Was it? I sure as hell would take a 15 point improvement! Not sure I fancy our chances, nor yours to be honest.
Frank Lampard's Sack Watch / Sacked
- Thread starter SirAnderson
- Start date
- Status
Absolutely normal to do every now and then, especially in mickey mouse cup. But I saw some shocking statistics someone posted here before from last season regarding the rotation in PL last season. I recommend you to Google to understand what I mean.
The rotation was insane. He nearly had a changed back 4 every game
I think it was same back 4 ten Times in 38 games or something. Maybe @duffer knows better.So you, as a Chelsea fan don’t have any problem with that? Rotation can be good but it can also be really bad. Lamps seems to go the same way this season. The sacking way that is.
With that defence?
Well, if City play to their standard and finish with 95+ then that's not really feasible. Obviously they have question marks as well but yes, if they play like they did last year I'd hope to be in with a shout for 2nd place.
Youre very top heavy but being top heavy is all you need to beat most sides outside of the top 8. We were outplayed by Brighton yet scored 3 and had 2 closely disallowed. Its how we got 3rd off you after the break.
Add in the schdule where you can draft in Pulisic and CHO for your 3rd game in 6 days and its an incredible advantage to have.
Really, really doubt City will get past 85 points this season.
Who expects chelsea to mount a title challenge? Only the most optimistic Chelsea supporters.
They do have very little patience, that’s for sure, certainly if we look at the last 15 years, and interesting that they have chosen a manager that would grow with the team rather than provide an instant impact.
I believe he’s good enough, but whether he is given the time, that’s a different question.
81 points, not a crazy number.
If you end up spending 150 million this window (VDB and Sancho), surely there will be expectations on Ole as well to have a significant improvement?
They cant chuck it in their own net every game.
Its very managable but its up to Frank to sort it. If he doesnt then he'll have failed.
He's shown no signs of being about to organise an defence so far. I wouldn't be too hopeful.
Absolutely normal to do every now and then, especially in mickey mouse cup. But I saw some shocking statistics someone posted here before from last season regarding the rotation in PL last season. I recommend you to Google to understand what I mean.
The rotation was insane. He nearly had a changed back 4 every game
So you, as a Chelsea fan don’t have any problem with that? Rotation can be good but it can also be really bad. Lamps seems to go the same way this season. The sacking way that is.
Yes, I think we did over-rotate at times. I just think it's odd to point to that after a game in the league cup! It's too early to say if that'll be the trend for this year as well if you ask me.
I had no problem with the team selection; I didn't like that Lampard failed to make adjustments during the game. Giroud should have come off far sooner and we should have gone 4-3-3.
And if they don't then yes I'd hope to push them close for that 2nd spot.
Neither am I but thats the expectations he should have. I dont think he will last myself to be fair
If we do, then yeah, there'll be more focus on Ole and less on Woodward.
I'd take either top four and either winning one of the unimportant things or a convincing points total.
If we don't spend much more then we're just playing with the kids, like you were last season, and the manager deserves some leeway.
The worst case scenario here, and sadly it is probably the most likely, is another meek just inside the top four finish.
In order of preference it is
1. Frank to prove me wrong and end up doing a great job and we improve a lot
(insert gigantic gap here)
2. It to become very clear very early that he isn't up to the job so he can be replaced by a manger of a more befitting standard relative to the squad (looking at you Naglesmann)
(another gigantic gap)
3. A repeat of last season, a close top four finish, decent CL run before getting outclassed by an elite side, decent cup run.
In order of preference it is
1. Frank to prove me wrong and end up doing a great job and we improve a lot
(insert gigantic gap here)
2. It to become very clear very early that he isn't up to the job so he can be replaced by a manger of a more befitting standard relative to the squad (looking at you Naglesmann)
(another gigantic gap)
3. A repeat of last season, a close top four finish, decent CL run before getting outclassed by an elite side, decent cup run.
That's reasonable but looking for that type of reason amongst rivals is rare. If we had spent the same as you and brought in that amount of quality you guys would be saying the same about Ole being a failure for 'underachieving'. For what it's worth I like Lampard and think he is a good manager but he is a good few years away from being ready for the Chelsea job (assuming that Chelsea are still a club who want to win the big trophies). The most baffled I've been so far this season is watching his tactics against Liverpool a few games ago considering you guys had given them real problems in the games last season by attacking them and that was before the new signings. I couldn't believe he had decided to try a more defensive approach and hadn't picked up on how unlucky you were against them last year with a more attacking approach.
Anyway I think when we hopefully get ourselves together after no preseason that we will likely battle for 3rd and 4th again although we'll both be hoping for much improved point totals than last year.
The real issue I think United fans have is not with Lampard but with the fact that it has felt like everything Ole has done has been analyzed to hell but Lampard got a bit of a 'pass' overall last year. This despite the fact that United and Chelsea are meant to have the same ambitions as clubs. So we'll be more likely to be hard on Frank as a result.
Sure but my point has been longstanding that “winning the transfer market” means little in the short term for this season. You’ve no doubt signed some good, exciting players but it’s near impossible to get a whole new team to gel. I don’t think Utd will win it either but I do think we will finish above you guys again.
Some will have to leave this window
Yes and I should also say that I think Lamps (and Ole) overachived (with the squad and the circumstances) - last season. Both were seen as transition managers and did very well. Lamps 4th with a transfer ban plus bad defence and Ole 3rd with a paperthin squad plus without Pogba and Rashy for half of the season.
So i really hope both gets more time to build on their projects. I see Ole and Lamps as the underdogs who wants to take the next step and challenge Klopp & Pep. We’ll see about that.
Didn't Ole get a similar pass before he got a transfer window? Their was massive fanfare of him at the start so much so a pundit tried to pressure your board on live TV to give him a full time deal.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying in other paragraph's, I actually think he's overcomplicated things since lockdown, it's quite depressing thinking of those Billy Gilmour inspired performances against the Scouse duo, really thought we were starting to see us break through to a new level (it's what kept me sane with no football indefinitely thinking I had something really good to look forward too).
To be honest I expect us to improve on that regardless of signings. Last year we went without Pogba for almost the whole season (been inconsistent but still one of our best players regardless), Rashford for a while, Martial the same and Shaw the same. Greenwood is now another year more experienced along with Williams and hopefully De Gea will be back to somewhat his better performances (but now we have a proper replacement if needed).
If we avoid those key injuries this year then I would expect 15-20 more points regardless of any signings including VDB. Anything else will be a failure from Ole and the players and that's with us clearly being in preseason mode along with most of the other sides that went deeper in Europe.
I think you're right to flag it up as a trend to keep an eye on - hopefully we have a clearly-defined CB hierarchy. For me the partnership should be Silva / Zouma - no language issues between them and Mendy (plus Azpi and Kante as well).
I think a 3rd placed finish would be quite acceptable, they bought half a team of mostly youngsters that'll need time to gel. Next season I'd expect them to challenge with 1-2 big defensive signings though. Their problem will be mainly at the back this season. I honestly think all of Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester and also United have promising progressive managers. Not on the same level as Pool and City, but better than some give them credit for.
How much 'goodwill' is there around Lampard? Is there a real desire amongst the Chelsea fans to support him even in hard times? Or do you guys just kind of accept that the owner decides these things and you can't influence them?
You can never tell with some of our fanbase, a high number gave up on Drogba within a season but on the flip side chanted Torres' name after he tripped over the ball.
There's a hell of a lot given his status as a player, and the stories that have come out regarding his ability to convince young players to join his project (Ziyech, Werner, and Havertz all said Lampard's influence was key to them joining). In addition, the work done to include him in the club's hierarchy goes under the radar but is vital - too often in the past at Chelsea relations between the board and manager have become antagonistic, and the open lines of communication he has with Cech and Marina are important.
I think generally there's an understanding that he's new to this and that he has to improve, but there's no questioning his work ethic, passion, or connection to the club. I'd be shocked if he's sacked this year barring some sort of catastrophe.
Spurs will finish above Chelsea. You heard it here first folks. Chelsea 5th or 6th.
Yeah he did to an extent but the problem is that you guys have won the League more recently and even though you lost your best player you have now brought in 6-7 reputable players. Moyes was expected to win the League with us whereas Ole has taken over what has become an absolute joke of a club, Chelsea aren't considered a joke the way we are currently. I think any team that has done the business you have this window will be expected to be much improved. Hell I expect us to be much improved if we can avoid the injuries to Pogba, Martial and Rashford this year and with having Bruno from the start of the year.
I do think you will improve on your points total (as I think we will, but I'm less sure) but you guys are going to have to accept that Lampard is going to be judged on a much higher expectation this season because of all the 'shiny new toys'. Football fans are pretty fickle like that and don't allow for gelling of the squad and things like that. You'll be fine though, I'm expected the reverse of last year with you guys 3rd and us 4th unless we get in some top players and pull ourselves out of this rut quickly.
Yeah I agree on the overcomplicated thing. You played good football for the most part last season and looked a very good time at times. I think patience was just needed whereas I feel like he tore up the script at times since (especially against Liverpool recently). I'd put you similar to us (we finished on the same points after all) in that the positives are clear to see but the performances can vary greatly from match to match. I hope to god we stick with what we are doing as there are times when we finally look a very good side after all these years.
Yeah we shall see this season. As you said - it’s too early to make any conclusions right now. Now you also got some proper defenders in Silva and Chillwell - Will definately improve things. I would go for Chillwell Silva Zouma Azpi/James. Haven’t seen enough Chelsea games but I think that Will be enough for 3rd atleast.
Lamps and Ole are great managers for Young players and that is what we see now in the transfer market which I like. Focusing on buying Young players that can become WC players with the right focus and managing. It’s so much more exciting to see.
We’ve had the same rotation problem with several managers before. Mourinho did it very often which was frustating but he was a good defensive manager atleast. I think a cemented CB pairing gives the squad a great stability. Back 4 even better. And professional CB’s should be capable to play 40-50 games/year like Van dijk and Maguire.
Last edited:
This answers a lot of the questions I would've had about why there seemed to be little support for Di Matteo.
I'd be happy if we get knocked out of the League Cup in the next round. It's a pointless cup even more so with the fixture congestion this season.
Sancho, VDB and Telles and 76 points should be the minimum expectation from Ole. Our squad depth issues still won't have been fixed.
There was a considerable amount of angst that we'd replaced him with Benitez specifically, but at the same time I think there was a tacit understanding that he wasn't up for the job and that the team had more or less managed themselves to the CL in 11/12. Once we became the first CL holder to exit in the group stage (in a month where we managed zero wins from 5 matches, scoring a total of 3 goals), the writing was on the wall.
He has proven to be not a very good manager in the years after the fact but I don't think there was any such understanding that he wasn't up to the job, certainly not amongst Chelsea fans and certainly not at the time. We weren't that far off the league leaders at the time, 4-5 points, and we were playing incredible football with Hazard, Mata and Oscar.
The angst did have a lot to do with Rafa being the replacement, but to this day, knowing what became of RDM's managerial career, many fans will insist he was treated badly and it was wrong to sack him.
Lampard success or failure will mostly depend on his ability to figure out his core and allow them to grow as a team.
The chopping and changing he did with the backline last season can't happen again this season. If Christensen and Silva are his preferred pairing, then let them get to work.
The chopping and changing he did with the backline last season can't happen again this season. If Christensen and Silva are his preferred pairing, then let them get to work.
Er, what? The squad depth issue improves enormously with those hypothetical signings.
The issue was the CL performances, in particular against a very average Juve side. I enjoyed some of the football we played but it was naive even at the best of times.
I do think it was harsh to sack him so abruptly and bizarre to choose Benitez to replace him (probably Roman clinging against all odds that he could get a tune out of Torres), so we're in agreement there. I'd have been perfectly happy to give him more time to see if he could have turned things around, but personally I never thought he was the right choice to take us forward.
Can never prove it but i think Roman wanted to make the switch in the summer of 2012 but luckily had the awareness not to ruin a feel good close season that the CL brought.
I love Robbie and him being the manager to win our first CL was perfect karma after his career was so cruelly cut short but it was fate as opposed to him being a genius and in my opinion he is a poor manager, the 3-4 points off the top thing was mainly due to our good start (where we seemed to be playing with an extended buzz from Munich plus the novelty of Hazard's arrival) but when it went south post United i've never seen us look so clueless, if he remained i honestly couldn't see anything but a spectacular collapse down the table.
My heart hated the fact he was being replaced by Rafa but my head knew it was the right thing (especially as Jose was coming back and a similar type of manager laying the groundwork for him could have made his initial task easier).
We are still missing one attacker, CB and a 6 even with those 2 hypothetical signings. Only referring to players Ole trusts here.
- Status