. :0)

I was going to touch on that as well. A problem is that none of our front three do much defensively, and neither does Pogba. So we end up with only two players (Bruno and the DM) in the front six who are do a decent defensive job. If we want to do that we probably need to demand our attackers do more defensively, which may then reduce their impact in attack. Playing two defensively solid midfielders is part of what lets us get away with a fair bit of laziness in our front line while also being solid in defence most of the time. Of course, being defensively solid doesn't mean that they can't provide a lot more on the ball than Fred and especially McTominay do.

 

[MikeeMike]

The problem with Fred is he's not good enough, and never was. It's a scandal United bought him, for that price, in the first place.

Totally agree with this. There are polarized views on Fred. Those that see him as a pivotal part of the team post passing stats and comparisons with other players. Those that don’t, like me, just see a player that the opposition don’t rate. They are comfortable for Fred to get the ball from defenders and just spin left or right. While he wasn’t at fault for the Spurs goal, just watch the build up where he starts in wide open space with 3 spurs. He should be near one of them. He closes down and slips. Then as tracking back loses his man and just stops.

Again, not at fault for the goal but and example of his poor awareness as we were 6 against 5 after he slipped.

I actually thought he looked more of a threat vs Spurs when he drifted left for periods in the second half.

 

[matsdf]

For me he has an important role to play in the squad. Should probably not play as much as he does now, but every time we face City he seems to be our most important player. He's very valuable in big games.

 

[Lappen]

I was going to touch on that as well. A problem is that none of our front three do much defensively, and neither does Pogba. So we end up with only two players (Bruno and the DM) in the front six who are do a decent defensive job. If we want to do that we probably need to demand our attackers do more defensively, which may then reduce their impact in attack. Playing two defensively solid midfielders is part of what lets us get away with a fair bit of laziness in our front line while also being solid in defence most of the time. Of course, being defensively solid doesn't mean that they can't provide a lot more on the ball than Fred and especially McTominay do.

Yes, you are probably right for at least the high-profile games. I do no not want a United running forward like headless chickens. And I think if we play with one CDM it could also affect some of our"wingbacks" job. They have to be smarter going forward. Look at Liverpool how much there wingbacks struggle when there center defense (both CB and CM) not doing there job like before. A lot of teams heart them and find good space to attack. And they don't attack as successfully.
But in games were we should dominate and the other team park the buss, this is the way to go I believe.
It is nesseserly to have more ways of playing so one want rule out the other I guess...

And to mention Fred again (it is a thread about him:0) I don't think he suites the way I want us go forward... but I think people saying he is the worst player we have to day, in the way we play today, are wrong. Right now both McT and Matic struggles more. Matic should move on this summer I think, and for me McT suites better in a more attacking CM role then what he play today. If we buy a GOOD cdm I expect Fred to really struggle to get game-time.

 

[Litch]

I think when a footballer polarises opinions, the actual true is somewhere in the middle. It's funny cause that's pretty much where most of the Utd team are, including the manager. Read the other threads about 90% of the Utd team and you'll see the same polarity. Read 'not good enough for Utd team' so where does that leave the manager who consistently plays him? Is his ability to assess of Fred qualities and different than his ability to assess Bruno's? Why would a Utd manager pick a player that cost us games? How can a player who can't pass generally end up with the highest pass amounts and % than any on the pitch?

What I can't work out is for a player that is so limited and just about running around, he's had more MOTM nominations than any other player since his arrival, in big games, in both prem and Europe?

Must just be me and the manager of Man Utd that are calling it wrong......

 

[Litch]

For me he has an important role to play in the squad. Should probably not play as much as he does now, but every time we face City he seems to be our most important player. He's very valuable in big games.

So when he plays against the best team in Europe, he seems to be our most important player but conversely, he should not play as much? His best games are against the best teams in prem and Europe but he's not good enough to be here????? Please someone explain that to me?

 

[MikeeMike]

Yes, you are probably right for at least the high-profile games. I do no not want a United running forward like headless chickens. And I think if we play with one CDM it could also affect some of our"wingbacks" job. They have to be smarter going forward. Look at Liverpool how much there wingbacks struggle when there center defense (both CB and CM) not doing there job like before. A lot of teams heart them and find good space to attack. And they don't attack as successfully.
But in games were we should dominate and the other team park the buss, this is the way to go I believe.
It is nesseserly to have more ways of playing so one want rule out the other I guess...

And to mention Fred again (it is a thread about him:0) I don't think he suites the way I want us go forward... but I think people saying he is the worst player we have to day, in the way we play today, are wrong. Right now both McT and Matic struggles more. Matic should move on this summer I think, and for me McT suites better in a more attacking CM role then what he play today. If we buy a GOOD cdm I expect Fred to really struggle to get game-time.

Good points, and to be direct, I do focus on Fred as a weakness in the team,but, I’m also frustrated that I see a player with fantastic energy and commitment but no awareness. If he could get his head up and anticipate dangerous situations more and stop just ball watching, I think he’d be a great player.

I’m not directly critisizing him alone. Pogba is constantly caught on the ball. McT struggles to command the middle and Matic is getting slower.

I’d like to see him tried on the left side more and not so much covering whole back four. He seems to have good link up play with Shaw and can use his natural left foot to more effect.

 

[Litch]

The problem with Fred is he's not good enough, and never was. It's a scandal United bought him, for that price, in the first place.

Well Ole isn't good enough for picking him, he doesn't pick himself.....

 

[Falcow]

Funny when I was slagging him off everyone else was heaping praise on him. Now I can see a player in there. He's playing now with much more intent and is bringing far more to the table than he was doing before. His overall contribution is far better now and the meaningless side passing he appears to have left behind him.The goal will be paramount for him and I'm hoping he'll kick on, improve more and hopefully be an important player for us in the run in.

He is no better now than 12 or 18 months ago. I'm a fan of Fred but like his detractors on here, you just weren't paying attention.

 

[Litch]

Good points, and to be direct, I do focus on Fred as a weakness in the team,but, I’m also frustrated that I see a player with fantastic energy and commitment but no awareness. If he could get his head up and anticipate dangerous situations more and stop just ball watching, I think he’d be a great player.

I’m not directly critisizing him alone. Pogba is constantly caught on the ball. McT struggles to command the middle and Matic is getting slower.

I’d like to see him tried on the left side more and not so much covering whole back four. He seems to have good link up play with Shaw and can use his natural left foot to more effect.

You saw the build up to the Utd goal against Spurs?

 

[Falcow]

Good points, and to be direct, I do focus on Fred as a weakness in the team,but, I’m also frustrated that I see a player with fantastic energy and commitment but no awareness. If he could get his head up and anticipate dangerous situations more and stop just ball watching, I think he’d be a great player.

I’m not directly critisizing him alone. Pogba is constantly caught on the ball. McT struggles to command the middle and Matic is getting slower.

I’d like to see him tried on the left side more and not so much covering whole back four. He seems to have good link up play with Shaw and can use his natural left foot to more effect.

How in the name of feck do people think Fred ball watches? This is such a bizarre assessment. Take Sunday for instance, Fred had something like 95 touches, the next nearest of the other 21 players on the pitch was miles behind in the low 70's. So how does the most involved player in the game (consistently in every game he plays) ball watch?

Players who ball watch tend not to also be the most involved player in the game (and by some distance).

 

[KW2006]

I like his energy, workrate and defensive skills. He would be a 40m-60m player if he has above average passing ability. Sadly he doesn't.

A prime Darren Fletcher in today's market worth 50m. Fred is a level below.

 

[MikeeMike]

You saw the build up to the Utd goal against Spurs?

I’m talking about Spurs goal. Which, as I said ,was only an example of what I see a flaw.

 

[MikeeMike]

How in the name of feck do people think Fred ball watches? This is such a bizarre assessment. Take Sunday for instance, Fred had something like 95 touches, the next nearest of the other 21 players on the pitch was miles behind in the low 70's. So how does the most involved player in the game (consistently in every game he plays) ball watch?

Players who ball watch tend not to also be the most involved player in the game (and by some distance).

You can say it is a bizarre view and back it up by flawed stats about being most “involved” player.
I just see what I see.
I watched the Spurs game again and it is obvious. He constantly follows the ball.

Happy to give examples , although I can’t post videos.

 

[Litch]

How in the name of feck do people think Fred ball watches? This is such a bizarre assessment. Take Sunday for instance, Fred had something like 95 touches, the next nearest of the other 21 players on the pitch was miles behind in the low 70's. So how does the most involved player in the game (consistently in every game he plays) ball watch?

Players who ball watch tend not to also be the most involved player in the game (and by some distance).

There are some strange opinions of Fred that become truisms. I think many stem from his first season and simply have stuck. I think many focus on his mistakes and ignore his strengths. He's far from perfect, has his moments but I think that's pretty applicable to every player. The 50m price tag didn't help but people forget that was an inflated market with the likes of 70m for Pepe (that some Utd fans thought was a steal) 80m for Harry and Chelsea paid that for a Goalkeeper.
He'll continue to polarise opinions with fans taking a forensic view of every time not only he's on the ball, but equally when he is not.

 

[Litch]

I’m talking about Spurs goal. Which, as I said ,was only an example of what I see a flaw.

You also said 'he has no awareness'.....

 

[kkengvib]

I've said it before. He's the Nicky Butt of the Ferguson era. A good squad player who shouldn't be a nailed-on starter if we have title ambitions.
We certainly overpaid for him but since we can't reverse that decision, we live with it and try to make the best of it.

 

[Litch]

You can say it is a bizarre view and back it up by flawed stats about being most “involved” player.
I just see what I see.
I watched the Spurs game again and it is obvious. He constantly follows the ball.

Happy to give examples , although I can’t post videos.

I guess we all see what we want to see. If you can see such a glaring hole in his game, unless you are currently a professional coach, you are wasted in whatever you do for a living.

 

[Icemav]

This is spot on. Plus those 2/3 sloppy passes trigger confirmation bias in all those who don’t/won’t rate him and see this as evidence of another poor performance full of wayward passing.

When in reality stats show that each pass he makes is more likely to reach its target than passes from the likes of Partey, Kante or Fernandinho. Every time this is pointed out his critics claim he only passes sideways/backwards. Which is as factually inaccurate as the same claims once made by critics of Michael Carrick.

Rinse and repeat. Every Fred thread on the caf in a nutshell.

I think the problem is that he is due some objectively terrible possession play near our goal and in a tight game it can be a killer. Last night though he showed the other side and was a difference maker. First goal from us was absolute class midfield play.