Frank Lampard's Sack Watch / Sacked

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SinNombre said:
We are still missing one attacker, CB and a 6 even with those 2 hypothetical signings. Only referring to players Ole trusts here.
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We have loads of depth in CB, whether you like those options or not. Also Fred and McTominay are both perfectly capable of covering as a 6 if needs be, Fred played very well there during the EL run. With those hypothetical signings we'd only really be lacking a back up striker. If you look at it on paper that'd be very solid depth:
De Gea / Henderson
Wan-Bissaka / Williams
Maguire / Bailly
Lindelof / Tuanzebe
Telles / Shaw
Matic / McTominay
Pogba / Fred
Fernandes / VdB
Sancho / Greenwood
Martial / Ighalo
Rashford / James
 
AltiUn said:
We have loads of depth in CB, whether you like those options or not. Also Fred and McTominay are both perfectly capable of covering as a 6 if needs be, Fred played very well there during the EL run. With those hypothetical signings we'd only really be lacking a back up striker. If you look at it on paper that'd be very solid depth:
De Gea / Henderson
Wan-Bissaka / Williams
Maguire / Bailly
Lindelof / Tuanzebe
Telles / Shaw
Matic / McTominay
Pogba / Fred
Fernandes / VdB
Sancho / Greenwood
Martial / Ighalo
Rashford / James
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As I said, it is not about me liking them or not.

It is evident Ole doesn't like some of those options.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
We're starting from 33 points behind! This is lacking any consideration of context for the state of the competition.
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How many point was Liverpool behind the last season before their title challenge?

75 points to 97. thats 22 points gained.
 
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My problem with Chelsea is that last season they felt like this young home made team playing like a family at times. Mount, Abraham, Hudson Odoi, James etc

Lampard looked like he could manage that & manage quite well.

However, This season it seems a bit different & like they have these big named players approach (Werner, Havertz, ziyech etc) - all expensive and playing in positions that they maybe didnt necessarily need improving in the first place especially when comparing to their weaker spots.

It feels like Chelsea has 2 different teams now; the homegrown players & then he has all the superstars playing within similar areas as well like Havertz, Pulisic, Werner, Ziyech, Jorginho, Kante.

I'm not sure Lampard can manage that second team as well as he does the team of Homegrown young players.

Instead of actually sticking to his team of last season again and also trying to improve it by identifying weaknesses - there just seems to be these 2 different teams trying to blend in to one; all at the same time leaving their weaknesses the same.
 
Bebestation said:
My problem with Chelsea is that last season they felt like this young home made team playing like a family at times. Mount, Abraham, Hudson Odoi, James etc

Lampard looked like he could manage that & manage quite well.

However, This season it seems a bit different & like they have these big named players approach (Werner, Havertz, ziyech etc) - all expensive and playing in positions that they maybe didnt necessarily need improving in the first place especially when comparing to their weaker spots.

It feels like Chelsea has 2 different teams now; the homegrown players & then he has all the superstars playing within similar areas as well like Havertz, Pulisic, Werner, Ziyech, Jorginho, Kante.

I'm not sure Lampard can manage that second team as well as he does the team of Homegrown young players.

Instead of actually sticking to his team of last season again and also trying to improve it by identifying weaknesses - there just seems to be these 2 different teams trying to blend in to one; all at the same time leaving their weaknesses the same.
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Should have left it at that
 
duffer said:
I do get the impression that a lot of Man United fans on here are annoyed that Chelsea fans are not giving Frank the same shit they are giving Ole.
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The lot go by what they read by the few Chelsea fans here. I'm certainly not going to shit on a legend and current manager on a rival forum, I've got 3 different Chelsea forums for that.
 
Bebestation said:
My problem with Chelsea is that last season they felt like this young home made team playing like a family at times. Mount, Abraham, Hudson Odoi, James etc

Lampard looked like he could manage that & manage quite well.

However, This season it seems a bit different & like they have these big named players approach (Werner, Havertz, ziyech etc) - all expensive and playing in positions that they maybe didnt necessarily need improving in the first place especially when comparing to their weaker spots.

It feels like Chelsea has 2 different teams now; the homegrown players & then he has all the superstars playing within similar areas as well like Havertz, Pulisic, Werner, Ziyech, Jorginho, Kante.

I'm not sure Lampard can manage that second team as well as he does the team of Homegrown young players.

Instead of actually sticking to his team of last season again and also trying to improve it by identifying weaknesses - there just seems to be these 2 different teams trying to blend in to one; all at the same time leaving their weaknesses the same.
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Very good post. Last season I thought Lampard was looking like a good appointment by the club. They were playing good football but were let down by their forwards which is why I understand them signing predominantly forward players in the transfer windows. I don't know what happened with Rudiger but on paper their defence looked like it was being strengthened by signing Chilwell, maybe not so much with Silva but it still should of been enough to cope but at least from the outside its looking like a disaster. Whether it's a bedding in process or Lampard is out of his depth I just don't know but at the minute the job looks too much for him.

Obviously we can't write him off after so few games but if I was a Chelsea supporter I'd be slightly worried.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
The issue was the CL performances, in particular against a very average Juve side. I enjoyed some of the football we played but it was naive even at the best of times.

I do think it was harsh to sack him so abruptly and bizarre to choose Benitez to replace him (probably Roman clinging against all odds that he could get a tune out of Torres), so we're in agreement there. I'd have been perfectly happy to give him more time to see if he could have turned things around, but personally I never thought he was the right choice to take us forward.
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Yeah that's fair I suppose. I just didn't notice any dissenting opinions about RDM's abilities as a manager at the time. We all knew he was no Mourinho, of course but I think most people felt he was a manager on the rise. The decade since that year has proven most people wrong though.
 
Dancfc said:
Can never prove it but i think Roman wanted to make the switch in the summer of 2012 but luckily had the awareness not to ruin a feel good close season that the CL brought.

I love Robbie and him being the manager to win our first CL was perfect karma after his career was so cruelly cut short but it was fate as opposed to him being a genius and in my opinion he is a poor manager, the 3-4 points off the top thing was mainly due to our good start (where we seemed to be playing with an extended buzz from Munich plus the novelty of Hazard's arrival) but when it went south post United i've never seen us look so clueless, if he remained i honestly couldn't see anything but a spectacular collapse down the table.

My heart hated the fact he was being replaced by Rafa but my head knew it was the right thing (especially as Jose was coming back and a similar type of manager laying the groundwork for him could have made his initial task easier).
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I had warmed to Rafa as time went on, and by the end I was actively arguing with other fans who wanted to keep abusing him until he walked out of the door. He was clearly, and has always been, several notches above the manager RDM was, but I just think, just like AVB, he was viewed by the fans as a potentially very good manager on the rise. I certainly didn't forecast a completely collapse if we stuck with him.

Sacking him in the manner we did, 6 months after winning the CL, also had the unintended effect of, if some stories are to be believed, turning Pep off the idea of becoming Chelsea manager. He was apparently in regular contact with Abramovich and the plan was to get him to join us following his sabbatical and we were supposedly building a team in the image we knew he preferred..
 
Bebestation said:
My problem with Chelsea is that last season they felt like this young home made team playing like a family at times. Mount, Abraham, Hudson Odoi, James etc

Lampard looked like he could manage that & manage quite well.

However, This season it seems a bit different & like they have these big named players approach (Werner, Havertz, ziyech etc) - all expensive and playing in positions that they maybe didnt necessarily need improving in the first place especially when comparing to their weaker spots.

It feels like Chelsea has 2 different teams now; the homegrown players & then he has all the superstars playing within similar areas as well like Havertz, Pulisic, Werner, Ziyech, Jorginho, Kante.

I'm not sure Lampard can manage that second team as well as he does the team of Homegrown young players.

Instead of actually sticking to his team of last season again and also trying to improve it by identifying weaknesses - there just seems to be these 2 different teams trying to blend in to one; all at the same time leaving their weaknesses the same.
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Agree mainly with this, doesn't seem to be any set system we're playing. Tactically a bit of a mess.

This was inevitable with all the new signings and no preseason.

I think we need to see solid improvement by game 10, with Ziyech and Pulisic back and if not performing by about league game 20 there will be trouble.

Pressure is most definitely on.
 
Bebestation said:
My problem with Chelsea is that last season they felt like this young home made team playing like a family at times. Mount, Abraham, Hudson Odoi, James etc

Lampard looked like he could manage that & manage quite well.

However, This season it seems a bit different & like they have these big named players approach (Werner, Havertz, ziyech etc) - all expensive and playing in positions that they maybe didnt necessarily need improving in the first place especially when comparing to their weaker spots.

It feels like Chelsea has 2 different teams now; the homegrown players & then he has all the superstars playing within similar areas as well like Havertz, Pulisic, Werner, Ziyech, Jorginho, Kante.

I'm not sure Lampard can manage that second team as well as he does the team of Homegrown young players.

Instead of actually sticking to his team of last season again and also trying to improve it by identifying weaknesses - there just seems to be these 2 different teams trying to blend in to one; all at the same time leaving their weaknesses the same.
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I have no problems with this. A lot of agreeable points.

The hope is clearly, Lampard being the rookie manager that he is, that he will learn and improve as the team learns and improves. If we spend quarter of a billion on improving the team personnel but we're still seeing the same flaws defensively and offensively, then that's a problem but he'll be given the chance to work on and fix those flaws throughout the season, unless disaster strikes and we look like we genuinely might miss out on top 4.

I don't think I agree that Lampard can't manage these new big names well. There's certainly nothing to suggest that that's true. Half of them have barely featured, if at all. Werner and Havertz are the only ones who have featured regularly so far. The rest have either featured just once or not at all.
 
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WeePat said:
I had warmed to Rafa as time went on, and by the end I was actively arguing with other fans who wanted to keep abusing him until he walked out of the door. He was clearly, and has always been, several notches above the manager RDM was, but I just think, just like AVB, he was viewed by the fans as a potentially very good manager on the rise. I certainly didn't forecast a completely collapse if we stuck with him.

Sacking him in the manner we did, 6 months after winning the CL, also had the unintended effect of, if some stories are to be believed, turning Pep off the idea of becoming Chelsea manager. He was apparently in regular contact with Abramovich and the plan was to get him to join us following his sabbatical and we were supposedly building a team in the image we knew he preferred..
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Wierdly so did I (warm to Rafa), sort of semi rooted for him at Newcastle :wenger: :lol:

I never heard that story about Pep (I knew we wanted him but I never realised we may have been relatively close to tempting him) but if that's true I find it a little bit hypocritical of Pep if Robbie's sacking turned him off the idea of him coming to us. Not only with the fact if he was in contact with Roman then he was discussing taking the job while Robbie was still in the hotseat he then went to Bayern when if rumours are to be believed Heynckes didn't want to leave.
 
He's had a shaky start.

He's amassed a huge squad and seems to be struggling to find the right balance.

Similar to when Spurs signed a ton of players with the Bale money a few years back, it was too much player integration too quickly.

I dont think Chelsea have left enough time to sort the outgoings to balance the squad.

They will inevitably get better once Pulisic and Ziyech start playing and Lampard starts to play a similar team week in week out - they need consistency.

Defense seems to be an issue: They are trying to flog Rudiger, who for my money is better than Zouma, Tomori and Christiansen. Silva's made a shaky start and would never be a long term options anyway. Alonso is struggling as well.

Midfield - Simply too many bodies. Who does he favour? You cant keep Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Loftus-Cheek, Barkley, Mount all happy.

The GK area is also farcical. Have to take a huge hit on Kepa.

Currently - they either look threatening and play good stuff but it's only in spurts. Needs to add consistency and quickly.
 
Bebestation said:
My problem with Chelsea is that last season they felt like this young home made team playing like a family at times. Mount, Abraham, Hudson Odoi, James etc

Lampard looked like he could manage that & manage quite well.

However, This season it seems a bit different & like they have these big named players approach (Werner, Havertz, ziyech etc) - all expensive and playing in positions that they maybe didnt necessarily need improving in the first place especially when comparing to their weaker spots.

It feels like Chelsea has 2 different teams now; the homegrown players & then he has all the superstars playing within similar areas as well like Havertz, Pulisic, Werner, Ziyech, Jorginho, Kante.

I'm not sure Lampard can manage that second team as well as he does the team of Homegrown young players.

Instead of actually sticking to his team of last season again and also trying to improve it by identifying weaknesses - there just seems to be these 2 different teams trying to blend in to one; all at the same time leaving their weaknesses the same.
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Well, to act as devil's advocate a bit, All of Mount, Abraham, Hudson Odoi and James have played a lot of minutes since the season started.

Isn't every team like that (the second bolded part)? Are we not combining our academy products (Henderson, Williams, McTominay, Rashford, Greenwood) with our expensive buys (De Gea, Lindelof, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, Shaw, Pogba, Matic, Fred, Fernandes, Martial)?
 
Abramovich will expect big results this season with the money they've spent. I don't think Lampard will match his expectations and they will go after somebody like Allegri in the summer.
 
Dancfc said:
Wierdly so did I (warm to Rafa), sort of semi rooted for him at Newcastle :wenger: :lol:

I never heard that story about Pep (I knew we wanted him but I never realised we may have been relatively close to tempting him) but if that's true I find it a little bit hypocritical of Pep if Robbie's sacking turned him off the idea of him coming to us. Not only with the fact if he was in contact with Roman then he was discussing taking the job while Robbie was still in the hotseat he then went to Bayern when if rumours are to be believed Heynckes didn't want to leave.
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Yeah I mean by time he ended up at Newcastle, he was a full decade removed from his Liverpool time. Any ill feeling had faded years before that.

I think it was Guillem Balague who said it, I can't remember if it was from the Pep book he wrote or somewhere else, but supposedly Pep was really keen on the idea of Chelsea until he saw how the CL winning manager was treated 6 months after winning it.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Abramovich will expect big results this season with the money they've spent. I don't think Lampard will match his expectations and they will go after somebody like Allegri in the summer.
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Allegri is the opposite of the type of manager this squad needs.

Nagelsman and Tuchel, yes. Poch, and even Pep, if he's available next summer. would fit the make up of the current squad well. But I think going back to the old school coaches in the Capello/Mourinho mold isn't really in line with the direction the club has chosen to go since Conte was booted out.
 
No idea why, btut his stint reminds me of that of Roberto Martinez at Everton.

Started wonderfully and was praised by everyone for good play style and team always looking to score goals. Whereas deep down, everyone could see that he has no idea how to set a defence up, and those weaknesses were put under more focus in the second season, once results stopped going his way.
 
duffer said:
I do get the impression that a lot of Man United fans on here are annoyed that Chelsea fans are not giving Frank the same shit they are giving Ole.
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I think the only frustration is some of our fans praise Lampard for finishing 4th, but abuse Ole because we finished last season at 66 points, which wouldn't have been enough to get top 4 in most other seasons.
 
crossy1686 said:
Our fans are muppets for the majority. Spoiled glory supporters who don't understand process.
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That's probably fair for most fans.

I genuinely enjoyed most of last season as a Chelsea fan. I was at Jody Morris' debut for Chelsea 20-something years ago (I clearly remember a conversation I had with my dad about how.small he was!) and to see him and Frank in charge is pretty special.

The do get a lot of leeway but so what, that's what football is all about for me.
 
If Frank had a long losing run like Ole since March the season before then had like one win in five for half of the next season while spending a lot of that in the bottom half, I'm sure there'd be Chelsea fans giving him grief and lets be honest, Chelsea would've sacked him before half of that run transpired anyway. There's also Ole's Cardiff run.
 
Not that I have seen anything to think Frank is a good manager, or deserves the job, but you can't just buy 5-6 first team players and expect to perform in one window.

A couple of first team players and a couple of young backup options each year and take your time to build a team seems the most effective way. This is the blue print for most successful teams, you can't get instant success any more.
 
africanspur said:
Isn't it a bit early to be talking about stuff 'going wrong'?
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Of course but anything for clicks!

This bit in particular was cringey:
...and in an embarrassing passage of play Chelsea's players were left holding their arms in the air, begging for the offside flag to be raised against the goalscorer. In reality, he was a good few yards onside...
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No one was questioning whether Lamela was onside from the cross, Chelsea's players were asking whether Kane had gotten a touch (in which case Lamela would have been off).
 
Frank is obviously a mediocre manager at best. The man doesn't have a clear plan and is throwing you know what at the ceiling and hoping something sticks. That's usually a sign that someone doesn't really know what they are doing. Very difficult for a club to recruit well of they don't know what the coach will need.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Frank is obviously a mediocre manager at best. The man doesn't have a clear plan and is throwing you know what at the ceiling and hoping something sticks. That's usually a sign that someone doesn't really know what they are doing. Very difficult for a club to recruit well of they don't know what the coach will need.
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Its not obvious. Your having a laugh. He worked wonders under very difficult circumstances last season. He's had a couple of dodgy results at the beginning of this season and you think that makes it obvious.

You are shooting off prematurely.
 
blue blue said:
Its not obvious. Your having a laugh. He worked wonders under very difficult circumstances last season. He's had a couple of dodgy results at the beginning of this season and you think that makes it obvious.

You are shooting off prematurely.
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What wonders? He squeaked past Leicester for 4th place, a country mile behind the league leaders and behind a team that was largely garbage for half the season. Lost in the fa cup final to a rookie manager who took over a disaster site. Got embarrassed in the CL. His team conceded an embarrassing 54 goals in the season, by far the most in the top half of the table. Been saying this before the season had started, I'm not surprised his project is about to fall apart.

Now Chelsea look devoid of ideas, structure and intensity. There really aren't any positives. You can choose to belive otherwise but you'll learn the hard way.

The only positive for Chelsea is Abromovic won't let this continue for much longer. Soon mega coach like Allegri will come strolling in and build something serious. Frank isn't the answer.
 
RooneyLegend said:
What wonders? He squeaked past Leicester for 4th place, a country mile behind the league leaders and behind a team that was largely garbage for half the season. Lost in the fa cup final to a rookie manager who took over a disaster site. Got embarrassed in the CL. His team conceded an embarrassing 54 goals in the season, by far the most in the top half of the table. Been saying this before the season had started, I'm not surprised his project is about to fall apart.

Now Chelsea look devoid of ideas, structure and intensity. There really aren't any positives. You can choose to belive otherwise but you'll learn the hard way.

The only positive for Chelsea is Abromovic won't let this continue for much longer. Soon mega coach like Allegri will come strolling in and build something serious. Frank isn't the answer.
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Lampard took over a side that was transfer banned and had lost the player single-handedly responsible for more than half the team's goals the previous year. Getting us to 4th was not an insignificant achievement. Go back and look at the preseason predictions from a year ago.

Embarrassed in the CL? We drew literally the best side in Europe and it's not like we rolled over and conceded 8 in a single match or anything. Literally no one expected us to compete with Bayern. You're reaching here.

Lost the FA cup final 2-1 having had two injuries, including to our best player (who's yet to feature this season). Hardly a shocking result?

It's amazing that you are so prescient that you can see the project is falling apart after *checks notes* 4 whole matches this year. Take a chill pill, mate.
 
Opposition fans at the start of the season "Chelsea are crap Hazard was carrying them and they will be lucky to make Europa".

Opposition fans at the end "he only squeezed into 4th massive underachievement with that squad".
 
I still remember the papers going for Contes throat in his first season after a poor start. It sells papers. Lets get to Christmas at least.
 
3 games in the PL. 1 expected win against Brighton, 1 expected lose against Liverpool and 1 unexpected draw against Westbrom. Go out of the Carabao cup to Spurs on penalty shootouts. Yep the roof is definitely on fire.
The only gripe I have with Lamps is his inability to nail down a preferred starting XI. He's overplaying the whole meritocracy card a bit. Knockle down on a constant XI and only change personnel when there is an injury or a player has show a consistent drop of form. The whole spine of the team is in flux at the moment and it'll hold back on-pitch chemistry.
Now that we are out of the Carabao think it'll be best to stick and stay with this (bar injuries reoccurring of course)

Mendy
Azpi - Zouma - Tiago - Chillwell
Kante - Jorginho
Ziyech - Havertz - Pulisic
Werner
Sub: Kepa, Christensen, James, Kovacic, Emerson, Tomori, Mount, CHO, Tammy, Giroud.

Stick with this, give them a constant run of 7-10 games regardless of results or what someone comes off the bench to do, let them build chemistry and defined roles, style of a play, defensive cohesion etc. Let the squad players learn and adapt to what the first XI develop or leave. That's how it is at top level football, you're never keeping everybody happy and Lampard just has to accept this instead of chopping and changing every second match which only disrupts the only thing that matters, on -pitch team chemistry.
 
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