FC Bayern 17/18 discussion

That is really nice from ultras. I genuinely believe football has the power to reach the masses and make them stand up and notice

And it is nice that fans of one of the largest clubs are taking a stance
 
Question for my fellow Bayern supporters: should I get Tolisso for my FF team? :D
I'm on the fence on this. His points/monies ratio is okay, but he's far from a regular starter, so it still could be a waste of money.
 
I'd like to start some discussion on the impending huge decision on who will become our new coach.

First off, let's acknowledge what a good decision it was to part with Ancelotti when we did, and what an inspired solution it was to persuade Heynckes to return for the season.
I was wishing for a Tuchel appointment at the time, and the Heynckes return came completely out of the blue. As I'm still favouring Tuchel, I'm wondering whether this meant a decision against Tuchel, who was available after all? Rummenigge said it wasn't, we'll see.

In any case, Jupp solved the main problems surrounding Ancelotti's exit almost magically, like a deus ex machina:
- he bought the board time for a long term solution in summer, with a new coach not having to slot in midseason under immediate pressure, not having to serve as a fireman, and having the benefit of a full preparation (which is great for any, and potentially youngish, new coaches coming in)
- his authority and his being synonymous with out last great success served to quash the growing dissatisfaction and disunity within the dressing room and also in public - noone can dare to moan about Jupp without looking bad, and it was instant good press
- his rapport with players is immense, both with the Germans, the old guard, as well as the Spanish-speaking faction. Think how he was Vidal's mentor at Leverkusen, how he brought the midfielder Martinez back to action, Ribéry, etc.
- on top of that, results have been great, and a sense of determination is back to our football (even if we still don't look very stable)

Now, what about the future?
After it was initially clearly communicated Heynckes would only serve until the end of the season, Hoeneß has since been driving a public campaign about how he wants to try to persuade his buddy to stay for another season. He's done so in his inimitably brash way that had to come to anyone's attention, and the media have not ceased to ask Jupp about it since. However, Jupp is visibly annoyed by this, has strongly stated that there's no way this will happen, so it seems an odd miscalculation by Hoeneß to insist on this the way he did.
One interpretation of Hoeneß's media push might be that he favours Nagelsmann, who according to reports would only be available with Hopp's (another Hoeneß buddy) blessing in 2019, to come then after another year of Jupp. Maybe Tuchel is rather favoured by Rummenigge..

In any case, the board has stated publicly that it will be a "German" coach at Bayern in 2018/19, which rules out otherwise perfectly reasonable candidates like Allegri or Sarri, who I think should absolutely be considered (provided Allegri became available).
I wonder whether it also rules out Hasenhüttl lol, or whether they were thinking about .. err.. GREATER Germany :nervous:
Hasenhüttl should definitively be one of the main candidates to take over.

So who are the top candidates then?

Tuchel - available, has proven he can have a team perform both attractively, successfully AND consistently in the league (best 2nd place team ever in 2015/16). Has proven he can develop youngsters, has won a cup, while his limited CL experience at least includes winning the group ahead of later winners Real. He's more or less a Bavarian, too. As for negatives, his falling outs with both the Mainz and BVB boards are an alarm signal, one that I am willing to ignore however. I'm all for him, he will very likely provide good football and entertainment, and quite possibly success too - if it doesn't work we can always fire him and get Nagelsmann who will be like 33 years old then.

Nagelsmann - his job at Hoffenheim can only be described as something like miracle work. Led a poor team out of the lower table areas into CL quali, kept it in the uppper ranks despite the club disgustingly selling every player with quality that is valuable. I would be absolutely ok with us just giving him a shot, even if I have a feeling he's not quite experienced yet to mentally survive a potential bad spell with us and I'd hate to have him burned out too soon, as he's so young. So while I would welcome him, I'd say get him later.

Hasenhüttl - has proven he can get a team to be competitive and successful, even with little resources at Ingolstadt, and within the confines of Leipzig's U23 strategy. His teams are no pushovers, they are nasty oppponents, they are consistent, and I like his authority. He's basically the Austrian Simeone with a little less nasty antagonism. I would take him no questions asked.

Other candidates:

Jogi Löw - there's been rumours now and the. He might quit after another World Cup win, etc. Of course, Bayern would need to make a decision on who's coming way before we know who wins the World Cup. If Hoeneß can't persuade Jupp..
Basically, I dislike him and don't rate him, but have stopped practising this persuasion after the World Cup win, an achievement which can't be denied, and the frankly fantastic stuff that the German NT played during the Euros, and the unbelievable move that was winning the Confed Cup with a U-21 C-team.
I have made my peace with him as NT coach, but I'm still strongly against him as Bayern coach - his club record is laughable and abysmal.
My feeling anyway is he'll try to stay NT coach, which is the best job anyone can dream of, as long as possible.

KLOPPO - while he's of course an obnoxious Dampfplauderer, I would take him instantly, maybe even as no1 choice over Tuchel. Undeniably a force as a coach. Would only become an option if the Liverpool 'project' comprehensively breaks down until the summer, which I don't see happening.

Favre - should not be ignored, old friend of Rummenigge.
Kovac - doing a great job at Franfurt, also part of the Bayern family.

So yeah, we have a number of good options. My only hope is that our board doesn't grant Mats fecking Hummels the power to talk them out of appointing Tuchel.
Thoughts?
 
I'd like to start some discussion on the impending huge decision on who will become our new coach.

First off, let's acknowledge what a good decision it was to part with Ancelotti when we did, and what an inspired solution it was to persuade Heynckes to return for the season.
I was wishing for a Tuchel appointment at the time, and the Heynckes return came completely out of the blue. As I'm still favouring Tuchel, I'm wondering whether this meant a decision against Tuchel, who was available after all? Rummenigge said it wasn't, we'll see.

In any case, Jupp solved the main problems surrounding Ancelotti's exit almost magically, like a deus ex machina:
- he bought the board time for a long term solution in summer, with a new coach not having to slot in midseason under immediate pressure, not having to serve as a fireman, and having the benefit of a full preparation (which is great for any, and potentially youngish, new coaches coming in)
- his authority and his being synonymous with out last great success served to quash the growing dissatisfaction and disunity within the dressing room and also in public - noone can dare to moan about Jupp without looking bad, and it was instant good press
- his rapport with players is immense, both with the Germans, the old guard, as well as the Spanish-speaking faction. Think how he was Vidal's mentor at Leverkusen, how he brought the midfielder Martinez back to action, Ribéry, etc.
- on top of that, results have been great, and a sense of determination is back to our football (even if we still don't look very stable)

Now, what about the future?
After it was initially clearly communicated Heynckes would only serve until the end of the season, Hoeneß has since been driving a public campaign about how he wants to try to persuade his buddy to stay for another season. He's done so in his inimitably brash way that had to come to anyone's attention, and the media have not ceased to ask Jupp about it since. However, Jupp is visibly annoyed by this, has strongly stated that there's no way this will happen, so it seems an odd miscalculation by Hoeneß to insist on this the way he did.
One interpretation of Hoeneß's media push might be that he favours Nagelsmann, who according to reports would only be available with Hopp's (another Hoeneß buddy) blessing in 2019, to come then after another year of Jupp. Maybe Tuchel is rather favoured by Rummenigge..

In any case, the board has stated publicly that it will be a "German" coach at Bayern in 2018/19, which rules out otherwise perfectly reasonable candidates like Allegri or Sarri, who I think should absolutely be considered (provided Allegri became available).
I wonder whether it also rules out Hasenhüttl lol, or whether they were thinking about .. err.. GREATER Germany :nervous:
Hasenhüttl should definitively be one of the main candidates to take over.

So who are the top candidates then?

Tuchel - available, has proven he can have a team perform both attractively, successfully AND consistently in the league (best 2nd place team ever in 2015/16). Has proven he can develop youngsters, has won a cup, while his limited CL experience at least includes winning the group ahead of later winners Real. He's more or less a Bavarian, too. As for negatives, his falling outs with both the Mainz and BVB boards are an alarm signal, one that I am willing to ignore however. I'm all for him, he will very likely provide good football and entertainment, and quite possibly success too - if it doesn't work we can always fire him and get Nagelsmann who will be like 33 years old then.

Nagelsmann - his job at Hoffenheim can only be described as something like miracle work. Led a poor team out of the lower table areas into CL quali, kept it in the uppper ranks despite the club disgustingly selling every player with quality that is valuable. I would be absolutely ok with us just giving him a shot, even if I have a feeling he's not quite experienced yet to mentally survive a potential bad spell with us and I'd hate to have him burned out too soon, as he's so young. So while I would welcome him, I'd say get him later.

Hasenhüttl - has proven he can get a team to be competitive and successful, even with little resources at Ingolstadt, and within the confines of Leipzig's U23 strategy. His teams are no pushovers, they are nasty oppponents, they are consistent, and I like his authority. He's basically the Austrian Simeone with a little less nasty antagonism. I would take him no questions asked.

Other candidates:

Jogi Löw - there's been rumours now and the. He might quit after another World Cup win, etc. Of course, Bayern would need to make a decision on who's coming way before we know who wins the World Cup. If Hoeneß can't persuade Jupp..
Basically, I dislike him and don't rate him, but have stopped practising this persuasion after the World Cup win, an achievement which can't be denied, and the frankly fantastic stuff that the German NT played during the Euros, and the unbelievable move that was winning the Confed Cup with a U-21 C-team.
I have made my peace with him as NT coach, but I'm still strongly against him as Bayern coach - his club record is laughable and abysmal.
My feeling anyway is he'll try to stay NT coach, which is the best job anyone can dream of, as long as possible.

KLOPPO - while he's of course an obnoxious Dampfplauderer, I would take him instantly, maybe even as no1 choice over Tuchel. Undeniably a force as a coach. Would only become an option if the Liverpool 'project' comprehensively breaks down until the summer, which I don't see happening.

Favre - should not be ignored, old friend of Rummenigge.
Kovac - doing a great job at Franfurt, also part of the Bayern family.

So yeah, we have a number of good options. My only hope is that our board doesn't grant Mats fecking Hummels the power to talk them out of appointing Tuchel.
Thoughts?
Would you guys be interested in Antonio Conte?I mean,he's won 4 league titles and he's a champion in 2 different leagues.In terms of pedigree and success,he's way ahead of Tuchel...But maybe Bayern won't appreciate his style of play...
 
I'd like to start some discussion on the impending huge decision on who will become our new coach.........
Thoughts?

First off, I'd like to say that Jupp is a God in my view, better than Pep and Mourinho and get's very little acclaim, though obviously because he wasn't able to continue his treble winning team. Sir Alex would be the only manager recently that I would rate very clearly above Jupp. I got my first real exposure to him, as I started watching football in the mid 90's and therefore didn't see his Bayern team of before that, when he took over at Leverkusen for two seasons and loved watching them (ofcourse he had that small stint as caretaker after Klinsmann was sacked). Was delighted when he took over at Bayern following Van Gaal. A manager of true tactical versatility who was able to beat teams by both dominating possession and counter-attacking, depending on the opponent. That was something Pep could not replicate and what cost him in Europe.

But alas, he'l be unlikely to stay beyond this season so the discussion for his successor has popped up:

Tuchel: One thing you always have to consider when choosing a Bayern coach is how he'l interact with the power players at the club. That has proven a problem with previous managers with ego's such as Van Gaal and Pep and therefore it would definitely be an issue with someone like Tuchel, given how he so acrimoniously left Dortmund. No doubting his managerial quality, fantastic young manager with the blend of being tactically smart, offensive and able to bring in younger players but you cannot ignore the possible issue of him having a falling out with the upper management.

Nagelsmann: A bit turned off with how this season has gone for them, especially his teams performances in Europe. Ofcourse his team was fantastic last season but this season they have been very inconsistent, dropping points from winning positions regularly and not being as solid as they were before (ofcourse losing Sule has them in that respect). I would still say he's unproven for a club of the stature and expectations of Bayern and you can just see Uli and KHR eating him alive if he starts to lose form during a season. Still certainly one for the future.

Hassenhuttl: Like Nagelsmann, his team haven't performed to the standards of last season and, again like Hoffenheim, have been very inconsistent in the league and poor in Europe.

Low: Similar to what Lell said, though he's done very well to win the WC and Confed Cup, both with understrength squads, I still just don't rate him very highly. Just a gut feeling because I've seen him make some very naive decisions in key matches that has put me off (eg: the line-up he played against Italy in Euro' 12 semi final and starting to play 3 at the back lately). I wouldn't hate it if he becomes the Bayern manager, but certainly wouldn't be clamoring for it either.

Klopp: I think there will be a cold day in hell before Klopp decides to become the Bayern manager. If the day does ever come that Satan is wearing a winter coat, then I'l certainly be wanting Klopp to become the manager. Would be interesting to see how he does with clearly the strongest squad in the league when he's had to try and fight with lesser quality ones (and generally done well).

Favre: I like Favre, he has a bit of Jupp-lite feel to how he runs the team. Loved his Gladbach team that came 4th in 2011-12 with Reus, Hermann, Hanke, Arango in attack; they too were able to play both possession football against weaker teams and kill stronger teams on the counter. Haven't seen Nice play so can't say about how he's set them up there but his tactics at Gladbach were certainly praiseworthy.

If you're looking at the most capable manager out of the list then Klopp is certainly on top, in terms of his tactics but also that he's been able to produce the good at a big club, but he seems very unrealistic at the moment. Next would be Tuchel if you want to look at the best manager but he obviously lacks the personality to work with bigger figures at the club.

When considering the combination of being realistic, tactically strong and best suited for Bayern, it would have be Favre. He's done very well in recent years and hasn't really failed at any of the clubs he's been at recently (took Hertha to 4th, Gladbach to consistently playing in Europe and now also Nice to Europe). It will be a big jump for him as he hasn't managed a team of Bayern's caliber (or even close to it) yet.

Ofcourse if you want to have everything then just convince Jupp to stay on :D
 
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Would you guys be interested in Antonio Conte?I mean,he's won 4 league titles and he's a champion in 2 different leagues.In terms of pedigree and success,he's way ahead of Tuchel...But maybe Bayern won't appreciate his style of play...
They (Rummenigge or Hoeneß, can’t recall) mentioned that it will be a German coach. The obvious ones being Tuchel and Nagelsmann.
 
You are basing this conviction on? Press reports? Gut feeling? Fredi Bobic's ITK?

Process of elimination.

Nagelsmann, Kovac - don't have a big enough pedigree yet
Hasenhüttl - Not a German
Löw (the only thinkable alternative) - long lasting DFB contract
Klopp - is happy at Liverpool
 
Process of elimination.

Nagelsmann, Kovac - don't have a big enough pedigree yet
Hasenhüttl - Not a German
Löw (the only thinkable alternative) - long lasting DFB contract
Klopp - is happy at Liverpool
Makes sense. However, if I understand Rummenigge's announcement of a 'German' coach coming in as an implicit acknowlegdement it's not going to be Hasenhüttl, I certainly would hope they seriously considered Hasenhüttl before ruling him out, as he seems to me a much more logical candidate than Nagelsmann at this point.
And if it indeed Tuchel is the clear favourite, why the whole "we are trying to convince Jupp and have no plan B" stuff? If the club is seriously negotiating with Tuchel, this has to be somewhat disrespectful, or some sort of power play. I don't get it.

Would you guys be interested in Antonio Conte?I mean,he's won 4 league titles and he's a champion in 2 different leagues.In terms of pedigree and success,he's way ahead of Tuchel...But maybe Bayern won't appreciate his style of play...

Strictly based on merit and quality, Conte should be a top candidate for any big club job. He's a proven top coach.

However, for the Bayern job this summer, I dont have the feeling he'd be the perfect fit, and neither do I have the feeling he would be willing to come to Bundesliga at this point, and all it entails (learning some German, especially). I sense he's more leaning towards a return to Italy, as NT coach or maybe even Milan. And I'm not sure how his approach would fit with our current squad and style, he seems like someone with strong convictions.
 
Rummenigge's claim about the German coach I would take as fluently German speaking coach. Communication is very important. I doubt he excluded Hasenhüttl with that phrase especially as Hasenhüttl has a Bayern past and works in Germany since 1998.

If there is any doubts about Tuchel - and it seems there happened more at Dortmund than all of us know - I do not want him as Bayern coach. That will not work. Not with the media, not with the team and with the bosses. No matter what a good tactican he is. I have been in the Tuchel camp for a long time - wanted him as a successor for Guardiola - but especially now with Heynckes you remark how important a coach is that has the right team handling.
 
Makes sense. However, if I understand Rummenigge's announcement of a 'German' coach coming in as an implicit acknowlegdement it's not going to be Hasenhüttl, I certainly would hope they seriously considered Hasenhüttl before ruling him out, as he seems to me a much more logical candidate than Nagelsmann at this point.
And if it indeed Tuchel is the clear favourite, why the whole "we are trying to convince Jupp and have no plan B" stuff? If the club is seriously negotiating with Tuchel, this has to be somewhat disrespectful, or some sort of power play. I don't get it.



Strictly based on merit and quality, Conte should be a top candidate for any big club job. He's a proven top coach.

However, for the Bayern job this summer, I dont have the feeling he'd be the perfect fit, and neither do I have the feeling he would be willing to come to Bundesliga at this point, and all it entails (learning some German, especially). I sense he's more leaning towards a return to Italy, as NT coach or maybe even Milan. And I'm not sure how his approach would fit with our current squad and style, he seems like someone with strong convictions.
It's a thankless job really,I mean,winning the bundesliga at Bayern is hardly an achievement,so it's all about the CL.I frankly think that the Bayern job may not interest a lot of top managers because of the lack of competition in the bundesliga....Even PSG lost the title last season,Juventus could finish 2nd this season but its same old,same old again in Germany....
 
It's a thankless job really,I mean,winning the bundesliga at Bayern is hardly an achievement,so it's all about the CL.I frankly think that the Bayern job may not interest a lot of top managers because of the lack of competition in the bundesliga....Even PSG lost the title last season,Juventus could finish 2nd this season but its same old,same old again in Germany....
That's because we tend to fire managers who look like they won't manage to win the league, so it's a bit of an odd way to argue
 
That's because we tend to fire managers who look like they won't manage to win the league, so it's a bit of an odd way to argue
Ancelotti won the league comfortably last season,but I think the board were still not really satisfied cause you didn't do well in Europe.I think that even Guardiolas tenure is considered to be a "moderate success" cause he didn't reach a CL final.My point though was that Bayerns hegemony over the bundesliga doesn't make it a very attractive proposition for the top top managers in the world.The bundesliga is a 1 horse race,at least for the title....
 
Honestly, can see them winning another treble.

As good as Heynkes is, I don't think he can make Bayern win the UCL this season. Its an ageing squad with some of the younger players (Coman, Tolisso) not good enough at the moment to cover for them. Muller really needs to start stepping up as well.
 
Would not like their chances against Barca, City or even PSG.

They already beat PSG :lol: (Although PSG created enough chances to score)

City aren't winning anything if Aguero starts and Sane isn't back. Their attack is paperweight.

As good as Heynkes is, I don't think he can make Bayern win the UCL this season. Its an ageing squad with some of the younger players (Coman, Tolisso) not good enough at the moment to cover for them. Muller really needs to start stepping up as well.

Muller has been off since Pep's 2nd/3rd season which is why he was benched. He cost you guys a final in 14/15.
 
Ancelotti won the league comfortably last season,but I think the board were still not really satisfied cause you didn't do well in Europe.I think that even Guardiolas tenure is considered to be a "moderate success" cause he didn't reach a CL final.My point though was that Bayerns hegemony over the bundesliga doesn't make it a very attractive proposition for the top top managers in the world.The bundesliga is a 1 horse race,at least for the title....
Our last 3 managers being Heynckes, Pep, and Ancelotti, I think you would conclude that top managers do actually take on the Bayern job.
Incidentally, that's the exact timespan in which we've dominated the league to make it a "one horse race", too, so logic would suggest that we've been winning the league over and over because of the way we were managed.
And then the example of Ancelottis second season suggests the league is not automatic if you're not doing a good job.

As always, arguments as yours are as paradoxical and counterfactual as they are ineradicable.
 
I've completely forgot about Muller. Rooney-esque decline incoming ?
 
I've completely forgot about Muller. Rooney-esque decline incoming ?
He is on a goal or assist every 100 minutes in the league. That‘s probably better than for example Griezmann. I’m not sure how you can compare that to a „Rooney-esque decline“.
 
He is on a goal or assist every 100 minutes in the league. That‘s probably better than for example Griezmann. I’m not sure how you can compare that to a „Rooney-esque decline“.
People who watch Bayern every after full moon and the occasional international match have unanimously reached the conclusion that Müller is utter crap and can't hit a barndoor.
 
btw, did anyone complain about abysmal pitch conditions recently?

eqv0Shx.jpg




Bayern-Schalke 1970
 
In fact, he's just returning to his former self. Scored a typical Müller goal against Schalke in the first half :drool:
He’s back to form for quite a while now. The Müller criticism is about two years late.
 
He’s back to form for quite a while now. The Müller criticism is about two years late.
His play has been good for quite some time, but he's quite recently started scoring again.
 
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Frustrating performance by our youngsters in the UEFA Youth league last 16 vs Real Madrid.

2:3 right now while Real have been down t 10 men for a while. We came back two times, and then let Real take the lead again while playing 11vs 10.
Tactically stupid, naive and immature stuff.
Dorsch is great, Jeong looks interesting though nothing will become out of him, and I am not at all sold on Wintzheimer, and also not on Früchtl.
Köhn has been absolutely terrible.
 
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After Paris and Barcelona, Qatar now finances Bayern :devil:

Bayern a newly bought sugar daddy club :lol:

Bayern-and-Qatar.jpg


FC Bayern Munich today announced that they signed a five-year sponsorship deal with Qatar Airways. Qatar Airways replaces long-term airline sponsor Lufthansa, who had been Bayern sponsor for 16 years.
 
After Paris and Barcelona, Qatar now finances Bayern :devil:

Bayern a newly bought sugar daddy club :lol:



FC Bayern Munich today announced that they signed a five-year sponsorship deal with Qatar Airways. Qatar Airways replaces long-term airline sponsor Lufthansa, who had been Bayern sponsor for 16 years.


An already extremely likeable club got that little more likeable with this news.
I guess that is allright though since Beckenbauer didn't notice any slaves in chains in Qatar and Rummenigge never complained about his Rolex watches he received as a present in Qatar either (which he happened to "forget" to declare to German customs).