Frank Lampard

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SilentWitness said:
This season he definitely did a bad job and he’s continuing that with Chelsea but he’s shown in periods of his managerial career that there may be some ability. He won’t harness that if he keeps entering clubs in the shitter.
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Without being glib, he won’t get better jobs if he can’t show more than some ability in periods of his career. Those clubs are looking for managers for a reason. He’s in the same bracket as Ole. Perfectly fine and not without his qualities but the ceiling is very evident.
 
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SilentWitness said:
This season he definitely did a bad job and he’s continuing that with Chelsea but he’s shown in periods of his managerial career that there may be some ability. He won’t harness that if he keeps entering clubs in the shitter.
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Has he?
 
Brophs said:
Without being glib, he won’t get better jobs if he can’t show more than some ability in periods of his career. Those clubs are looking for managers for A reason. He’s in the same bracket as Ole. Perfectly fine and not without his qualities but the ceiling is very evident.
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That is fair. I just think if he manages to get with a club in the Championship or a foreign league where it’s hard to fail so to speak, he might find his level and forge a decent managerial career. Like you say, similar to Ole. Gerrard likely the same.

VP89 said:
VP89 said:
Has he?
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I think he did okay under the circumstances in his first Chelsea season and last season with us, yeah.
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Tactically Lampard is abysmal as seen in his first spell here and his time at Everton. His team selection forever raises eyebrows and his in game management is non-existent.

I hate him being in charge because I despise being critical of Frank Lampard. I never like club legends returning as managers.

I said from day one. A new manager would have around 7/8 games if appointed next week with absolutely no expectations. A new manager would basically have a free hit until the summer with a squad who are underperforming. It would be ideal for a manager to come in now, assess the players who can fit into their system and identify who is surplus to requirement and who is required in the summer. It would almost be like an extended pre season for a new manager with some competitive matches. Bonkers decision to have Lampard in until the summer of they know who they want in charge.

Maybe they don’t know though?
 
MayosNoun said:
Tactically Lampard is abysmal as seen in his first spell here and his time at Everton. His team selection forever raises eyebrows and his in game management is non-existent.

I hate him being in charge because I despise being critical of Frank Lampard. I never like club legends returning as managers.

I said from day one. A new manager would have around 7/8 games if appointed next week with absolutely no expectations. A new manager would basically have a free hit until the summer with a squad who are underperforming. It would be ideal for a manager to come in now, assess the players who can fit into their system and identify who is surplus to requirement and who is required in the summer. It would almost be like an extended pre season for a new manager with some competitive matches. Bonkers decision to have Lampard in until the summer of they know who they want in charge.

Maybe they don’t know though?
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Maybe they'll buy up 365 managers and give each one a day per year. I'm already looking forward to "Frank Day 2024".
 
MayosNoun said:
Tactically Lampard is abysmal as seen in his first spell here and his time at Everton. His team selection forever raises eyebrows and his in game management is non-existent.

I hate him being in charge because I despise being critical of Frank Lampard. I never like club legends returning as managers.

I said from day one. A new manager would have around 7/8 games if appointed next week with absolutely no expectations. A new manager would basically have a free hit until the summer with a squad who are underperforming. It would be ideal for a manager to come in now, assess the players who can fit into their system and identify who is surplus to requirement and who is required in the summer. It would almost be like an extended pre season for a new manager with some competitive matches. Bonkers decision to have Lampard in until the summer of they know who they want in charge.

Maybe they don’t know though?
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Maybe he is using that genius level 150 IQ to do 4d chess were not aware of?
 
SilentWitness said:
This season he definitely did a bad job and he’s continuing that with Chelsea but he’s shown in periods of his managerial career that there may be some ability. He won’t harness that if he keeps entering clubs in the shitter.
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His league record last season was W6 D2 L10 or 1.1 ppg, almost no difference to Benitez’s 1 ppg with W5 D4 L10. The only reason he came out with any kind of credit last season is because he made the situation so dire by losing 7 of his first 9 games, so a bit of late drama was able to overshadow the fact that he performed just as poorly as his predecessor’s sackable performance overall.

Let’s be honest here, you liked him before he joined Everton, the Crystal Palace game cemented a permanent fuzzy feeling, so you’ll always be inclined to understate Lampard’s deficiencies. He was out of a job for nearly a year before he picked up your team in free fall, and the only job he could find months later was another team in free fall. And in both scenarios he made them fall more freely, right off the bat. There’s a reason these are the only scenarios where he was considered; he was one of the few desperate enough to take charge of terrible situations. It’s obvious many managers rejected those “opportunities” before they ended up on Lampard. That doesn’t suggest he’s seen as a manager with some ability.
 
Brwned said:
His league record last season was W6 D2 L10 or 1.1 ppg, almost no difference to Benitez’s 1 ppg with W5 D4 L10. The only reason he came out with any kind of credit last season is because he made the situation so dire by losing 7 of his first 9 games, so a bit of late drama was able to overshadow the fact that he performed just as poorly as his predecessor’s sackable performance overall.

Let’s be honest here, you liked him before he joined Everton, the Crystal Palace game cemented a permanent fuzzy feeling, so you’ll always be inclined to understate Lampard’s deficiencies. He was out of a job for nearly a year before he picked up your team in free fall, and the only job he could find months later was another team in free fall. And in both scenarios he made them fall more freely, right off the bat. There’s a reason these are the only scenarios where he was considered; he was one of the few desperate enough to take charge of terrible situations. It’s obvious many managers rejected those “opportunities” before they ended up on Lampard. That doesn’t suggest he’s seen as a manager with some ability.
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I mean considering Benitez got rid of all the players capable of scoring and creating at the club, yeah he did well last season with what he landed with. I think he’s worked well with some players at each club and improved them. See players like Mount, Iwobi etc. also consider that he brought through quite a lot of youngsters at Chelsea, gave them the stepping stone to their careers and did well for that. I know I’m in a severe minority, and that’s fine, I just think if he’s serious about managing he needs to be sensible with his career options. Someone like Dyche will leave Everton and not be worse off for it because of his other managerial experiences and quality. Lampard isn’t really learning at Everton or Chelsea in the way that Gerrard did at Rangers for example or Ole at Molde.

Perhaps Lampard is better suited to coaching, who knows. I just don’t think Everton and Chelsea are good clubs right now for any manager .
 
Brwned said:
His league record last season was W6 D2 L10 or 1.1 ppg, almost no difference to Benitez’s 1 ppg with W5 D4 L10. The only reason he came out with any kind of credit last season is because he made the situation so dire by losing 7 of his first 9 games, so a bit of late drama was able to overshadow the fact that he performed just as poorly as his predecessor’s sackable performance overall.

Let’s be honest here, you liked him before he joined Everton, the Crystal Palace game cemented a permanent fuzzy feeling, so you’ll always be inclined to understate Lampard’s deficiencies. He was out of a job for nearly a year before he picked up your team in free fall, and the only job he could find months later was another team in free fall. And in both scenarios he made them fall more freely, right off the bat. There’s a reason these are the only scenarios where he was considered; he was one of the few desperate enough to take charge of terrible situations. It’s obvious many managers rejected those “opportunities” before they ended up on Lampard. That doesn’t suggest he’s seen as a manager with some ability.
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Exactly. He contributed to them being in a situation where they almost got fecking relegated from the Premier League (yes, yes - it wasn't all his fault), then had some late drama and managed to stay up by the skin of their teeth, and the subsequent adrenaline high of that overshadowed the piss-poor job he did.
 
Everyone and their dog wants Jose back at Chelsea. Even non Chelsea fans.

He may fail spectacularly or may absolutely kill it but Mou under Boehly will be glorious for the neutral.
 
BusbyMalone said:
Exactly. He contributed to them being in a situation where they almost got fecking relegated from the Premier League (yes, yes - it wasn't all his fault), then had some late drama and managed to stay up by the skin of their teeth, and the subsequent adrenaline high of that overshadowed the piss-poor job he did.
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But on the flipside he did better with that squad than a EL/CL and La Liga winning manager with multiple trophies who pretty much everyone would say is a better manager than him.

Dyche, who I also think is a better manager and seemingly doing a better job than him is also struggling at times with this group.

Potter at Chelsea also struggled and I think he’s a much better manager.

I just think that Lampard has gone into two situations since leaving Chelsea (the first time) which are quite toxic and poor career moves if you’re serious about management. If he goes into a club next that don’t have that toxicity and still fails, I think it’s reasonable to say he’s a bad manager.

As always, hyperbole and affinity does have place in these discussions. I obviously do feel a bit of loyalty the man for giving us that Palace day when all seemed gone but then I feel aggrieved because of the Bournemouth shambles and the post WC demise. Same as how I treat Gerrard more harshly than Lampard, because it’s gerrard and he’s a cnut.
 
SilentWitness said:
because it’s gerrard and he’s a cnut.
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Before we go any further, we are in 100% agreement here!

SilentWitness said:
But on the flipside he did better with that squad than a EL/CL and La Liga winning manager with multiple trophies who pretty much everyone would say is a better manager than him.

Dyche, who I also think is a better manager and seemingly doing a better job than him is also struggling at times with this group.

Potter at Chelsea also struggled and I think he’s a much better manager.

I just think that Lampard has gone into two situations since leaving Chelsea (the first time) which are quite toxic and poor career moves if you’re serious about management. If he goes into a club next that don’t have that toxicity and still fails, I think it’s reasonable to say he’s a bad manager.

As always, hyperbole and affinity does have place in these discussions. I obviously do feel a bit of loyalty the man for giving us that Palace day when all seemed gone but then I feel aggrieved because of the Bournemouth shambles and the post WC demise. Same as how I treat Gerrard more harshly than Lampard, because it’s gerrard and he’s a cnut.
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The Benitez appointment was a crazy one though. That was not the right fit at all. You'd know more than me of course, but it seems like the fans were never going to give him a chance when the shit hit the fan. They weren't going to rally behind the guy. It was a disaster. And the differences between their records are negligible, to the point that comparing them makes Lampard seem even worse!

Just like you have admitted to having a bias for him, I'm willing to say I may have a bias against him. But saying that, I'm not even sure that it is a bias, but more of an observation of a guy who I think is a bit of a myth when it comes to management. I just don't get it. There just seems to be this overriding feeling that a lot of people desperately want to believe that he has something, to the point where they almost convince themselves that he has. I don't know, I just find it very weird. Same with Gerrard.

I think it's because he comes across as a "serious football guy". He kind of looks the part and sounds the part...maybe. Even then I'm not sure. He has a tendency to absolve himself of a lot of blame, and always uses the excuse of "the players didn't want it enough" "not enough fight" "haven't got the balls" And such nonsense. Not for me clive.
 
BusbyMalone said:
Before we go any further, we are in 100% agreement here!



The Benitez appointment was a crazy one though. That was not the right fit at all. You'd know more than me of course, but it seems like the fans were never going to give him a chance when the shit hit the fan. They weren't going to rally behind the guy. It was a disaster. And the differences between their records are negligible, to the point that comparing them makes Lampard seem even worse!

Just like you have admitted to having a bias for him, I'm willing to say I may have a bias against him. But saying that, I'm not even sure that it is a bias, but more of an observation of a guy who I think is a bit of a myth when it comes to management. I just don't get it. There just seems to be this overriding feeling that a lot of people desperately want to believe that he has something, to the point where they almost convince themselves that he has. I don't know, I just find it very weird. Same with Gerrard.

I think it's because he comes across as a "serious football guy". He kind of looks the part and sounds the part...maybe. Even then I'm not sure. He has a tendency to absolve himself of a lot of blame, and always uses the excuse of "the players didn't want it enough" "not enough fight" "haven't got the balls" And such nonsense. Not for me clive.
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I think your comments are fair.
 
Chelsea should give him the job full time. I can't see them getting anyone better, he's clearly got a plan and yes they've lost every match so far but Frank will tell you himself that they were the better team in each of those matches just like when they got spanked 4-0 at Old Trafford.
 
It's absolutely amazing to me that they didn't convince one of their top choices to take the reigns and play these free hits out. He could have learnt about the players in this squad under relatively little pressure.

Now they're going to get to the summer and the new manager has a gigantic job to understand the players, form a style of play, deal with whatever they're doing in the market regarding FFP and further incomings. Appointing an interim just kicked the can down the road.
 
arnie_ni said:
Quoting myself here. Still can't understand why he took this job.
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I'm more confused as to why he wouldn't take the job.

Lampard is in a position where the only viable PL club was Chelsea, as interim. Otherwise I don't think a PL side touches him with a bargepole for a permanent position . Which means he will be operating in the Championship, which is not a surefire place to be successful and you're firmly back in the "rebuilding the managerial career" stage. You could argue this is where he should have spent longer building his experience base anyway, but be that as it may he got accustomed to operating at PL level so it's a step down in his eyes.

This gave him the opportunity to work with talented footballers, to take over a side which shouldn't be midtable. If he does okay he immediately begins to patch up his reputation within a fraction of a season, something which would take 1-2 years in the Championship. If he doesn't do well, what's the difference? He didn't do well at Chelsea or Everton, and he only did okay at Derby. Given he's Frank Lampard he can still drop down and get a job.
 
arnie_ni said:
Quoting myself here. Still can't understand why he took this job.
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Presumably because he loves the club and was absolutely NEVER going to get the chance to manage a top-level club again?

I would (hypothetically of course) say yes to managing United no matter how bad they were.
 
Abraxas said:
It's absolutely amazing to me that they didn't convince one of their top choices to take the reigns and play these free hits out. He could have learnt about the players in this squad under relatively little pressure.

Now they're going to get to the summer and the new manager has a gigantic job to understand the players, form a style of play, deal with whatever they're doing in the market regarding FFP and further incomings. Appointing an interim just kicked the can down the road.
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Not sure many would want to play those “free hits” out. If it doesn’t go well, you’re off on the wrong foot and there will be less mental jobs than Chelsea come the summer. Will they have any money to make big changes in the summer? I can’t believe they won’t be saint pretty soon.

I’d imagine Boehly is really in the shit with his consortium as well. He could not have done a worse job, could he? He’s a complete embarrassment. It’s brilliant to see.
 
Rocksy said:
Not sure many would want to play those “free hits” out. If it doesn’t go well, you’re off on the wrong foot and there will be less mental jobs than Chelsea come the summer. Will they have any money to make big changes in the summer? I can’t believe they won’t be saint pretty soon.

I’d imagine Boehly is really in the shit with his consortium as well. He could not have done a worse job, could he? He’s a complete embarrassment. It’s brilliant to see.
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Evidently you're right, because they didn't go to Lampard for the fun of it I'd imagine. It's because they couldn't appoint permanently.

It just surprises me a bit. As a manager you would always have an ego that says you're the man to come in and change things. That's your job, ultimately. So Potter flailing shouldn't necessarily scare anyone.

So to come in to a team with some talented players that are midtable doesn't seem that taxing to me. It's not like avoiding relegation, or something with huge jeopardy where if the players aren't good enough and you fail your career is forever tarnished. It's just the start of a process to improve a team. It's not going to be that much easier in the summer, who knows what the manager will have to work around in the market and you haven't seen the players train.
 
arnie_ni said:
To me, this is actually going to make him more un hireable after this stint.

And to answer your question, I actually don't think ole would
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I guess Lampard is smart enough to realize he is unhireable before he joined Chelsea, what happens afterwards is a coin toss.
If he turns out to become a decent manager ever it will be some miracle.
 
They're actually worse than we were under Rangnick somehow. Heck, Moyes' United were streets ahead of this Chelsea team.
 
They have some really tricky games left. They've probably done enough already to escape relegation but it's going to be a fun end to the season at least.
 
Frank Lampard has now lost 14 of his last 17 games as a manager

I mean...Jesus
 
Real Madrid had a season with three managers not that long ago, 18/19. Zidane was the third manager (coming back after only 9 months away or something) and even he couldn't get anything out of the team that season. Doubt Lampard could do much here.
 
horsechoker said:
Would Chelsea fans consider his time a success if he beat Arsenal and caused them to lose the title?
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They’re losing the title without our interference so no. But it would make his time here a bit more memorable if we beat them.
 
What’s the chance he gets the sack if they lose another couple?
 
Would they boot the caretaker out? Surely not. It's not like they're plummeting towards the Championship. But this Boehly block is a loose cannon and he might take the job himself.
 
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