Fred - £47m well spent

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

Fred has his weaknesses but that’s a ridiculous claim given the list you made.

The lower you go down the league the better Fred would look because the team would be more likely to exclusively play in a manner that highlighted his strengths.

Fred’s issues primarily arise from us demanding things from him that he’s not good at. Those demands wouldn’t exist at most of the clubs the players you referenced play for.

Bissouma is the only name I agree with and he would cost closer to what Fred himself cost. Brighton paid £15 million for him themselves and he’s only improved with them.

Honestly don't think they're ridiculous at all. All of his weaknesses I listed are not exaggerated. He is extremely poor with the ball.

"Fred's issues primarily arise from us demanding things from him that he’s not good at". It is unfortunate that the things he is not good at include playing football.

 

[AgentSmith]

Honestly don't think they're ridiculous at all. All of his weaknesses I listed are not exaggerated. He is extremely poor with the ball.

"Fred's issues primarily arise from us demanding things from him that he’s not good at". It is unfortunate that the things he is not good at include playing football.

We’d be vastly improved with Hayden and Newcastle would be worse off with Fred?

We’d be vastly improved with Westwood and Burnley would be worse off with Fred?

Some of the names you mentioned are more sensible but the list as a whole is bizarre given the initial claim you made with it. How could anyone ‘safely say’ Chalobah would vastly improve Manchester United?

 

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

We’d be vastly improved with Hayden and Newcastle would be worse off with Fred?

We’d be vastly improved with Westwood and Burnley would be worse off with Fred?

Some of the names you mentioned are more sensible but the list as a whole is bizarre given the initial claim you made with it. How could anyone ‘safely say’ Chalobah would vastly improve Manchester United?

Yes
Yes
I can say it because Fred is so poor on the ball that all 3 of those mentioned players would make a big difference to us in possession. The specific 3 you mention are equally as good at Fred's "strengths" which is a desire to break up play and win the ball back. They all also provide better passing, ball retention and decision making with the ball.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Fred has his weaknesses but that’s a ridiculous claim given the list you made.

The lower you go down the league the better Fred would look because the team would be more likely to exclusively play in a manner that highlighted his strengths.

Fred’s issues primarily arise from us demanding things from him that he’s not good at. Those demands wouldn’t exist at most of the clubs the players you referenced play for.

Bissouma is the only name I agree with and he would cost closer to what Fred himself cost. Brighton paid £15 million for him themselves and he’s only improved with them.

He would probably look ok ish at Sheff Utd then I jest slightly... but only slightly...

if he played for another team in the PL, there’s nothing to suggest any top club would be interested in buying him.

I remember when Kieran Richardson went to West Brom and helped them avoid relegation - and he looked good for 6 months, is that the sort of level Fred is at?

 

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

He would probably look ok ish at Sheff Utd then I jest slightly... but only slightly...

if he played for another team in the PL, there’s nothing to suggest any top club would be interested in buying him.

I remember when Kieran Richardson went to West Brom and helped them avoid relegation - and he looked good for 6 months, is that the sort of level Fred is at?

Personally I would say Richardson was a better player than Fred is.

 

[lex talionis]

One of the most underrated players we've had here. Had the same energy and tenacity as Fred, but with twice the ability on the ball and he even had some goals in him

Completely agree. It may have been the right decision for us to let him take the contract on offer at PSG, but we really miss Herrera’s ability on the ball and his mental strength. Fred has had a few good games for us but he’s a weak link in the chain and once he’s targeted is easily shattered.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Personally I would say Richardson was a better player than Fred is.

Joely or Natasha?

 

[TheReligion]

Joely or Natasha?

James.

Gazetta for life.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Which top teams does he get into in the PL? For me he is a couple of levels below a top team, one of the main reasons is his inconsistent passing and touch

Fred doesn’t get in any side higher in the table than Southampton (14th). Seriously, anyone can look at the starters for those clubs in any role Fred could ostensibly play, and there’s no chance he’s displacing anyone.

 

[Doracle]

Would he get into Southampton’s team ahead of Romeu? Probably does get in Palace’s team though? Agree all the teams higher probably have better DMs.

 

[Dr Foo]

Can't believe people are actually comparing him to Djemba Djemba. It's like all the good games Fred has played last season (even before Bruno arrived when he was at times our only midfield spark) has vanished with a few poor games. We could do with a modern day Carrick in our 11 but Fred still has value in the squad. We also have other glaring areas to fix first. Hopefully a break (including from social media with so many knee jerk fans) will do Fred some good

 

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

Can't believe people are actually comparing him to Djemba Djemba. It's like all the good games Fred has played last season (even before Bruno arrived when he was at times our only midfield spark) has vanished with a few poor games. We could do with a modern day Carrick in our 11 but Fred still has value in the squad. We also have other glaring areas to fix first. Hopefully a break (including from social media with so many knee jerk fans) will do Fred some good

Fred is just about functional in midfield for us, but it is safe to say that of our first choice 11 he is the weakest link by a long way(even with Greenwood playing out of position on the right and Lindelof making mistakes at CB).

 

[poleglass red]

Can't believe people are actually comparing him to Djemba Djemba. It's like all the good games Fred has played last season (even before Bruno arrived when he was at times our only midfield spark) has vanished with a few poor games. We could do with a modern day Carrick in our 11 but Fred still has value in the squad. We also have other glaring areas to fix first. Hopefully a break (including from social media with so many knee jerk fans) will do Fred some good

at his absolute best he is good, for a club like ours with aspirations of finally being a genuine title contender, that's not good enough. Good should be the minimum standard for a central mid not their maximum return. He's not the only one in that mid, the problem with him and McT is they need each other to offer the defensive cover to our central defenders. You've 2 players taking up what should be 1 position. Their passing is horribly inconsistent, Fred's touch is woeful and by playing those 2 we limit the creativity we can play in mid. Huff and puff, putting in a shift is admirable but at 50 million quid in central mid, we need more that.

 

[Beachryan]

I think in a certain system, Fred could be okay. He is an excellent athlete, has a great mentality and that can get you reasonably far in football.

But you have to get him to stick to what he's good at: disruption. I think Kante's actually a reasonable footballer, so it's a bit unfair to use him, so pick Makele. It was never his job to play passes between the lines, or carry the ball, or do anything particularly nuanced when in possession. He had other players in the system that did that.

That's what we need to do. Fred's inability to take the ball under pressure, or pass without taking a few touches means we just can't be good enough if he's putting together attacks. But if he knows all he is there for is to ensure we're solid, and then give the ball to an actual footballer - that could work.

Or you know, we could try and have a midfielder than can both defend and pass.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

Shit passer, bad first touch, cannot play one touch football, cannot hold the ball under pressure. How people can think he would be brilliant at City is mind-boggling, seriously just take a look at every single DM at Pep's team since he was at Barca, no way Fred is half as good as any of them

He's a solid passer if he doesn't get pressed, which would rarely happen at City. They also have the squad depth to not play him when he's out of form.

He's the best player in the league when it comes to intercepting, which is why they were interested.

His somewhat suspect passing and touch would rarely be a problem at City, with good footballers all around him. We've made it blatantly obvious by only having one midfielder that can pass.

Not saying he'd be a guaranteed succes for City, but he wouldn't be the joke you're making him out to be. Every team needs a watercarrier.

if we sold Fred now to Villa, he would go there and fail.

If Fred were at Villa, the Caf would be looking at him like we are at Ndidi.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I think in a certain system, Fred could be okay. He is an excellent athlete, has a great mentality and that can get you reasonably far in football.

But you have to get him to stick to what he's good at: disruption. I think Kante's actually a reasonable footballer, so it's a bit unfair to use him, so pick Makele. It was never his job to play passes between the lines, or carry the ball, or do anything particularly nuanced when in possession. He had other players in the system that did that.

That's what we need to do. Fred's inability to take the ball under pressure, or pass without taking a few touches means we just can't be good enough if he's putting together attacks. But if he knows all he is there for is to ensure we're solid, and then give the ball to an actual footballer - that could work.

Or you know, we could try and have a midfielder than can both defend and pass.

Bit of a disservice to Makelele - yes he wasn't a maestro on the ball, but he was excellent at receiving and turning, could play one touch, and had a great weight of pass. Famously, Chris Coleman whilst at Fulham managed to shut Chelsea down in one of Mourinho's early years by having Makelele marked out of the game.

Of the two I'd say Makelele was the more technical player than Kante. Kante's ball progression is probably better though as he's a better carrier by quite a bit.

 

[Black Adder]

Fred is a fecking shit name for a Brazilian tbh.

Fredinho

 

[Nou_Camp99]

If you ever wanted to know just how delusional our fanbase can be and how little they actually know about football it's summed up in the support that Fred gets.

Running around like an Energiser bunny doesn't make you a good player. Other than graft he's way off where ne needs to be in nearly every single aspect of his game.

I have similar issues with our fans over AWB. Because he's generally very good in 1 on 1 situations our fans think he's world class. Well he can't even get in the England squad when Trent is not even picked. That's how good he is folks.

Wish people would actually watch the games properly. Fred n AWB aren't good players at all. Both in fact are big big issues for us going forwards into th future. We won't be winning the PL with either of those two are first team regulars no matter who the coach is. Nobody can teach either of them how to pass.

 

[kettledrumhamster]

If you ever wanted to know just how delusional our fanbase can be and how little they actually know about football it's summed up in the support that Fred gets.

Running around like an Energiser bunny doesn't make you a good player. Other than graft he's way off where ne needs to be in nearly every single aspect of his game.

I have similar issues with our fans over AWB. Because he's generally very good in 1 on 1 situations our fans think he's world class. Well he can't even get in the England squad when Trent is not even picked. That's how good he is folks.

Wish people would actually watch the games properly. Fred n AWB aren't good players at all. Both in fact are big big issues for us going forwards into th future. We won't be winning the PL with either of those two are first team regulars no matter who the coach is. Nobody can teach either of them how to pass.

I wish there were more non-delusional top reds like you.

 

[lex talionis]

I’ll never forget the hammering I took here two weeks ago from a poster who was furious that I denied that Fred was “our most important player”. All in good fun I hope, as opposed to a serious post.

Fred has been a disappointment for me, but he is a tireless harasser of in the middle third and that is an important asset to have on any squad. But I don’t trust him in our own third and he’s useless in the final third.

There’s no chance Fred would ever be a regular starter for a top 7 club — we should no longer overlook Leicester City — but he is useful at times. But knowing what we know now, it was 47m plus his wages that were not optimally spent.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I wish there were more non-delusional top reds like you.

Me too.

Top red? Absolutely. I have been to OT over 600 times easily as I was a ST holder for 2 decades and also been all around Europe to watch them play so I'd say I qualify. That doesn't mean fans who never go don't understand the game but many of them clearly don't.

Anyone who genuinely believes Fred is a good player can't have much of an idea about the game. A player who can't be trusted on the ball basically wherever he is on the pitch and he's a midfielder. Ridiculous.

 

[kettledrumhamster]

Me too.

Top red? Absolutely. I have been to OT over 600 times easily as I was a ST holder for 2 decades and also been all around Europe to watch them play so I'd say I qualify. That doesn't mean fans who never go don't understand the game but many of them clearly don't.

Anyone who genuinely believes Fred is a good player can't have much of an idea about the game. A player who can't be trusted on the ball basically wherever he is on the pitch and he's a midfielder. Ridiculous.

We've got 4 central midfielders and he's the best of them at doing what we need him to do. His performances across the last 18 months have helped us improve from a pretty low base. There's no point in comparing him to players we don't have. We have him, and most of the time he helps us win, hence our position of second in the league. Occasionally he makes a mistake that helps us lose, we all know that. We can definitely improve upon him, but if we had a game tomorrow that we absolutely win, you'd be absolutely crazy not to play him.

With your credentials and your superior football intellect, I'd expect at the very least for you to recognise that out-and-out talent isn't the only thing that helps a team perform. You've probably looked down from your seat at Old Trafford across those 600 games at some technically terrible players who nevertheless helped the team achieve its objectives by giving their all and following the manager's instructions, despite their limitations or failure to be Roy Keane and Paul Scholes in one body. Fred is the best we've got at the moment to do a certain task. Even those who appreciate him don't think he's the best midfielder in the world. We just don't think that he's the championship-level player you - with all your esteemed scouting experience - insist he is. And we think he's about as good as we've got, for now.

 

[lex talionis]

I’d like to know who these “technically terrible players” are who were instrumental in us winning trophies.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

We've got 4 central midfielders and he's the best of them at doing what we need him to do. His performances across the last 18 months have helped us improve from a pretty low base. There's no point in comparing him to players we don't have. We have him, and most of the time he helps us win, hence our position of second in the league. Occasionally he makes a mistake that helps us lose, we all know that. We can definitely improve upon him, but if we had a game tomorrow that we absolutely win, you'd be absolutely crazy not to play him.

With your credentials and you're superior football intellect, I'd expect at the very least for you to recognise that out-and-out talent isn't the only thing that helps a team perform. You've probably looked down from your seat at Old Trafford across those 600 games at some technically terrible players who nevertheless helped the team achieve its objectives by giving their all and following the manager's instructions, despite their limitations or failure to be Roy Keane and Paul Scholes in one body. Fred is the best we've got at the moment to do a certain task. Even those who appreciate him don't think he's the best midfielder in the world. We just don't think that he's the championship-level player you - with all your esteemed scouting experience - insist he is. And we think he's about as good as we've got, for now.

His worth ethic and engine are great. Never thought otherwise. However that's not good enough for me. He's really really poor at the basics.

Mctomminay for me has more about his game. He can defend, press and also scores goals. He has 7 this season. Same number as Cavani n Martial and more than Mason.

 

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

We've got 4 central midfielders and he's the best of them at doing what we need him to do. His performances across the last 18 months have helped us improve from a pretty low base. There's no point in comparing him to players we don't have. We have him, and most of the time he helps us win, hence our position of second in the league. Occasionally he makes a mistake that helps us lose, we all know that. We can definitely improve upon him, but if we had a game tomorrow that we absolutely win, you'd be absolutely crazy not to play him.

With your credentials and you're superior football intellect, I'd expect at the very least for you to recognise that out-and-out talent isn't the only thing that helps a team perform. You've probably looked down from your seat at Old Trafford across those 600 games at some technically terrible players who nevertheless helped the team achieve its objectives by giving their all and following the manager's instructions, despite their limitations or failure to be Roy Keane and Paul Scholes in one body. Fred is the best we've got at the moment to do a certain task. Even those who appreciate him don't think he's the best midfielder in the world. We just don't think that he's the championship-level player you - with all your esteemed scouting experience - insist he is. And we think he's about as good as we've got, for now.

I don't disagree with you that he tries hard and has a fantastic engine but that is nowhere near enough. In terms of his footballing ability he is at best a bottom half EPL player.

 

[MadDogg]

His worth ethic and engine are great. Never thought otherwise. However that's not good enough for me. He's really really poor at the basics.

Mctomminay for me has more about his game. He can defend, press and also scores goals. He has 7 this season. Same number as Cavani n Martial and more than Mason.

Fred does far more at both. In fact McTominay is below average in quite a few defensive aspects, particularly pressing where he is in the lowest 20% of central midfielders.

McTominay and Fred defensive stats:

In fact here are their passing and creative stats as well (McTominay on the left):

Fred is better at pretty much all the most important aspects of being a midfielder. The only things McTominay really has going for him is that he's stronger, better in the air and scores a decent amount of goals. All nice things to have of course, but I wouldn't consider any of them amongst the most important things.

Fred is in poor form at the moment and people seem to be making out this is normal. It's not. He was far better last season and in the first few months of this season. It would be like saying that McTominay's terrible January form was his normal.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

His worth ethic and engine are great. Never thought otherwise. However that's not good enough for me. He's really really poor at the basics.

Mctomminay for me has more about his game. He can defend, press and also scores goals. He has 7 this season. Same number as Cavani n Martial and more than Mason.

McTominay only looks like he has more because he score goals, better shooting and more physical. But in reality, you judge midfielder based on passing/playmaking and defensive aspect and Fred is better in those aspect. This is not just based on what I watched but also based on the stats that @MadDogg showed above. This is why in majority our games this season, we suffered more without Fred than when we had Fred, RB Leipzig, West Ham first half, Sheffield United, the first 3 games this season, Istanbul when we lost 2-1 and etc. Not saying Fred is great but he's just better or you could say more effective as a team than the other (VDB, McT, Matic) at the moment.

 

[Martialfc]

Am I the only one that hates this clown? I can’t stand him he’s so bad. The fact that we spent so much on him is unbelievable who ever is in charge of recruitment deserves to be shot. I can’t stand the bloke, he lacks the basics.

 

[arthurka]

Am I the only one that hates this clown? I can’t stand him he’s so bad. The fact that we spent so much on him is unbelievable who ever is in charge of recruitment deserves to be shot. I can’t stand the bloke, he lacks the basics.

Noob you are not alone. He is shockingly bad.

The least Brazilian Brazilian I have ever seen.

 

[Samid]

Sick to death of this bum. Isn't United quality in any way shape or form.

 

[Jezpeza]

Really highlights our need for a passer in that deep midfield role

 

[Adisa]

It's fecking frustrating we are still carrying players like these. We need standards ffs!

 

[kopviolator]

Can not stand him. Useless fuc ker

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Fred is so shit it boggles the mind

 

[TMDaines]

Always a liability when you are behind or otherwise pushing for a goal.

 

[ha_rooney]

He runs around, usually chasing shadows. Sometimes makes a crunching tackle after he’s miscontrolled the ball. Supremely average at the the basics expected of a midfielder. Useless.

edit - never mind

 

[AgentSmith]

Well done guys.

 

[Port Vale Devil]

Fred goal

 

[El Zoido]

He’s unbelievably crap, he’s got almost no utility whatsoever. Can’t shoot, can’t short pass, can’t long pass, can’t cross. All he’s good at is harrying opposition players.

edit: just scored.

 

[kopviolator]

Woops...

Always loved him. Great guy...