Fickle United Fans - This place is worse than KopTalk

[True Treble Reds]

Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>I dont think anyone has singled Veron out, not even me</strong><hr></blockquote><a href="http://forum.redcafe.net/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=006809" target="_blank">Oh purrrleeeeze.</a>

 

[True Treble Reds]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>So, your foreign base is revealed.
</strong><hr></blockquote>So, From: Salford in Castellón never tipped you off eh? Thick get

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong>So From: Salford in Castellón never tipped you off eh? Thick get </strong><hr></blockquote>

It was a joke.
Get thick (oh wait, you already are.)

 

[Davo]

Have you noticed that, whenever the Veron debate kicks in, the "He hasn't performed" brigade always put forward the more convincing argument?

 

[AhmedDimwitson]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>Have you noticed that, whenever the Veron debate kicks in, the "He hasn't performed" brigade always put forward the more convincing argument?</strong><hr></blockquote>

He's been alright but when you spend 28 m on one player the average fan suddenly turns into an accountant and then when they make judgement on him they first mention his price tag and then relates that to his performances.

 

[Stanley Road]

Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong><a href="http://forum.redcafe.net/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=006809" target="_blank">Oh purrrleeeeze.</a> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Look mate i've said it 1000000000 times

I hadn't singled him out for the poor LEVERKUSEN result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've said he's been crap all year and that is that

the title of the thread refers to the Blinkered lovers of the guy that repeatedly ignored his shit performances by saying "I think he was bought speshly for the European games"

So it's your own think alikes you can thank for that

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>

Look mate i've said it 1000000000 times

I hadn't singled him out for the poor LEVERKUSEN result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've said he's been crap all year and that is that

the title of the thread refers to the Blinkered lovers of the guy that repeatedly ignored his shit performances by saying "I think he was bought speshly for the European games"

So it's your own think alikes you can thank for that</strong><hr></blockquote>

Admit it, you don't like him because he's an Argie! <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />

 

[sutty]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

Admit it, you don't like him because he's an Argie! <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I think he has gioven salient reasons why he doesnt rate him. Back heeling the ball 5 yards on the half way line isnt worth 28 million quid!

Do you think he has performed like a 28 mill footballer? I don't. Not that it matters to me like. I hope you keep him and don't swap him for Rivaldo

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by sutty:
<strong>

I think he has gioven salient reasons why he doesnt rate him. Back heeling the ball 5 yards on the half way line isnt worth 28 million quid!

Do you think he has performed like a 28 mill footballer? I don't. Not that it matters to me like. I hope you keep him and don't swap him for Rivaldo</strong><hr></blockquote>

At times he has performed yes, and at times he hasn't no. However, I think that any South American footballer needs a year to settle in, especially if coming via Italy.

For me the price tag doesn't wash as ammunition for having a go at him. The fee payed is the market value not the player's true worth in football terms. Is Mendieta shit because he has not performed at Lazio (30 million quid that was)? Or is Redondo shit because he hasn't done well in Italy?

Take a look at Scholes and Giggs for example the other night. They both put in quite bad performances against Leverkusen (they were worse than Verón IMO), but if sold could fetch more than 28 million quid each.

 

[Stanley Road]

I've never rated Mendieta

Where would it have been better for Veron to have come via, is a Sout American gonna find it harder coming here via Italy then lets say Iceland?

 

[WeasteDevil]

You know that he has played football in Italy for most of his professional career, and that football in Italy is totally different to football at home. It takes time to adjust! Why is he so bad then Stan, you tell me?

 

[Stanley Road]

So the fact that he's south american has nothing to do with your ludicrous statement

It's just that he's played in Italy that he's crap

Perhaps thats why Zola was crap when he came to England and Gullit too

And other players that did really well in England after spells in Italy

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>So the fact that he's south american has nothing to do with your ludicrous statement

It's just that he's played in Italy that he's crap

Perhaps thats why Zola was crap when he came to England and Gullit too

And other players that did really well in England after spells in Italy</strong><hr></blockquote>

What are you on exactly? It has to do with being South American and coming to us via a long spell in Italy! An those two players you mentioned didn't exactly play in the same role as JSV do they?

 

[Stanley Road]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

What are you on exactly? It has to do with being South American and coming to us via a long spell in Italy! An those two players you mentioned didn't exactly play in the same role as JSV do they?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You said( god this is getting tiring )"I think that any South American footballer needs a year to settle in, especially if coming via Italy."

So it's a combination of both, soperhaps if he came via somewhere else it wouldn't be so difficult, bollox i say

Plenty of time to settle in the Italian game and not as good as their other exports

As for the position they played in, well that is neither here nor there

Otherwise you argument should have been:

I think that any South American footballer needs a year to settle in, especially if coming via Italy, plays a central midfield role, is bald, is called juan, has a goatie and is crap."

 

[WeasteDevil]

Stan, you keep telling us that he is crap but never provide any evidence to back up your silly little hypothesis!

Subjective argument is all you can provide!

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

At times he has performed yes, and at times he hasn't no. However, I think that any South American footballer needs a year to settle in, especially if coming via Italy.

For me the price tag doesn't wash as ammunition for having a go at him. The fee payed is the market value not the player's true worth in football terms. Is Mendieta shit because he has not performed at Lazio (30 million quid that was)? Or is Redondo shit because he hasn't done well in Italy?

Take a look at Scholes and Giggs for example the other night. They both put in quite bad performances against Leverkusen (they were worse than Verón IMO), but if sold could fetch more than 28 million quid each.</strong><hr></blockquote>


The price tag creates expectation..

Take it away and it matters little tho..

You've got a world class player who is rarely looking world class..

Do you see the problem?

 

[WeasteDevil]

There is obviously a problem, but problems can be solved and sometimes require a little bit of patience.

 

[Stanley Road]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>Stan, you keep telling us that he is crap but never provide any evidence to back up your silly little hypothesis!

Subjective argument is all you can provide!</strong><hr></blockquote>


Bollox

I've given you all you need to know and infact it is you that has failed to mention anything good, of course i forgot the two magnificent games he had

What evidence would you like

Why dont you talk to Rams about this, he told me an amusing story about how the WHOLE ground groaned in unison every time he touhed the ball

Kind of scuppers your theory about everyone being behind him n'all

Do you think he's been the best player there this season, i bet you do cos you have seen magical performances from the player week in week out

I think there has been about 2 United games that weren't show live here all season, if they are the two that he performed in then send us a tape or summink.

Whats he good at Weaste adn where has that been on display this season?

C'mon weaste tell me bout his magnificent performances please do

 

[WeasteDevil]

After you Stan, you know that you cant answer a question with a question!

 

[Stanley Road]

I've answered your question 100 times in this thread

haven't you read any of it?

( Weaste is biding for time while he tries to recollect a great JSV 'Nearly great' pass )

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>I've answered your question 100 times in this thread</strong><hr></blockquote>

No you haven't, you've just rambled on with your own subjective arguments!

 

[Stanley Road]

O.K.

You cant remember more then 2 decent performances, well done Weaste you're good, you win

Verons great, hope he plays for England during the world cup

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

No you haven't, you've just rambled on with your own subjective arguments!</strong><hr></blockquote>
M: An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.

O: No it isn't!

M: Yes it is! 'tisn't just contradiction.

O: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!

M: Yes but it isn't just saying 'no it isn't'.

O: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

O: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

O: Yes it is!

M: No it ISN'T! Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.

O: It is NOT!

M: It is!

O: Not at all!

M: It is!

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>There is obviously a problem, but problems can be solved and sometimes require a little bit of patience.</strong><hr></blockquote>

How much patience can you give him?

You won the league last season at a cantor..

Your attack is now better then it was..

Admittedly your defense isn't....

But your midfield is now less consistent..

And the reason why is Argentinian..

 

[WeasteDevil]

The reason Davo is team wide inconsistency this season.

 

[AhmedDimwitson]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


The price tag creates expectation..
?</strong><hr></blockquote>

As you managed to say here it is the price tag that creates the expectation for some fans. He is supposed to be a Pele in every game in order for them to be satisfied.

 

[Stanley Road]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>The reason Davo is team wide inconsistency this season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh i dunno bout that

We've been consistantly shaky at the back

We've consistantly scored goals

Veron has been consistantly under performing

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>The reason Davo is team wide inconsistency this season.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Which he has been a part of and hasn't helped..

I don't blame you for sticking up for your player...I'd do the same..

But you've got to acknowledge that he's a been poor this season...to argue otherwise just seems daft..

We all know how good he can be, but he hasn't done it often enough..

This isn't a kneejerk reaction from one game, which is no doubt why he's getting more abuse than the likes of Giggs who was also poor on Weds

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>

How much patience can you give him?

You won the league last season at a cantor..

Your attack is now better then it was..

Admittedly your defense isn't....

But your midfield is now less consistent..

And the reason why is Argentinian..</strong><hr></blockquote>
If we still had Stam, and hadn't signed Veron, nor sold Cole, but had signed Ruud, then we'd have won the league by 15points. And gone out in the quarters again. I'd rather the former to be honest, because we probably won't get through to the final now (but I hope we do), but thats not due to Seba but, quite surprisingly, due to our squad not having enough depth of quality. We only have one central defender left now, and we had only one winger left in the first leg. But football is not entirely predictable, nor under the complete control of the manager.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>But you've got to acknowledge that he's a been poor this season...to argue otherwise just seems daft..</strong><hr></blockquote>

I've already acknowledged that he is having problems, but even you yourself admit that he is world class - something that the likes of Stan will not do and just end up calling him shit! That is pointless.

It's SAF's and JSV's job to find the solution and I am sure that they will. I think that we will see a very different Verón playing for United next season.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>O.K.

You cant remember more then 2 decent performances, well done Weaste you're good, you win

Verons great, hope he plays for England during the world cup</strong><hr></blockquote>

Seba's top peformances:


Everton (home) MOM
Olympiakos (away) MOM
Liverpool (Home)
Nantes (home) MOM
Derby (away) MOM
Depor (home) MOM


thats 6 top notch performances, however i agree he's been disappointing by HIS standards but i don't think he's been as bad as you or any ABU believe...

BTW Platini said he would struggle in the English game, he reckons that he's much tougher for playmakers to settle than fowards.. so its unfair to say that Verons not put the effort in......

 

[AhmedDimwitson]

I find it pathetic that people blame JSV for the the results not being as good as in previous years. The midfield still contains the same players and we have added one hugely talented Argentinian. Now it would be fair to assume that if the old formation would have been the best one SAF would have played it AS he still had the old material available. But he has opted to play JSV because he obviously must add more than his competitors, be it because of a dip in form for the concerned players or new position or whatever. Main point is that he would have had every opportunity to play the old midfield but has opted not to.

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by AhmedDimwitson:
<strong>

As you managed to say here it is the price tag that creates the expectation for some fans. He is supposed to be a Pele in every game in order for them to be satisfied.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Its also the fact that he's a proven world class player..

That creates expectation as well..

Expectation that he has failed to live up to

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

I've already acknowledged that he is having problems, but even you yourself admit that he is world class - something that the likes of Stan will not do and just end up calling him shit! That is pointless.

It's SAF's and JSV's job to find the solution and I am sure that they will. I think that we will see a very different Verón playing for United next season.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Maybe...but then maybe he'll be worse?

I know he's World class cos I;ve seen him play before he joined you...

I wouldn't know it from the games I've seen this season..

 

[sutty]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

Seba's top peformances:


Everton (home) MOM
Olympiakos (away) MOM
Liverpool (Home)
Nantes (home) MOM
Derby (away) MOM
Depor (home) MOM


thats 6 top notch performances, however i agree he's been disappointing by HIS standards but i don't think he's been as bad as you or any ABU believe...

BTW Platini said he would struggle in the English game, he reckons that he's much tougher for playmakers to settle than fowards.. so its unfair to say that Verons not put the effort in......</strong><hr></blockquote>


If one of "Seba's" top performances was against us then it doesnt say much for the quality of his other "top performances".

Here's my opinion...

Depor (Home)

That's it.

 

[AhmedDimwitson]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


Its also the fact that he's a proven world class player..

That creates expectation as well..

Expectation that he has failed to live up to</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree that he hasn't been world class yet, think it will take some time to get adapted. This is not like buying a P III processor and putting it into a computer and the performance will instantly improve. These are humans that are being bought and sold and consqeuently they will need time to settle in order to get maximun effect, the human factor. For Zidane at Real it took a couple of months, for JSV and his team mates to get used to him it seems to take over a season.

 

[WeasteDevil]

This thread wouldn't even exist if his shot on Tuesday hadn't been so excellently saved. We would have won 3-1 and all of the knockers would not have come out with their shite!

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by sutty:
<strong>


If one of "Seba's" top performances was against us then it doesnt say much for the quality of his other "top performances".

Here's my opinion...

Depor (Home)

That's it.</strong><hr></blockquote>


great. iam debating with an ABU

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by AhmedDimwitson:
<strong>

I agree that he hasn't been world class yet, think it will take some time to get adapted. This are not like buying a P III processor and putting it into a computer and the performance will instantly improve. These are humans that are being bought and sold and consqeuently they will need time to settle in order to get maximun effect, the human factor. For Zidane at Real it took a couple of months, for JSV and his team mates to get used to him it seems to take over a season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You're assuming he will revert to type..

Who says he will?

We can only go on what he's done?

Which isn't a lot...

 

[passiveman]

Originally posted by AhmedDimwitson:
<strong>

I agree that he hasn't been world class yet, think it will take some time to get adapted. This is not like buying a P III processor and putting it into a computer and the performance will instantly improve. These are humans that are being bought and sold and consqeuently they will need time to settle in order to get maximun effect, the human factor. For Zidane at Real it took a couple of months, for JSV and his team mates to get used to him it seems to take over a season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Techy analogies are suspect - in that they point toward the user having no life.