Football is boring and lacks real superstars

[Red Star One]

how can you say football is boring when Austria - Turkey is on

 

[simonhch]

Guardiola has ruined football. And the gravitation over the last 25 years towards athleticism above everything leads to games like we just watched between France and Belgium which are essentially just cyborg wars.

I came here to make the same points. Guardiola, aside from being a serial cheat, has absolutely ruined football as a spectacle with his school of thought and the disciples that follow him. He’s the worst thing to happen to football since Sepp Blatter.

And athleticism….same thing. High lines and pressing means that pace, stamina and athleticism that can be reflected on data sheets, is a very top priority. And it’s been to the detriment of technique to some degree, and the absolute death of artistry. Guardiola and his cult would know artistic, beautiful football if it hit them square in the nuts. Which I wish it would.

 

[Flying high]

how can you say football is boring when Austria - Turkey is on

The exception which proves the rule.

 

[Rozay]

how can you say football is boring when Austria - Turkey is on

The most entertaining games of the tournament have all happened at that level though. With the exception of Spain and Germany, most of the elite have been boring, defensive, overly tactical and similar. It has been the less fancied, journeymen players who have actually had a go.

 

[fps]

I’m enjoying international football more than club. They have to make do with what they have and make the best of it.

 

[Tibs]

Ronaldinho, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Rooney, Benzema, Berbatov, Tevez, Ibra, Hazard, Rio, Puyol, Ramos, De Bruyne, CRISTIANO RONALDO, Aguero to name just a few of the huge players that have retired over the past 4-5 years, and Ronaldo and Messi with not long left to go.

The new batch of 'superstar' players just aren't on their level yet...only Haaland, and Mbappe come to mind.

 

[Camilo]

Sounds like growing up to me. Football is exciting for the first decade of your adult life, and then you realise it's the same with fewer and fewer players you recognise. Pretty standard human.

 

[doubleohseven]

People have short memories. 18 months ago we witnessed the greatest world cup final of all time, one of the best games ever played and it was a showcase dominated by 2 superstars - one of which is the greatest player of all time, the other the current best player in the world.

Qatar 2022 was a fairly mediocre tournament, brightened up by a classic final which came to life only after seventy minutes.

Wouldn't put Messi down as the greatest ever, either, but think perception is divaricated by 'GOAT' arguments. One could easily suggest another player and be just as correct.

Football has become boring, if it is, precisely because of the hype surrounding it. Expectations, to harvest demand, are ridiculous.

 

[Red Star One]

Ronaldinho, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Rooney, Benzema, Berbatov, Tevez, Ibra, Hazard, Rio, Puyol, Ramos, De Bruyne, CRISTIANO RONALDO, Aguero to name just a few of the huge players that have retired over the past 4-5 years, and Ronaldo and Messi with not long left to go.

The new batch of 'superstar' players just aren't on their level yet...only Haaland, and Mbappe come to mind.

This is pure nostalgia as several of the current under 23-25 players have already surpassed (Berbatov? Tevez?) many of those players or at least look as exciting in terms of talent.
(caveat being we won't see another Messi/Cristiano for a while, but that was obviously an unusual era and we were blessed to witness those two, don't expect such players should come every 10-20 years)

 

[Von Mistelroum]

I really do think that outside of Vinicius and maybe Mmbop, there aren't any true superstars anymore. Quite sad really but things tend to go in cycles, so I reckon it'll come round again.

 

[VorZakone]

This is pure nostalgia as several of the current under 23-25 players have already surpassed (Berbatov? Tevez?) many of those players or at least look as exciting in terms of talent.

Who are these many U25 players that look as exciting? The post you replied to mentioned the obvious ones like Haaland and Mbappe. I'd add the likes of Bellingham and Vinicius too.

But who else?

 

[Nicolarra90]

I can't force myself to watch this game anymore unless United is playing. I could not focus on France vs Belgium for a minute even though it would've been a blockbuster match in the past.

Your NT is probably shite.

 

[Red Star One]

I really do think that outside of Vinicius and maybe Mmbop, there aren't any true superstars anymore. Quite sad really but things tend to go in cycles, so I reckon it'll come round again.

Bellingham is at the moment arguably the biggest English superstar in the last decade or two, at the age of 21. He's Ballon d'Or contender (when's the last time England had that?) and he plays first fiddle for the most dominant team on the planet.
Yamal is arguably the most exciting Spanish talent in the last decade or two, maybe even more than that.
Musiala & Wirtz (with Musiala being even more special) are the most creative and technical German offensive players in a very long while, last one being able to produce some magic was Ozil and his peak was very short.

Nostalgia, nostalgia, nostalgia.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Ronaldinho, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Rooney, Benzema, Berbatov, Tevez, Ibra, Hazard, Rio, Puyol, Ramos, De Bruyne, CRISTIANO RONALDO, Aguero to name just a few of the huge players that have retired over the past 4-5 years, and Ronaldo and Messi with not long left to go.

The new batch of 'superstar' players just aren't on their level yet...only Haaland, and Mbappe come to mind.

Must have missed De Bruyne and Ronaldo retiring, thought they played yesterday.

 

[Red Star One]

Who are these many U25 players that look as exciting? The post you replied to mentioned the obvious ones like Haaland and Mbappe. I'd add the likes of Bellingham and Vinicius too.

But who else?

As per my post above

Bellingham is at the moment arguably the biggest English superstar in the last decade or two, at the age of 21. He's Ballon d'Or contender (when's the last time England had that?) and he plays first fiddle for the most dominant team on the planet.
Yamal is arguably the most exciting Spanish talent in the last decade or two, maybe even more than that.
Musiala & Wirtz (with Musiala being even more special) are the most creative and technical German offensive players in a very long while, last one being able to produce some magic was Ozil and his peak was very short.

Nostalgia, nostalgia, nostalgia.

and that's already discounting two world class players in Mbappe and Haaland who should not be measured against Messi and Ronaldo.

add to that Brazil having Vincius (as good as Neymar and IMO higher ceiling, so the biggest Brazil talent in a decade or two) and extremely hyped Endrick, the next big thing (if not, Estevao)
Pedri got destroyed and who knows if he'll be able to realise his full potential, but there's every chance he still goes on and has a career considered world class, remembered for decades. Gvardiol is immense already and could well be the best defender in history of Croatia or all Balkan countries. Mainoo is the best United academy prospect since Rashford and seems to be more determined than Sir Marcus, so I'd say he's the best United prospect in a very long while. Cubrasi and Guiu are rated much higher than other La Masia prospect in the last couple of years. The list goes on - I think there are so many exciting players at the moment.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

I think it's unfair to blame Pep for this as players like Messi and Iniesta blossomed under him. The thing that stings me is that no player stands out during a game anymore and it is robotic.

 

[Infordin]

Messi and Neymar are a throwback from the previous generation. Those type of players all-round attacking monsters (goals + creativity + chance creation + dribbling) just don’t exist anymore. We do have a Hazard regen in Musiala.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

I think there's a a lot of nostalgia when people say this. I agree it gets boring if everyone is trying to emulate Pep football but when I rewatch clips of gameplay from the 90s and 2000s of Serie A, La Liga, Prem etc it gets frustrating to watch. Sometimes teams can't even string 3 passes together and play too many illogical long balls. Maybe there were more individuals trying to show off their skill back then but some of the overall football looks lower quality and slow.

 

[Kwabs]

³

I think there's a a lot of nostalgia when people say this. I agree it gets boring if everyone is trying to emulate Pep football but when I rewatch clips of gameplay from the 90s and 2000s of Serie A, La Liga, Prem etc it gets frustrating to watch. Sometimes teams can't even string 3 passes together and play too many illogical long balls. Maybe there were more individuals trying to show off their skill back then but some of the overall football looks lower quality and slow.

I think this is a fair point. Serie A had the best league in the world in the 80s and people were top scoring at that time with, like,15 goals. It was so hideously defensive. Let us also not forget that football was deemed to have become so defensive and boring by the time of the 1990 world cup that they actually changed the rules. No one now is crying out for new rules to encourage attacking play. The last World Cup set a record for goals scored in the 32-team format.

What has changed for the worse though is the gradual elimination of the skilful maverick player, due to the increasing professionalism of the game, in concert with the greater emphasis on robotic systems and metrics. It does feel like the great entertainers no longer have a place in the modern game, and that's sad.

 

[christy87]

I miss snap 30 yard shots, the only one who takes them on now is Bruno and he is derided for it, or a player grabbing the game by the balls and going for a Maisy run, no one remembers city's walk in goals, but who forgets maniche's curler from the edge of the box, Henry on the volley from 20/30 yard looper, Rooney smashing through the ball

 

[El Jefe]

I'll go by decade and list the most entertaining players at the top level or near the top and we can judge;

2024 - Vinicius, Pedri, Mbappe, KDB, Bellingham, Musiala, Palmer, Yamal, N.Williams, Odegaard

2014 - Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Bale, Ibrahimovic, Iniesta, Ozil, Hazard, Alexis, D.Silva

2004 - Ronaldinho, Zidane, Ronaldo, Henry, Kaka, Adriano, Deco, Riquelme, Totti, Robben, Cristiano

I was running out of players in 2024 but the earlier years I was struggling to keep to 10 names. I could have easily added Yaya, Ribery, Pogba, Di Maria in 2014 and Scholes, Okocha, Aimar, Seedorf, Van der Vaart in 2004.

 

[Theonas]

You can have the odd outlier game that is exciting and brilliant, without the overriding idea that football is far more boring than it used to be, being wrong.

If I say humans have two legs, and you say “my mate only has one leg”, my original statement wasn’t wrong.

It really isn't an outlier. It's just what humans do. We find new things exciting, get older, find the same things boring because the initial novelty wears off. I remember my parents and uncles thinking football was boring compared to their time when I was growing up. I myself remember football in the '00s where big games were synonimous with cagey drab affairs where you pounce on the opponent's mistake. "European performance" was a term used to describe a boring game where you go away and keep a clean sheet and hopefully get a goal. The pace was definitely slower and the quality on the ball was significantly less than today. On the other hand, we had more physicality and it was maybe easier for a mercurial talent to stand out as defences were not as organised. Each time had traits that made it fun and ones that got significantly improved on and it's only in the eye of the watcher and that they focus on and compare it to.

 

[Theonas]

I came here to make the same points. Guardiola, aside from being a serial cheat, has absolutely ruined football as a spectacle with his school of thought and the disciples that follow him. He’s the worst thing to happen to football since Sepp Blatter.

And athleticism….same thing. High lines and pressing means that pace, stamina and athleticism that can be reflected on data sheets, is a very top priority. And it’s been to the detriment of technique to some degree, and the absolute death of artistry. Guardiola and his cult would know artistic, beautiful football if it hit them square in the nuts. Which I wish it would.

The technical level of the PL is light years ahead of how it was 20 years ago. Off the cuff talent is significantly less but technique is at an all time high.

 

[JB7]

I think it's unfair to blame Pep for this as players like Messi and Iniesta blossomed under him. The thing that stings me is that no player stands out during a game anymore and it is robotic.

I'm not commenting on the general point so much although I do think it holds a degree of validity, but the Guardiola that Messi and Iniesta blossomed under was clearly a very different Guardiola to that of today. And that's not a criticism by the way, you'd expect dramatic differences in a manager when comparing them 10-15 years apart.

 

[acnumber9]

The technical level of the PL is light years ahead of how it was 20 years ago. Off the cuff talent is significantly less but technique is at an all time high.

That’s a statement with no basis in reality.

 

[Vidyoyo]

That’s a statement with no basis in reality.

I can only think they mean discipline when they say 'technical level'

 

[Theonas]

That’s a statement with no basis in reality.

You don't think there was more hoofing of the ball in the '90s from defenders and goalkeepers? What was required from the typical PL full back at the time compared to now? Everyone at a top team is expected to be able to handle the ball under pressure. Resorting to lumping it and hoping is seen now as a big no no at the top clubs whereas it was fairly standard back in the day. Even mid table sides nowadays can bring the ball out the back and build up different phases of play. What I remember in the '90s and early '00s is being physical and relying on set pieces and the big man up front. Of course some still do it nowadays but it's no longer the norm.

 

[acnumber9]

I can only think they mean discipline when they say 'technical level'

And fitter. That’s about all I could say.

 

[acnumber9]

You don't think there was more hoofing of the ball in the '90s from defenders and goalkeepers? What was required from the typical PL full back at the time compared to now? Everyone at a top team is expected to be able to handle the ball under pressure. Resorting to lumping it and hoping is seen now as a big no no at the top clubs whereas it was fairly standard back in the day. Even mid table sides nowadays can bring the ball out the back and build up different phases of play. What I remember in the '90s and early '00s is being physical and relying on set pieces and the big man up front. Of course some still do it nowadays but it's no longer the norm.

Maybe but short passing is not the only technique. Where are the dribblers like Ryan Giggs? Where’s the Paul Scholes? Denis Bergkamp, Henry, even Matt Le Tissier? What you are talking about are tactics.

In the late 90’s and early noughties the best teams in England were Man United, Arsenal and Chelsea. Of course Chelsea were never done humping the ball up for Zola to flick on. Who can forget the number of bullet headers Bergkamp scored?

That time period had full backs like Dennis Irwin and Gary Neville. They eat and shit any full back the Premier League can offer up right now.

 

[LankyHoggie]

The technical level of the PL is light years ahead of how it was 20 years ago. Off the cuff talent is significantly less but technique is at an all time high.

Is it? 30 years ago for sure not sure about 20 years ago, there were some outstanding technical players in the PL 20 years ago.

You had the likes of Nakata and Okocha playing for Big Sam’s Bolton.
Leon Osman and Arteta at Everton.
Tugay and Pedersen at Blackburn.
Robbie Keane and Carrick at Tottenham.
Mendieta was at Boro.

I didn’t even mention the players that played for the best teams.
I’d agree that the first touch improved for the average PL player since then, the ability to find a pass under pressure, due to all the intense pressing that developed in the game since you know who, but there’s more to technique than that.
Almost no one can dribble anymore at pace and deliver an accurate cross on the run like your average PL winger was able to pull off week in week out back then.

 

[Schneckerl]

I'll go by decade and list the most entertaining players at the top level or near the top and we can judge;

2024 - Vinicius, Pedri, Mbappe, KDB, Bellingham, Musiala, Palmer, Yamal, N.Williams, Odegaard

2014 - Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Bale, Ibrahimovic, Iniesta, Ozil, Hazard, Alexis, D.Silva

2004 - Ronaldinho, Zidane, Ronaldo, Henry, Kaka, Adriano, Deco, Riquelme, Totti, Robben, Cristiano

I was running out of players in 2024 but the earlier years I was struggling to keep to 10 names. I could have easily added Yaya, Ribery, Pogba, Di Maria in 2014 and Scholes, Okocha, Aimar, Seedorf, Van der Vaart in 2004.

This seems to be self-inflicted. Salah, Kvaratskhelia, Son to name a few? For 2024 you only have players who are 25 or younger except KDB, while in 2004 you're reaching for players who are nearly retired.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

This seems to be self-inflicted. Salah, Kvaratskhelia, Son to name a few? For 2024 you only have players who are 25 or younger except KDB, while in 2004 you're reaching for players who are nearly retired.

Nah you're reaching with those 3.

I'll go by decade and list the most entertaining players at the top level or near the top and we can judge;

2024 - Vinicius, Pedri, Mbappe, KDB, Bellingham, Musiala, Palmer, Yamal, N.Williams, Odegaard

2014 - Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Bale, Ibrahimovic, Iniesta, Ozil, Hazard, Alexis, D.Silva

2004 - Ronaldinho, Zidane, Ronaldo, Henry, Kaka, Adriano, Deco, Riquelme, Totti, Robben, Cristiano

I was running out of players in 2024 but the earlier years I was struggling to keep to 10 names. I could have easily added Yaya, Ribery, Pogba, Di Maria in 2014 and Scholes, Okocha, Aimar, Seedorf, Van der Vaart in 2004.

I would add Pedri to 2024. He can become like a Iniesta type player. I would also add Arda Guler and maybe even Havertz d, a couple of the little Portguese mids can't remember how to spell their names off the top of my head,

 

[simonhch]

The technical level of the PL is light years ahead of how it was 20 years ago. Off the cuff talent is significantly less but technique is at an all time high.

That’s why I put “to some degree” because it’s been to the detriment of some technical aspects of the game, irrespective of the overall level of base technique being much higher. Specifically technique related to individual expression, such as tricks, have been largely eradicated from the game.

 

[Theonas]

Maybe but short passing is not the only technique. Where are the dribblers like Ryan Giggs? Where’s the Paul Scholes? Denis Bergkamp, Henry, even Matt Le Tissier? What you are talking about are tactics.

In the late 90’s and early noughties the best teams in England were Man United, Arsenal and Chelsea. Of course Chelsea were never done humping the ball up for Zola to flick on. Who can forget the number of bullet headers Bergkamp scored?

That time period had full backs like Dennis Irwin and Gary Neville. They eat and shit any full back the Premier League can offer up right now.

No, short passing is not the only technique. But significantly more players nowadays are comfortable receiving the ball and passing it in all areas of the pitch across all teams. That in itself contributes to a faster paced game actual passing moves as opposed to shifting it out wide and crossing.

The names you mention are all times greats. Paul Scholes is my personal all time favourite United player. But if your earliest memories of the game were today, you'd be talking about De Bruyne, Mané, Hazard or Bale in the same breath. I agree that improvisation is significantly less than it used to be. The reason in my opinion is that coaches have figured out ways to nullify singular threat meaning that you need to be better to make a difference individually but I'd say that's been the case since the beginning of time. A new threat comes along and the inevitable reaction to find ways to stop it, meaning the new threat needs to be even better, faster and more potent. It's a classic action vs reaction push and pull exercise that has always existed.

Your last point about the full backs, I just don't agree with that. They are different types of full backs. They were better at certain things but Neville is certainly not as good technically as Alexander-Arnold for example. Some of the full backs nowadays are so good technically, they can easily move in to the middle of the park, who could do that 20 years ago? When Lahm did it for Bayern, it was seen as revolutionary and he is one of the best in his position.

I am not saying football now is better, I am saying it's different with certain technical aspects much more highlighted and improved and others, nullified. What one finds more entertaining is purely subjective and when it comes to that, we tend to favour what we've seen with more innocent and fresh eyes. Every generation says the same thing, it can't be a coincidence.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Old men yelling at clouds?

 

[Theonas]

That’s why I put “to some degree” because it’s been to the detriment of some technical aspects of the game, irrespective of the overall level of base technique being much higher. Specifically technique related to individual expression, such as tricks, have been largely eradicated from the game.

I agree with that. I wouldn't say eradicated but more that it's harder to make a difference like that. You need to be better and I'd say that's been the case throughout the history of the game. The lower the overall level is, the more you can make a difference individually by pure skill.

 

[Theonas]

Is it? 30 years ago for sure not sure about 20 years ago, there were some outstanding technical players in the PL 20 years ago.

You had the likes of Nakata and Okocha playing for Big Sam’s Bolton.
Leon Osman and Arteta at Everton.
Tugay and Pedersen at Blackburn.
Robbie Keane and Carrick at Tottenham.
Mendieta was at Boro.

I didn’t even mention the players that played for the best teams.
I’d agree that the first touch improved for the average PL player since then, the ability to find a pass under pressure, due to all the intense pressing that developed in the game since you know who, but there’s more to technique than that.
Almost no one can dribble anymore at pace and deliver an accurate cross on the run like your average PL winger was able to pull off week in week out back then.

I remember the names you mentioned and I really can't recall any of them being considered great. When we signed Carrick, I don't remember many thinking that's how we were going to bridge the gap to Chelsea. Arteta was a solid but far from spectacular, same of Osman and Robbie Keane. They were spoken about in similar terms to the likes of Xhaka or Paquetá nowadays but that's just my memory.

Okocha is different, I completely agree that his type is almost inexistent nowadays. That is something I definitely miss in the modern game. My point is for everything that we're missing nowadays, there are many things that are significantly better. The number of fast paced gung ho games in the PL in the past few years has been incredible. The game is as popular as ever with more big games being actually about attacking and being pro active than I ever remember in the '00s where the rule was to keep it tight and wait for the mistake. We gained some things and lost some things so it's just about which side you want to focus on, as it has always been.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

The technical level of the PL is light years ahead of how it was 20 years ago. Off the cuff talent is significantly less but technique is at an all time high.

Meh. First touch kill it, second touch pass is 100% better now. But first touch past a player doesn’t happen anymore. Anytime it does it’s on a highlight reel.

Players are universally better. But risk appetite is so much lower. Perhaps players are ‘better’ as they drill for a system. But I suspect players in the 90’s onwards could have done the same.

 

[Kirk lazarus]

I have a feeling that Science , maths , becoming so (over) prevalent is possibly the changing factor . It's like those films the Martian and moneyball . Two completely different topics . The go to answer is the same . Math/science . Football is now more science than art .

Science wants to make every conceivable individual and team detail measurable . They think that will allow them to answer the question , how do we make the perfect football team ?

Yesterday's real ' football men 'have bowed to the geeks . The behind the scenes nerds are the real football men of today .They provide the information . We've all fell victim to it . We all think we know more than we actually do because of it .

It will eventually go too far , more spontaneity/ freedom will then be seen as the way to overcome it .

 

[bringbackbebe]

It's similar to what's happened in chess. Chess till 1950 used to be somewhat inefficient, and that inefficiency gave rise to interesting plays and combinations that was beautiful to watch as it unfolded. Enter Botvinnik, Petrosian and later Karpov whose sole focus was on minimizing errors and avoiding loss rather than trying to win the game. Then came the computers that basically made chess super mechanical and completely destroyed it. Every opening is now memorized upto the 20th move in schools. Chess of Alekhine, Morphy, Nezhmetdinov and Tal (possibly even Capablanca) is no longer accepted as good play in any chess school because they often relied on spooking opponents to make errors that a computer doesn't care or understand, so now everyone plays the same way.