Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

RANDOM HISTORY RANT ON TOTALFOOTBALL TO MAKE UP FOR CANCELLING THE EQUALLY RANDOM EXHIBITION GAME

I don't think there's any question total football and most of its key components originate behind the Iron Curtain, which is telling. Arkadyev with Dinamo Moscow in the 40s (a 3-4-3 diamond, no less), Sebes with Hungary in the 50s, then Maslov with Torpedo Moscow and Lobanovsky at Dinamo Kiev. They kept innovating around what was at the time a ground-breaking concept: the team over individual brilliance, no place for stars, no place for slackers, everyone as dedicated and committed as each other. They introduced pressing to football. Pressing, which sounds obvious today. Well, it wasn't.

It was all completely aligned with Communist ideals, they were proletarian sides, often army/KGB sponsored, etc. There was no room for egos, only discipline, team and work ethic. Look at the Czechs or Yugoslavia, they also had excellent sides built on the same premise. Look at most of their midfielders (Voronin, Netto, Masopust...) and they were all-rounders, players that sound too good to be true because they seemed to be suited for almost any role... which is precisely what happens when you've had that versatility drilled into you throughout your career.

What made Hungary standout brightest was that, on top of all that, it also had at least six World Class players who were arguably the best in the world at the time in their own roles so there was no loss of individual quality, they weren't just automatons, but had both the entire team, system and individual brilliance going for them.

What I love about the Dutch though is how completely different the main thrust is. The Soviets were arguably the most successful European side of the 60s, yet few remember them kindly and few could name more than a couple of stars, if that. Not least because they were impaired by the very same regime that somewhat aided their tactical progress. Streltsov, referred to as a White Pelé and supposedly destined to shine as brightly as the very best ever, ended up stuck in a gulag for the crime of having his own mind: he refused to play for the Army/KGB sides.

Now, with the Dutch you come from the polar opposite extreme. Michels took all these grand ideas from the Russkis on team and work ethic, constant movement, versatility, swapping positions, pressing, etc. but those embracing them embraced them as a reactionary statement. It was more a 1970s "feck systems and rigidity, long live expansive expression". It was a system in itself, a very refined one, but the organised chaos and disruption was right in line with what those hippie-looking Dutch players would embrace as a style. Most of them actually dislike modern tiki-taka, finding it boring, rigid, contrived... they did triangles alright, but they were incredibly direct and gung ho about it all. They also didn't have any issue whatsoever with one or two of them being top dog individually and they in turn ran themselves into the ground working for the team anyway.

Then in the 80s you find a new experiment, a bunch of indisciplined Danish non-conformists also ended up embracing the same philosophy in the face of the borefest of a future that Italy 82 was threatening world football with. They never shone as brightly, but boy were they a joy to watch, most entertaining side in the 80s, by a mile.

Then over comes Sacchi and puts Italian thinking into all that, which proves superior to the much more attractive proposition that Cruyff's Dream Team was... then both things eventually get reconciled a decade or so later, and tiki taka has bored my brains out since.

Yups, give me the Dutch, Danish Dynamite or the Dream Team any day of the week. They'll concede, they'll score, the other side may wind up getting more, but either way it will be exciting :D
 
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I don't. Eusebio over Diego is simply about which gives us more chance of winning. I would have preferred Maradona in the current set up instead of Zico but that could not be done.

Fair enough, personally I thought Maradona would improve you though. One problem I'v had throughout with your team is having Zico + 2 others, when normally I would prefer Zico as a second striker with one partner. To me it seemed like Zico and Baggio would get in each other's way and it doesn't seem much different now with Eusebio in there. It will still be good how you intend to set up but it doesn't seem like your team has found or completed its identity in a way that Annahs seems to be doing, or Balus would've for example. Your team (I refuse to call it Theons!) is still a bit awkward IMO.
 
Fair enough, personally I thought Maradona would improve you though. One problem I'v had throughout with your team is having Zico + 2 others, when normally I would prefer Zico as a second striker with one partner. To me it seemed like Zico and Baggio would get in each other's way and it doesn't seem much different now with Eusebio in there. It will still be good how you intend to set up but it doesn't seem like your team has found or completed its identity in a way that Annahs seems to be doing, or Balus would've for example. Your team (I refuse to call it Theons!) is still a bit awkward IMO.

I disagree. It is essentially based on Brazil 2002. Muller + Eusbeio + Zico instead of Ron, Rivaldo and Goofy. I think I may have lost with Maradona in there since some would have thought it was just down to him in that team. I don't like the set up of Argentina 86 Anto posted earlier, Diego 86 is vintage all-time that team is not. Here it would have been loaded much better players but I agree with Balu as in that DM in that formation seems redundant to me, especially with Kaiser and Falcao in there. Using that position to man mark Pele would be a waste since no one will buy Pele being man marked out of the game even by Beckenbauer himself.
Also with Annah getting two CBs, having two forwards in there would be good.
 
To me it seemed like Zico and Baggio would get in each other's way and it doesn't seem much different now with Eusebio in there. It will still be good how you intend to set up but it doesn't seem like your team has found or completed its identity in a way that Annahs seems to be doing, or Balus would've for example. Your team (I refuse to call it Theons!) is still a bit awkward IMO.

Thanks mate. I think I will do you proud with the small connections I will add in this match that I have kept quiet for a final.
 
I disagree. It is essentially based on Brazil 2002. Muller + Eusbeio + Zico instead of Ron, Rivaldo and Goofy. I think I may have lost with Maradona in there since some would have thought it was just down to him in that team. I don't like the set up of Argentina 86 Anto posted earlier, Diego 86 is vintage all-time that team is not. Here it would have been loaded much better players but I agree with Balu as in that DM in that formation seems redundant to me, especially with Kaiser and Falcao in there. Using that position to man mark Pele would be a waste since no one will buy Pele being man marked out of the game even by Beckenbauer himself.
Also with Annah getting two CBs, having two forwards in there would be good.


Fair enough, look forward to your game.

:lol: Bless

Aye, you're right though. I've had no input into this side :wenger:



We know that nots true, it was crappy that got it to the final however. Though your tantrum and general childishness did lead to Pol having to reveal his line up 24 hours before the game, so you did do your bit, however classless it was.
 
Thanks mate. I think I will do you proud with the small connections I will add in this match that I have kept quiet for a final.


You've done really well mate, and to think you were a whisker away from going out in the first round! Will be proud to say I went out to the eventual winner if you do end up winning the thing!
 
You've done really well mate, and to think you were a whisker away from going out in the first round! Will be proud to say I went out to the eventual winner if you do end up winning the thing!

:lol: out of all the matchups, that was the one I called a dead rubber :wenger:
 
We know that nots true, it was crappy that got it to the final however.

Aye that stings Fergus, coming from a classy poster like yourself.

Yes crappy was excellent. And I apologised to Pol then stepped back from the game, not sure what else there is to say really.
 
:lol: out of all the matchups, that was the one I called a dead rubber :wenger:


You're a jinx!


Aye that stings Fergus, coming from a classy poster like yourself.

Yes crappy was excellent. And I apologised to Pol then stepped back from the game, not sure what else there is to say really.


As if it's only me that holds that view. You've turned people off draft games for good ffs!
 
You're a jinx!

As if it's only me that holds that view.

I'm sure it isn't, you do seem particularly upset about it all though.

As I just told you I apologised to Pol for misreading his line up, at the time it seemed the only thing he could do around the restrictions. I'm not sure what else you want said.
 
@antohan Excellent post. I agree on all accounts. Except that I do have a weakness for Italian masterful (and cynical) defending. In my book the ideal match is between a bunch of technically brilliant hippies and a steely, organized side that don't give a shit about entertainment - only about winning. Contrasts make football great - or used to make it great, at any rate. I sometimes think the sport has become less divers, more uniform in a sense, than it used to be. Then again I may be getting old, yearning for the days when players didn't bother to wear shin pads and weren't all on Twatter.
 
I'm sure it isn't, you do seem particularly upset about it all though.

As I just told you I apologised to Pol for misreading his line up, at the time it seemed the only thing he could do around the restrictions. I'm not sure what else you want said.


I'm not particularly upset, I just thought it was rather typical, that's all. Nothing else I want you to say.
 
Then over comes Sacchi and puts Italian thinking into all that, which proves superior to the much more attractive proposition that Cruyff's Dream Team was... then both things eventually get reconciled a decade or so later, and tiki taka has bored my brains out since.
Brilliant post, but is tiki taka really influenced by Sacchi's ideas for the game? I always thought that the boring part of tiki taka is van Gaal's fault, using possession to tire out the opponent, rigid positioning and organisation, that's all van Gaal and Cruyff hates him for it :lol:. I'd say Klopp's Dortmund is as close to Sacchi's vision as a team could be at the moment and he clearly owned van Gaal's Bayern in the end, not only with results, but even more in terms of entertainment.

And Klopp adores Sacchi.



I don't think German football has ever been the center of the tactical development of the game, but I'd say it is at the moment and it should be really interesting to see, what happens in the next 2-3 years and I really hope that Klopp has a postive influence on Guardiola, as strange as it sounds, because I fully agree, tiki taka bores the brain out. Give me Spain 08 over Spain 2010 and 2012 any day of the week.
 
Brilliant post, but is tiki taka really influenced by Sacchi's ideas for the game? I always thought that the boring part of tiki taka is van Gaal's fault, using possession to tire out the opponent, rigid positioning and organisation, that's all van Gaal and Cruyff hates him for it :lol:. I'd say Klopp's Dortmund is as close to Sacchi's vision as a team could be at the moment and he clearly owned van Gaal's Bayern in the end, not only with results, but even more in terms of entertainment.

I wasn't particularly thinking about Sacchi with tiki taka possession as a defensive strategy but more the defensive organisation and pressing, but now you say it neither does Cruyff have bugger all to do with it, so I was clearly missing a third influence! God I hated van Gaal, he didn't half sign shitty players just because they were Dutch :mad:

PS: I do think there was an element of "you can't hurt me without the ball" with Milan, but not as a full-blown strategy, and it may well have been Capello's. Or just how slow Italian football was at times relative to my weekly dose of the Dream Team :drool:
 
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Will a pic of the missus make you reconsider the need for a teamsheet?

dsc_22521.jpg
 
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i m fine with it. upto anna
Lets go! Sounds cool!
@Annahnomoss
@crappycraperson
@Theon
@Snow
Less than 3 hrs to the noon kickoff, PM your tactics etc to me before then or it will be a forfeit. Annah with Gk at the top and Crappy with GK at the bottom. Write-ups have to fit within a single PM. You can provide a link to your player profiles. As before, if it ends in a draw, we will go by penalties then managerial votes.
 
Just back from the shop with a bag o' ales. I have tomorrow off, it turns out, and I will spend this afternoon/evening drinking and posting rude comments as the final progresses.
 
It's his grandmas house, she has an office. He goes there to drink to get street cred on the Caf. Well known fact.
 
Drunk at the office, eh? I like your style, Poe.

Yup, we are a weird team. In fact have a bottle of Gin, Vodka, Martini and 2 wines to be used for team events! Our floor has about 200 staff and only our team of 12 do this...

After 3 double gins, was feeling good... But had to break and and attend a call.... Which unfortunately is still ongoing.... Now in a pissed off mood. Thinking of dropping off quietly and continuing drinking!
 
20 min to kick off, Team Annah is already warming up on the pitch, if the opponent do not show up, the crowd will be clamouring for a Dutch-Magyar combo to take to the field
 
Team theon just showed up at the stadium, match to kick off within the next 15 min or so
 
I'm not saying a word until after five o'clock GMT*. I am not even going to open the match thread until I've also cracked open a beer. I'm treating this final with due ceremony.

Well, maybe four o'clock.
 
I'm not saying a word until after five o'clock GMT*. I am not even going to open the match thread until I've also cracked open a beer. I'm treating this final with due ceremony.

Well, maybe four o'clock.

Looking forward to reading your comments. :D