Germany was unified in 1990 (the year Kroos was born). So how old has a player to be, to be called East-German? Maybe in his early 40`s.
FC Bayern 17/18 discussion
- Thread starter schwalbe
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Real bllindly throws money on the biggest names whereas Bayern choose to spend much much less and buy players in a much more thoughtfull way. If you compare Bayern and Real's successes in the last 10 years and compare the way they spend I think Bayern is a much better run club than Real.
On the other side I can name players like Gotze, Lewandowski, Hummels, Sule, Goretzka (probably)... And a lot who didn't make it at Bayern and then left for Schalke, Dortmund, Wolfsburg etc.
he can be as young as kroos and ballack, who are from eastern part of germany.
Its far more easier to be well run when you can have all the best players from your league. Whereas Real and Other top clubs have to fight for top players. Given those struggles and recent success, I would say Bayern does not come close to how well Real is run albeit its run by 'buying superstar' strategy.
"Historically", until the mid-2000's, they have been fairly overrepresented. Everything else you say is utter, ridicoulus bullshit.
This surely has to be trolling, right? Right?!
So, you are saying it only after 2000s that east germans are underrepresented.
Would love to hear few east german players in last 5 years from Germany national team or Bayern.
Excluding Berlin "east Germany" only contains 11m out of 80m people who live in Germany if we combine this knowledge with the fact that east German clubs haven't been doing well for decades (the hotbeds for German football lie in the west (Ruhr Area) and south (Munich/Stuttgart) it's perfectly logical and nothing sinister that there aren't too many elite footballers from eastern Germany. The notion that Bayern would pay Kroos less because he was born in the wrong part of the country is ridiculous though.
The east also has a way lower percentage of young people. It’s quite simple really. Probably just another idiot feeling he’s been screwed by „the west“.
As much as I know, Bayern currently just has Starke. In the past Jeremies, Jancker and Ballack.
But tell me how many good Bundesliga players come from East Germany. Maybe you should look at RB Leipzig, the only East German club, and ask yourself how many East Germans play there...
i did not say Kroos was paid less beacuse he was east german, but i had this notion that east german are sometimes considered expendables and hence why Bayern did not push so hard to offer him extension, and things could have been slightly different had he been from west germany. That was the notion I had, not something i had given genuine thoughts over or firmly believed but just some notion I picked up somehow and found it generally true from my perspective.
But, looks like it was wrong and sincere thanks for your clarification that its only logical that there is less east germans in Germany given there is very less east germans (11/80m) and that football "hubs" Ruhr/munich/stuttgart all are in west.
Blackwidow's comments that there are less east germans in whole of Bundesliga is again another proof that what ever i was saying earlier was wrong.
My apologies about my posts earlier, could have done little more homework before posting those.
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More clubs is a disadvantage? The biggest advantage is having as many CL clubs as possible. You get no points for qualifying for EL group or advancing out of it. If you finish 3rd or 4th in the group you're out.
CL qualifications gives you 2 free wins. Advancing from group gives you 2.5 free wins and finishing 3rd gives you chance at more points so it's definitely an advantage to have more teams and a big reason why it's hard to get to the top 4-5 in the coefficient.
More clubs means points are divided throughout more clubs. That’s the reason it’s so easy for smaller nations to accumulate more points with mediocre performances.
Really? 3 CL vs 1 over the last 9 years. The only reason Bayern look better run based on their success(and that's more than debatable) is because they didn't have to compete domestically against Messi's Barcelona
More teams means more free points like I explained. Austria have 4 teams in Europe, or had. 1 in CL, 3 in EL. Germany have the same number of spots for the CL alone or guaranteed 6 points, possible 8 to Austria's 2. That's an advantage.
Not to mention it's easier for German teams to get results than Austrian or Cyprian clubs given their bigger size, more money and better players. More advantage.
There's no advantage in less spots, just a mere calculation to give them a chance of leveling up.
I absolutely agree. And I support Bayern and despise Real.
That’s half a point difference in the end. Yes, more members means more chances, but it also means a bad year gets even worse. As we can witness now.
Bayern spends very little money compared to Madrid though. They won more CL titles ofcourse, but that bound to happen if you break the bank every transfer window.
Real can have all players including those from other Spanish clubs except maybe Barca. They howevero ly go for the biggest names in football instead. Bayern prefers to invest reasonable amounts of money in talented German players and complement that with a few talented foreigners. They cant compete for the international superstars with financial powerhouses like Real, Psg, City or United because they don’t want to spend a silly amount of money. I cant really fault them for that. Especially since they’ve been quite a dominant force in Europe that way.
That’s why pound for pound I think Bayern is the best run club. Imagine if Real actually put thought into the gazillions they spend instead of just big names and marketing. No one could compete with em then. Ofcourse they’re wildly succesfull as is, but that’s bound to happen when every other player you buy sets some sort of transfer record.
I keep reading that, but afaik the facts say otherwise. Real have not made a major signing since 2014, and most current players came at either reasonable prices (25-35m), as bargain buys, or as Castilla players. I'm sure there are several teams who have outspent them in the recent past.
That‘s not entirely true. I think when you compare net spent over the last five or six years, Real actually spent less than we did. All Real do is to deal with higher numbers. But they do it on both sides. They might buy expensive guys from time to time, but they also sell for very high prices.
It’s easy to buy Ronaldo or Bale for about 90 millions each, when you make a profit as big as they did with guys like Özil, Di Maria or Morata.
True, I was originally talking about the last ten years though.
That galactico thing is no longer a thing IMO. They spent wisely the last years and bought „bargains“ like Assensio and Kroos. Their problem is more to rely on the old guard for too long and ship players like James and Morata out. They would probably be a better club now without BBC but with Morata, James and Isco starting in their spots.
Our wage bill has been consistently much bigger than theirs. We got Kroos because they wouldn't pay him what we did, and for us those wages were cheap
This idea that we haven't spent big on tranfer fees therefore we haven't spent big is just wrong. We spent a lot, just on wages. Why go out and sign a player for a big transfer fee when he's worse than what you already have?
This discussion's been done to death a dozen times or more, but including Süle is a new oddity. Now we're the big bad wolf for buying relatively unproven prospects? How is that more despicable than United buying Shaw or Smalling?
@Swift Football Fair play for conceding you were wrong.
I was mainly referring to the "in every window" part. Sure, 2009 was extreme in that regard, and Bale/James were statements too. But even over a larger timeframe, Real have always relied on clever transfers too, forming cheap, talented players into elite ones:
Higuain 11m
Özil 16m
Marcelo 6m
Varane 9m
Sure, but the argument I was disagreeing with here is *usually* about huge transfers every year (popular wording: "throwing money on new toys"), so that's what my post was about. And I may be wrong here, but isn't it so that Real's wage bill is quite hierarchical, and those cheaper transfers/Castilla promotions usually start on low to moderate wages until they earn raises?
(Btw, I'm sure Bayern could have matched Kroos's demands if they wanted to, they just made an erroneous assessment of the player's quality & potential.)
It's not a half a point's difference. You look at it as free points. Germany's chances of free points when they start are 28. That's 4 teams qualifying for the CL and all getting out of group and excluding all ponts for wins and draws.
Advantage:
Meaning that they start ahead because of bigger numbers. That's what an advantage is. It's all about them CL numbers and getting those teams through.
We can agree to disagree on this, that's not a problem for me.
@Synco Real and Bayern are not comparable in transfer spending. Real started spending the big bucks when they bought Zidane back in 2001 and they have 8 of the top 50 most expensive transfers ever but Bayern isn't even on the list and they've broken the world transfer record for the most expensive signing 5 times.
If you just look at the past 5 seasons it's Bayern ~£340m to Real's ~£310m so you're correct that recently it's not the case because it's 3 seasons in a row now that Real isn't really spending much like we are used to. However if we make the cut-off at 6 seasons then Real has spent about £70m more. It has to be noted that those ~310m that Real has spent were on 14 different players at about 22m a pop but for Bayern it's 13m per player. I'm also sure that Real's wage bill is a lot higher.
Bayern is sort of like Tottenham but if Tottenham were spending a bit more and could compete.
Sure, Real operates a different level altogether, that's undeniable. What I was originally contesting is the idea that their recent success can be explained with simply outspending everyone. While they surely invested heavily (transfers & wages) in some superstar players, they also did a terrific job in aquiring young, moderately priced (and - I suppose - paid) talent to blend in with the stars. Plus the great Castilla work. So bar some lapses, they have spent their money rather wisely & intelligently lately, which was crucial to their success too, but not something they get a lot of credit for. (The last BBC renewals & partial lack of depth after this summer are a big problem, though.)
Which is no slight on Bayern, whose team building has been very good as well (with some exceptions) on a lower budget.
I agree. The difference between Real and Bayern last season was that Bayern got a man sent off in both games while Real did not. When both teams had 11 men on the pitch, it was a very even contest.
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Their recent success is based on buying Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Ramos, Varane, Navas, Marcelo and Dani Carvajal back from Germany. Every single player in the squad apart from Nacho that took part in their recent success was purchased.
I admit my general dislike of Real got the better of me a bit there. The Bayern buy all their competitors players greatly vexes me
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(My last reply, since this is the Bayern thread)
I don't know, for me that list of players rather proves the point I was making. A mix of very expensive, moderately priced, and young inexpensive players.
Ronaldo and Bale were high-profile buys, Ramos was quite expensive for that time.
Modric and Benzema weren't cheap time-adjusted, but still smart buys.
Kroos was a bargain, all things considered.
Varane and Navas cost 9m each, Marcelo 6m.
Casemiro and Carvajal were Castilla players, coming back from loan/via buyback option, costing a total of ~5,5m (when substracting incoming fees).
Modric and Benzema weren't cheap time-adjusted, but still smart buys.
Kroos was a bargain, all things considered.
Varane and Navas cost 9m each, Marcelo 6m.
Casemiro and Carvajal were Castilla players, coming back from loan/via buyback option, costing a total of ~5,5m (when substracting incoming fees).
Indeed. Everyone knows that Bayern only hire right-handed players with no red hair. I challenge anyone to name more than a few red-haired left-handed Baern players /without using Google)!!!!!1!
It is far more easier to have good sex if you can have all the pretty girls.
Sammer? Is Kahn a ginger? Or they left handed? I have no idea
Sammer never played for Bayern. Linke, Borowski, Jancker, Jeremies, Zickler and Kroos did, though, all of them east Germans, even though Bayern did not participate in the great draining of east german clubs after 1989, which saw Kirsten/Thom go to Bayer, Sammer to Stuttgart, and Doll to HSV.
Nachtweih, a DDR refugee, was a vital part of FCB in the eighties.
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Looks like Bayern fans are not happy with Qatar training camp.
Generally speaking, it's not absurd to assume that general societal biases also creep into the management areas of football clubs. In the mid-2000s, Günter Netzer was on national state TV as the main expert claiming that Ballack wasn't able to be a 'leader' on the pitch because he stems from East Germany where subordination to the collective was taught.
I'm not saying @Swift Football 's 'analysis' is correct, but I will say that we can have a better attitude than to pour insults on a poster who makes a daring, or even maybe slightly wummy, claim. It's not a completely uninteresting one.