So? I could have told you before we signed Mata that there is no system that can accommodate all 3 anyway.
Formations to fit in Rooney, Van Persie and Mata?
- Thread starter Walters_19_MuFc
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So? I could have told you before we signed Mata that there is no system that can accommodate all 3 anyway.
Since there was only like two months where they were all fit at the same time it is way too early to write off them playing as a tandem. Especially since we are coming off a season where none of our lineups worked.
Yep. And Rooney's the giant entitled English baby who is often out of shape and pouty.
Kagawa is technically a left forward for Japan. If Van Gaal truly likes to play with offensive fullbacks and mobile CMs, then I think Kagawa can thrive under the new managment.
Rooney will have to play as a wide forward, or welcome the bench.
--------------- DDG --------------
Rafael - New CB - Smalling - New LB
-------- Carrick - New CM ---------
-------------- Mata ---------------
----- Januzaj - RVP - Kagawa ------
Rooney will have to play as a wide forward, or welcome the bench.
--------------- DDG --------------
Rafael - New CB - Smalling - New LB
-------- Carrick - New CM ---------
-------------- Mata ---------------
----- Januzaj - RVP - Kagawa ------
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He is a striker. Him being entitled and pouty is expected.
Fair enough. I think it would depend on the formation and ethos. I think there's a possibility he could thrive in a midfield in a modric style role if he was surrounded by players who could press as a team, no guarantee of course!
He doesn't need to fit all of them in a single lineup, we're lucky to have so many quality options up front.
Shaw, in my opinion, would be a perfect full back for this system.
As for the box to box midfielder, ideally, I would like Vidal, but i'm not sure if he's a realistic target. If not him, then maybe Strootman? We need someone who can score goals from midfield.
As for the CDM, I would have Fernando Reges sitting in the front of the back four. He reads the game extremely well, quick across the ground and is decent on the ball.
As for Januzaj, if we need more natural width, then we could take off one of our strikers and put a winger on. This is what SAF used to do when playing this formation.
This is how we set up against Newscatle last season. The other games I can remember off the top of my head where we played the same formation was against Braga and West Brom.
The pictures above show the diamond.
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We could simply trick the opposition by playing two players in the same position. Rooney and Mata behind RVP.
Seriously though can anyone shed any light on his tactics, usual formation, playing style and so on?
I will like to see how Valencia will be utilized by him, kinda feel he is the type he'd use as a fullback.. Mata or Kagawa I see playing a Sneider/ Litmanen type role just off the striker trying to exploit the spaces with movements and passes..
His main signings like we have seen in major clubs will be CBs and the Defensive part of CM as the backbone of his team.. Looking at these I'd say he will be playing his usual 4-3-3...
His main signings like we have seen in major clubs will be CBs and the Defensive part of CM as the backbone of his team.. Looking at these I'd say he will be playing his usual 4-3-3...
A diamond certainly makes the best use of all 3, but it all depends on who we bring in as to whether that suits the rest of the side
Van Gaal favors a 433 formation system. I can see Van Gaal will drop one of Mata or Rooney or play one of them out of position.
With 433 I can't see Van Gaal goes for defensive midfield this summer. Most likely he will try to find box to box midfield because we don't have one. He will probably will give a chance to Carrick or Fellaini as a deeplying midfield.
I think he used to play two forwards with one shunt out wide.. If memory serves me right.. That should suit our strikers.... Lets say Mata can do the buzzing around the front 3, supported by 2 CMs..
Should work especially if the philosophy is possession based.
Don't know if this has been posted already-but it's a slide from LvG's Barca tactics presentation. As many have noted, the orchestrator sits deep at 6, with 5 attacking players in front. Seems to me that Mata and Kagawa may be suited for 10 and 8; RvP at 9. Wellbeck and another pacy player at 11 and 7. Not sure where Rooney fits in--I don't think he's best suited for a deep-lying playmaker, behind the striker or on the wing. Unless Rooney plays up top, I think we're not playing him at his best position. Not sure how that squares with RvP as main striker.
Don't know if this has been posted already-but it's a slide from LvG's Barca tactics presentation. As many have noted, the orchestrator sits deep at 6, with 5 attacking players in front. Seems to me that Mata and Kagawa may be suited for 10 and 8; RvP at 9. Wellbeck and another pacy player at 11 and 7. Not sure where Rooney fits in--I don't think he's best suited for a deep-lying playmaker, behind the striker or on the wing. Unless Rooney plays up top, I think we're not playing him at his best position. Not sure how that squares with RvP as main striker.
If we solve that how many seconds extra do we get inside the crystal dome?
I quite like the look of that!
Ooh.. This will happen.. He plays footballers in the position he feels is suited to his system not what they think of themselves....
This will be noticed even further with the youngsters coming through... For him its all about what he thinks of you, not the publics perception..
I think in the Holland friendly against Ecuador he played with 3 at the back which I think could be the best way for us to go if we are going to try and fit RVP, Rooney and Mata all in one team. Maybe something like this:
----------------DDG--------------------
-------Jones---Evans---Smalling--------
Rafael-----Carrick---Fletcher-----Evra
-----------------Mata-----------------
------------Rooney----RVP-------------
I don't know if it would be any good though and obviously we are going to have new players.
----------------DDG--------------------
-------Jones---Evans---Smalling--------
Rafael-----Carrick---Fletcher-----Evra
-----------------Mata-----------------
------------Rooney----RVP-------------
I don't know if it would be any good though and obviously we are going to have new players.
He probably favours a 4-3-3, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll play it. He's played different formations at all the clubs he's been at.
Sorry but that's what I have been saying. He will stick on his system even if he has to play one of them out of position like what he did to Rivaldo in Barca. If still not good enough after being play out of position then he will drop one of them.
I think you have to work with the team you have. We have Kagawa, Rooney and Mata who all play as No.10s. Januzaj can also play there so that is four quality players who can play No.10. When you have so much quality in one position you don't just go and play a formation without that position.
I just feel that diamond might not a typical of Van Gaal. He seems favor a wing formation more.
That's what the manager should do. But for Van Gaal. He's a typical of a manager who will stick on his system and philosophy. If his system and philosophy is play 433 then it will be a danger for our current squad.
Don't think he will write them off so soon but that's is the most important area in all his teams.. He never overlook those areas coz the way his team plays tend to hinge on these players....
He might not bring in a deep lying guy straight away but if what we have does not impress him, surely he will bring in one.. That is a very important role to his philosophy.... Think Carrick will be his type though...
Would something like this be too weak defensively?
Rooney in the #10 spot, since he's proven he can track back. Mata's out of position, so that might be a problem. Might, he also might be just as good as an attacking winger. This is the best I could come up with to fit all 3 of them and still retain van Gaal's policy for wide play.
Realistically, I see one of them being dropped. Rooney, to be precise. RvP would become untouchable and I'd rather rid of Rooney over Mata.
Rooney in the #10 spot, since he's proven he can track back. Mata's out of position, so that might be a problem. Might, he also might be just as good as an attacking winger. This is the best I could come up with to fit all 3 of them and still retain van Gaal's policy for wide play.
Realistically, I see one of them being dropped. Rooney, to be precise. RvP would become untouchable and I'd rather rid of Rooney over Mata.
I don't think he will play a 4-3-3. I think he will stick with the good ol' 4-2-3-1. We will have to wait and see. We have to trust his judgement I suppose.
4231 and 433 are still similar in our current situation because we need to drop one of Mata or Rooney or play one of them out of position.
I agree.. Don't have a problem with it either but remember Rivaldo played in the role for Brazil and just didn't wanna do it for Van Gaal..
He doesn't do it to get one over them, he does it coz he thinks it will get the best out of them...
I don't know if formations matter so much i.e., a 4-3-3 vs a 4-3-2-1 or a 4-3-1-2
What I'd like to see is
............RvP............
......Mata.....Kag......
..........Rooney.........
......CDM1....CDM2....
LB....CB...CB....RB....
...........DDG............
......OR
............RvP............
..........Rooney.........
......Mata.....Kag......
......CDM1....CDM2....
LB....CB...CB....RB....
...........DDG............
This way we have a strong base of 2 defensive minded mid fielders with the fullbacks attacking the wide areas..you get the rest...
What I'd like to see is
............RvP............
......Mata.....Kag......
..........Rooney.........
......CDM1....CDM2....
LB....CB...CB....RB....
...........DDG............
......OR
............RvP............
..........Rooney.........
......Mata.....Kag......
......CDM1....CDM2....
LB....CB...CB....RB....
...........DDG............
This way we have a strong base of 2 defensive minded mid fielders with the fullbacks attacking the wide areas..you get the rest...
I feel like you are just repeating my quote.
Van Gaal did always say he would stick to his philosophy, despite what system he plays. For example, he could play a 4-4-2 but have the same philosophy as playing a 4-3-3.
442 is more suited for us though since we have 4 strikers. But with Mata and Kagawa 4231 is more suited. Obviously diamond is a formation to solve this problem but Van Gaal favors more wing formation. It doesn't matter what formation we are using but the main problem is Van Gaal usually always stick to his philosophy
Lol... Yeah we are...
Van Persie will be main man for obvious reasons. Mata is fantastic and very productive, he should always play behind the main striker.
If we really want to play all of them at the same time, then Rooney should be shifted to the left. I believe he can do a job there, while his defensive contribution is still a big asset.
However, “best players don't always make up the best team”, so there is a chance one of them (Rooney most likely) will be dropped sometimes. Considering rotation and RVP injuries I don’t think it will be an issue though.
If we really want to play all of them at the same time, then Rooney should be shifted to the left. I believe he can do a job there, while his defensive contribution is still a big asset.
However, “best players don't always make up the best team”, so there is a chance one of them (Rooney most likely) will be dropped sometimes. Considering rotation and RVP injuries I don’t think it will be an issue though.
Our squad is not very balanced.
We have a solid keeper but most of our defenders and midfielders are not good enough to play for us and we might need 4-5 new players in these departments: LB, 2xCM and 1-2 CB.
We have very talented players upfront in Rooney, RvP, Mata and Januzaj but both Rooney and Mata prefer the No 10 role which is a problem.
I would set up our midfield and attack in the following way where Rooney and Mata will interchange:
---------Pacy DCM(??)---Creative CM---
---Mata---------Rooney--------Januzaj--
----------------RvP--------------------
The creative CM might be Fabregas (1st choice), Kroos (2nd choice) or Carrick if he discovers his form. A Fabregas-Carrick CM might work reasonably well but our team would lack real pace and dribbling skills which is why a player such as Robben would make sense, but I'm afraid we need to spend that money elsewhere.
We have a solid keeper but most of our defenders and midfielders are not good enough to play for us and we might need 4-5 new players in these departments: LB, 2xCM and 1-2 CB.
We have very talented players upfront in Rooney, RvP, Mata and Januzaj but both Rooney and Mata prefer the No 10 role which is a problem.
I would set up our midfield and attack in the following way where Rooney and Mata will interchange:
---------Pacy DCM(??)---Creative CM---
---Mata---------Rooney--------Januzaj--
----------------RvP--------------------
The creative CM might be Fabregas (1st choice), Kroos (2nd choice) or Carrick if he discovers his form. A Fabregas-Carrick CM might work reasonably well but our team would lack real pace and dribbling skills which is why a player such as Robben would make sense, but I'm afraid we need to spend that money elsewhere.
Yep. Just as him never being captain is expected.
---------------------------
-----------CDM
---Mata---Cleverley--Kagawa
-------RVP------Rooney----
Mata and Kagawa provide the width from shallow and Cleverley provides the quick passes in the attacking third. Fullbacks don't overlap unless it's an overload and the opposition isn't deep.
I will admit this group of players is a bit of a dilemma. Mata was the signing that we probably should have made when we signed Kagawa.. For me, since signed Kagawa and if we aren't letting SK go we've made the Mata signing quite pointless. I have always maintained it was the right signing at the wrong time.
-----------CDM
---Mata---Cleverley--Kagawa
-------RVP------Rooney----
Mata and Kagawa provide the width from shallow and Cleverley provides the quick passes in the attacking third. Fullbacks don't overlap unless it's an overload and the opposition isn't deep.
I will admit this group of players is a bit of a dilemma. Mata was the signing that we probably should have made when we signed Kagawa.. For me, since signed Kagawa and if we aren't letting SK go we've made the Mata signing quite pointless. I have always maintained it was the right signing at the wrong time.