Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful

[Bobade]

Would you say the same about attacking or stereotyping Tories or Labour?

Tell me what the difference is between chosen
religious beliefs and chosen political beliefs? Both should be open to criticism and able to freely attack such archaic views.

I'm not religious, but this is a false equivalence. People's beliefs in a higher power, that are based on thousands of years of teaching and are embedded deeply in culture are not equal to allegiance to a political party. You can dislike religions and their teachings without being disrespectful, I think.

 

[Roane]

At this point it's not only about homophobia. It's also about authoritarianism and national pride for the nations involved.

What are Qatari's gonna do next? Dictate the jerseys? Maybe all our players should play in a turban. Feck em sideways.

Isn't this a FIFA rule adopted by all FA's?

I know there is one that got likes of Jaydon Sancho trouble


"Players must not reveal undergarments that show political, religious, personal slogans, statements or images, or advertising other than the manufacturer's logo.

"For any offence the player and/or the team will be sanctioned by the competition organiser, national football association or by FIFA " - International Football Association Board Law 4.5

 

[stevoc]

FIFA are doing a great job of really highlighting these arm bands and what they stand for. Booking a captain just for wearing one before the match even starts gives them way more exposure than just quietly ignoring a few captains wearing them ever could.

 

[Abizzz]

Isn't this a FIFA rule adopted by all FA's?

I know there is one that got likes of Jaydon Sancho trouble


"Players must not reveal undergarments that show political, religious, personal slogans, statements or images, or advertising other than the manufacturer's logo.

"For any offence the player and/or the team will be sanctioned by the competition organiser, national football association or by FIFA " - International Football Association Board Law 4.5

When captains armbands become undergarments you'll have a point to make.

 

[calodo2003]

Was going to post this, but I thought it was a piss take.

 

[Roane]

When captains armbands become undergarments you'll have a point to make.

I was asking the question, but ok here you go

: 'At FIFA tournaments, match staff must wear official clothing and equipment provided by FIFA, including FIFA event badges specified and provided by FIFA.'

 

[do.ob]

I'm from Pakistan, I've studied and worked with Christians. Hell, I studied in a Christian school where most of our teachers, and the dean, were Christian. There are tons of expat Christians in UAE, Qatar and Saudi because they work there.

What hatred have you been fed to believe what you're saying?

So the things listed here, under "persecution", "discrimination in the constitution", "blasphemy laws", "forced conversions", "forced displacements" and "Muslim extremist violence against Christians"? They aren't true?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Pakistan#Persecution

 

[Abizzz]

I was asking the question, but ok here you go

: 'At FIFA tournaments, match staff must wear official clothing and equipment provided by FIFA, including FIFA event badges specified and provided by FIFA.'

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse or do you really not know what undergarments or match staff mean?

 

[stevoc]

I was asking the question, but ok here you go

: 'At FIFA tournaments, match staff must wear official clothing and equipment provided by FIFA, including FIFA event badges specified and provided by FIFA.'

I don't think the players fall under Match staff, unless I'm mistaken and FIFA are actually the ones manufacturing and providing the match kits as opposed to Adidas/Nike.

 

[Roane]

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse or do you really not know what undergarments or match staff mean?

Apparently match staff includes the players. But I maybe wrong

As it happens teams have to officially write to the ruling body, see uefa giving permission.

England have written to FIFA, as may have other teams, but until they get permission the rules are FIFA rules re punishments.

That was the question I was asking. You seem hell bent on blaming Qatar for everything, and in some cases rightly so. However this is a FIFA rule. Sure Qatar may influence it now but again it's up to FIFA to show a backbone not players

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Isn't this a FIFA rule adopted by all FA's?

I know there is one that got likes of Jaydon Sancho trouble


"Players must not reveal undergarments that show political, religious, personal slogans, statements or images, or advertising other than the manufacturer's logo.

"For any offence the player and/or the team will be sanctioned by the competition organiser, national football association or by FIFA " - International Football Association Board Law 4.5

Wearing a rainbow armband isn't a political or a religious statement. It's about universal human rights.

 

[dumbo]

I was asking the question, but ok here you go

: 'At FIFA tournaments, match staff must wear official clothing and equipment provided by FIFA, including FIFA event badges specified and provided by FIFA.'

Stop. Think. Then post.

All your posts come thick and fast and all read like those of a simpleton.

Please have a moment to compose yourself before trying next time. I'm trying to help you improve here.

 

[Abizzz]

Apparently match staff includes the players. But I maybe wrong

As it happens teams have to officially write to the ruling body, see uefa giving permission.

England have written to FIFA, as may have other teams, but until they get permission the rules are FIFA rules re punishments.

That was the question I was asking. You seem hell bent on blaming Qatar for everything, and in some cases rightly so. However this is a FIFA rule. Sure Qatar may influence it now but again it's up to FIFA to show a backbone not players

You're wrong and it's a long established fact that nations provide their own jerseys and captain armbands.

And of course it's because of Qatar. Do you think this is the first world cup ever or something?

 

[Roane]

You're wrong and it's a long established fact that nations provide their own jersey's and captain armbands.

And of course it's because of Qatar. Do you think this is the first world cup ever or something?

I maybe wrong about the match staff bit but it seems you are wrong about the captain's armbands.



But there is also this

Rule 4.3 of Fifa’s equipment regulations states: “No item (of playing kit or other clothing or equipment or otherwise) may be worn or used in any controlled area if Fifa considers that it is dangerous, offensive or indecent, includes political, religious, or personal slogans, statements, or images, or otherwise does not comply in full with the laws of the game.”

Infantino addressed it as well. FIFA provide captain's armbands with certain "approved" messages.

 

[Abizzz]

I maybe wrong about the match staff bit but it seems you are wrong about the captain's armbands.



But there is also this

Rule 4.3 of Fifa’s equipment regulations states: “No item (of playing kit or other clothing or equipment or otherwise) may be worn or used in any controlled area if Fifa considers that it is dangerous, offensive or indecent, includes political, religious, or personal slogans, statements, or images, or otherwise does not comply in full with the laws of the game.”

Infantino addressed it as well. FIFA provide captain's armbands with certain "approved" messages.

So every game that was played with any sort of remembrance armband ever should be nullified, right?

 

[Roane]

So every game that was played with any sort of remembrance armband ever should be nullified, right?

Why you arguing with me as if Ive made the rules? Chill .

Maybe they sought permission for it? That's the process as I've highlighted above.

With captain's armbands specifically they are FIFA items apparently

"For FIFA final competitions, the captain of each team must wear the captain's armband provided by FIFA," the soccer body's equipment regulations state.

So teams have asked for permission. FIFA wants to stick with their agreed upon "value" statements. Apparently there is about 7 over the course of the WC. One is no discrimination.

 

[Abizzz]

Why you arguing with me as if Ive made the rules? Chill .

Maybe they sought permission for it? That's the process as I've highlighted above.

With captain's armbands specifically they are FIFA items apparently

"For FIFA final competitions, the captain of each team must wear the captain's armband provided by FIFA," the soccer body's equipment regulations state.

So teams have asked for permission. FIFA wants to stick with their agreed upon "value" statements. Apparently there is about 7 over the course of the WC. One is no discrimination.

Because you seem to be incredibly invested in defending the ridiculous.

Look we've been playing this thing called international football for a while and captain armbands have been around a bit. IF fifa suddenly introduced a bunch of shady rules to accommodate for the host they sold their tournament to it doesn't change anything. It should still result in the players walking off and not playing for someone who wants to play dolls with them.

 

[Doracle]

FIFA really are absolute morons. They’ve known for ages that rainbow armbands were planned and wait until the day of the England match before seemingly briefing it may lead to a yellow card.

We can’t back down today. Kane getting a yellow card for it is a great way to highlight the point. The FA can then make a strong statement and if we have to go back to a standard armband for the second game after that publicity so be it.

 

[Bepi]

I was reading the English fans (for the booze) and the Dutch fans (for the rainbow) are being instructed at home to keep quiet? It would be hilarious to see, all at once, a mini Eintracht contingent make a mess of Qatari “kind hospitality”.

 

[The Purley King]

FIFA really are absolute morons. They’ve known for ages that rainbow armbands were planned and wait until the day of the England match before seemingly briefing it may lead to a yellow card.

We can’t back down today. Kane getting a yellow card for it is a great way to highlight the point. The FA can then make a strong statement and if we have to go back to a standard armband for the second game after that publicity so be it.

Every country should be wearing one. Let FIFA/Qatar do what they want, its beyond farcical at this point.

Edit - if Kane doesn't wear one now it will just highlight how utterly spineless our FA are.

@duffer - agree completely re: the referees, if they do have to give a yellow pre-kick off I imagine that will come with a large apology.

 

[Marwood]

Why you arguing with me as if Ive made the rules? Chill .

Maybe they sought permission for it? That's the process as I've highlighted above.

With captain's armbands specifically they are FIFA items apparently

"For FIFA final competitions, the captain of each team must wear the captain's armband provided by FIFA," the soccer body's equipment regulations state.

So teams have asked for permission. FIFA wants to stick with their agreed upon "value" statements. Apparently there is about 7 over the course of the WC. One is no discrimination.

@Roane

Putting aside the granular detail of the rules, wouldn't you like to see the issue of rights for homosexuals raised in such a way?

 

[Roane]

Because you seem to be incredibly invested in defending the ridiculous.

Look we've been playing this thing called international football for a while and captain armbands have been around a bit. IF fifa suddenly introduced a bunch of shady rules to accommodate for the host they sold their tournament to it doesn't change anything. It should still result in the players walking off and not playing for someone who wants to play dolls with them.

Defending the ridiculous? I responded to your points by asking if it's on FIFA and it seems it is.

These are not "new rules". It's been in place for a while. Teams know the process as do FAs, to write and ask for any changes. Teams have had 12 years to ask and did so a few days ago if the newspapers are to be believed.

 

[stevoc]

Why you arguing with me as if Ive made the rules? Chill .

Maybe they sought permission for it? That's the process as I've highlighted above.

With captain's armbands specifically they are FIFA items apparently

"For FIFA final competitions, the captain of each team must wear the captain's armband provided by FIFA," the soccer body's equipment regulations state.

So teams have asked for permission. FIFA wants to stick with their agreed upon "value" statements. Apparently there is about 7 over the course of the WC. One is no discrimination.

The irony.

 

[Abizzz]

Defending the ridiculous? I responded to your points by asking if it's on FIFA and it seems it is.

These are not "new rules". It's been in place for a while. Teams know the process as do FAs, to write and ask for any changes. Teams have had 12 years to ask and did so a few days ago if the newspapers are to be believed.

They played the nations league games with those exact armbands and Fifa somehow didn't mind.

 

[stevoc]

FIFA really are absolute morons. They’ve known for ages that rainbow armbands were planned and wait until the day of the England match before seemingly briefing it may lead to a yellow card.

We can’t back down today. Kane getting a yellow card for it is a great way to highlight the point. The FA can then make a strong statement and if we have to go back to a standard armband for the second game after that publicity so be it.

Expect a lot of last minute changes at this tournament.

 

[Roane]

@Roane

Putting aside the granular detail of the rules, wouldn't you like to see the issue of rights for homosexuals raised in such a way?

Personally no. Rights and injustice needs to go further if people truly believe in it.

I say the same about kick it out as an Asian male.

It's just gesturing with very little change in football. I would go as far as saying jumping on bandwagons by some because it's the in thing.

For me these things are not a sometime thing, they are an all the time thing.

Harry kane, for example may well be making a noble gesture and coming from the right place. But how much is he invested in it as a whole? If it's just something that I bought up on a football pitch because it's an issue but not in his daily life/dealings I don't think it's noble.

If that makes sense? And I'm just using Harry as an example I don't know if he is invested in LGBTQ issues outside of football. Hopefully he is.

I think LGBTQ people are rightly invested in any gesture but I feel, rightly or wrongly, that some folk are more about bashing Qatar than any real investment in LGBTQ issues.

 

[Reditus]

Did the Qatar captain wear the Palestine armband yesterday? Im sure I read that somewhere.

Also are Poland due to wear a Ukrainian one

If thats the case surely the One Love armband should also be accepted

 

[Roane]

They played the nations league games with those exact armbands and Fifa somehow didn't mind.

Did they get permission?

 

[Abizzz]

Did they get permission?

Nations aren't some schoolboys in boarding schools. I hope not.

 

[Tibs]

Did the Qatar captain wear the Palestine armband yesterday? Im sure I read that somewhere.

Also are Poland due to wear a Ukrainian one

If thats the case surely the One Love armband should also be accepted

I posted that he had as it said so on Instagram - but I don't think he did as I couldn't see it when I was looking for it.

 

[VorZakone]

Van Dijk won't wear the OneLove for fear of punishment.

 

[stevoc]

Did the Qatar captain wear the Palestine armband yesterday? Im sure I read that somewhere.

Also are Poland due to wear a Ukrainian one

If thats the case surely the One Love armband should also be accepted

Apparently he did.

 

[Skills]

If this world cup ends up being the end of FIFA, that would be some result

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Did they get permission?

From UEFA, yes.

Which is a subsidiary of FIFA.

 

[Marwood]

Personally no. Rights and injustice needs to go further if people truly believe in it.

I say the same about kick it out as an Asian male.

It's just gesturing with very little change in football. I would go as far as saying jumping on bandwagons by some because it's the in thing.

For me these things are not a sometime thing, they are an all the time thing.

Harry kane, for example may well be making a noble gesture and coming from the right place. But how much is he invested in it as a whole? If it's just something that I bought up on a football pitch because it's an issue but not in his daily life/dealings I don't think it's noble.

If that makes sense? And I'm just using Harry as an example I don't know if he is invested in LGBTQ issues outside of football. Hopefully he is.

I think LGBTQ people are rightly invested in any gesture but I feel, rightly or wrongly, that some folk are more about bashing Qatar than any real investment in LGBTQ issues.

Agree we need more than armbands but I don't see the harm in this instance. It's only a small gesture, why not let it go ahead?

It's just confusing to me. Above you say you'd like to see more done on LGBTQ issues but at the same time you seem a pretty adherent follower of the Quran. Which as you've said yourself is pretty clear on the issue in a not so favourable way.

I wouldn't normally ask these questions but given the nature of this thread and you posting here would you like to clear up what you actually believe with regards to homosexual people?

Is homosexuality immoral?

Should it be legal or illegal to be gay?

 

[Roane]

Nations aren't some schoolboys in boarding schools. I hope not.

They still sign up to rules and laws. And have to follow the process. Stupid to think otherwise.

It happens in all sport.

 

[Abizzz]

They still sign up to rules and laws. And have to follow the process. Stupid to think otherwise.

It happens in all sport.

And now we suddenly have a Fifa behaving like the corrupt authoritarian country it sold it's event to and instead of adhering to rules every one agrees on have fifa behaving like the dictators they mingle with. At some point it becomes too much to take for anyone with self respect.

 

[Abizzz]

If this world cup ends up being the end of FIFA, that would be some result

We really need an association of footballing nations to keep this shit from ever happening again.

 

[Reditus]

Kane will now not wear it according to SKY

 

[do.ob]

So they crumble under the tremendous weight of a yellow card? Clowns.