Fans wilfully accept or won’t even acknowledge Sir Alex Ferguson’s ongoing influence at Manchester United.

The Oracle

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
1,123
Hear me out before diving in.


There are a mixture of staff and players currently at Manchester United that are often questioned by fans as to why they are at the club, and why their roles are seemingly untouchable.
I am going to talk about two players, and two members of staff.
It is my opinion that the 4 people I am going to mention, continue to be at the club because of the influence that Sir Alex Ferguson still has (despite his role being a non-executive member of the board).


Darren Fletcher
It is very telling that Ralf Rangnick doesn’t even know what Fletcher’s role is at Man Utd. Just look at what Ralf said back in February of this year:
“What is his role in with regard to the club? I don't really know, to be honest.”

According to Rio Ferdinand:
“Darren Fletcher was Sir Alex Ferguson’s pet,” Ferdinand said on BT Sport. “He was around the house for Sunday lunch. I never saw it, but that’s the rumours. Fletch never got a bollocking ever."

How long will Fletcher remain at the club?
In my opinion, as long as Sir Alex remains on the board of Directors, then Darren Fletcher will always have a role at the club.


Mike Phelan
Phelan was Sir Alex’s assistant between 2008 and 2013. He was also a first team coach during Solskjær’s tenure, and remained at the club even after Solskjær’s departure. Phelan is currently the assistant manager to Ralf.

How long will Phelan remain at the club?
In my opinion, as long as Sir Alex remains on the board of Directors, then Phelan will always have a role at the club.


Scott McTominay
Sir Alex convinced McTominay to choose Scotland over England at International level.
Speaking to The Herald newspaper in May 2018, McTominay said:
"After the memorial service for the Munich Disaster earlier this year he (Sir Alex Ferguson) pulled me aside and told me: 'Make sure you do play for Scotland.' ”
McTominay would go on to choose to play for Scotland over England.

That kind of loyalty would have been greatly appreciated by Sir Alex. Is it any wonder why McTominay continues to be a first team regular despite his often poor performances?
If we are to challenge for trophies again anytime soon, then Scott McTominay cannot be a regular starter in Manchester United’s midfield. He simply isn’t good enough.

How long will Scott McTominay remain at the club?
In my opinion, as long as Sir Alex remains on the board of Directors, then Scott McTominay will always be a first team regular in Utd’s midfield.


David De Gea
Signed by Sir Alex because of a fear of missing out on another ‘Petr Cech’.
Speaking shortly after De Gea’s arrival to the club, Sir Alex said in July 2011:
“I went to see Petr Cech when he was at Rennes. He was 19 at the time and I said to myself, ‘yeah, he’s too young’. But Chelsea bought him not long afterwards for £7 million or something and he’s never been out of the team.”

When looking at the four main facets of goalkeeping (shot-stopping, distribution, collecting crosses/command of area, organising defence), it is very easy to see that De Gea only excels at shot-stopping.
If we are to challenge for trophies again anytime soon, then we seriously need to identify a goalkeeper who excels at more than just shot-stopping.

How long will De Gea remain at the club?
In my opinion, as long as Sir Alex remains on the board of Directors, then David De Gea will always be a first team regular for Utd.


Accepting the influence that Sir Alex continues to have at Manchester United
From my own point of view Sir Alex has a lot of credit in the bank, and I mean a lot of credit. Some would even argue he has an unlimited amount of credit.
What Sir Alex Ferguson did for Manchester United in terms of the fantastic teams he built time and time again, and the success he brought; means that I accept his influence that he continues to have – despite (in my opinion) that influence being detrimental to the direction that we the fans want the club to go in, i.e. challenging for and winning trophies.


What are your thoughts on the influence that our greatest ever manager continues to have at the club?
 
SAF will always have his say, that being said, David Moyes was gone in months.

McTominay could be gone in few years, or just accept deep squad role.

De Gea is a bit riddle, think SAF simply liked him and tried to give him confidence that paid off in 2013 campaign. Later years were United supporters trusting him more than his disappointing teammates and he was truly fantastic without SAF's good word.

Fletcher will be here and perhaps he'll learn something more. Carrick was here for a long time and he left with Ole and both were on SAF's good side.

Hard to judge fan's favourite or SAF's favourite, but think the upcoming clearout is a must and someone will leave. Someone's must leave, that's for sure.
 
He is in a senior position in the club and has a big influence, shock horror!
 
he has far too much influence for my money. scott mctommy only gets as much game time as he does because fergie demands at least one scottish person in the team at any one time. every wondered why fred is called fred and not some exotic brazilian name?
it’s because it sounds scottish. he’s forced to wear a ginger wing and tartan cap whenever mctommy is out of the starting 11 and affect a scottish accent to please sir alec and his requirement.

there was a thread the other day questioning the condition and general athleticism of players after they join us. that’s because fergie demands all team dinners are scottish. you try running around after a plateful of deep fried mars bars. and why do you think shaw was putting out feelers about signing a new deal?
 
There isn’t a single person on the forum who knows how much (if any) influence Fergie still has on the decisions that are made within the club. Stop getting upset about hypothetical situations you’ve made up in your own head.
 
rimaldo said:
he has far too much influence for my money. scott mctommy only gets as much game time as he does because fergie demands at least one scottish person in the team at any one time. every wondered why fred is called fred and not some exotic brazilian name?
it’s because it sounds scottish. he’s forced to wear a ginger wing and tartan cap whenever mctommy is out of the starting 11 and affect a scottish accent to please sir alec and his requirement.

there was a thread the other day questioning the condition and general athleticism of players after they join us. that’s because fergie demands all team dinners are scottish. you try running around after a plateful of deep fried mars bars. and why do you think shaw was putting out feelers about signing a new deal?
Click to expand...
You know this because...
 
Tavern in the town said:
There isn’t a single person on the forum who knows how much (if any) influence Fergie still has on the decisions that are made within the club. Stop getting upset about hypothetical situations you’ve made up in your own head.
Click to expand...
spot on mate
 
rimaldo said:
he has far too much influence for my money. scott mctommy only gets as much game time as he does because fergie demands at least one scottish person in the team at any one time. every wondered why fred is called fred and not some exotic brazilian name?
it’s because it sounds scottish. he’s forced to wear a ginger wing and tartan cap whenever mctommy is out of the starting 11 and affect a scottish accent to please sir alec and his requirement.

there was a thread the other day questioning the condition and general athleticism of players after they join us. that’s because fergie demands all team dinners are scottish. you try running around after a plateful of deep fried mars bars. and why do you think shaw was putting out feelers about signing a new deal?
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
United will never win anything until the old ab is influencing things from behind, Mourinho hinted that too during his time.
 
I'm sorry but if the manager is good at his job and doesn't want these guys around then they won't be around. If there is no direction apart from what the CEO infers from a pissed up lunch with the old boss then that is not the old boss' fault.
 
Seemingly a lot of this foot stamping hostility is a result of this idea Ferguson is pushing Pochettino. Sometimes it verges on RAWKISH “He runs the FA!” Ism.
 
‘Accept?’ . What does ‘not accepting’ look like in real life then?
 
Of all the bad opening posts I've ever read on the Caf, this is the worst by around 480,000 miles.
 
Let's also not forget Karen the press officer, appointed by Sir Alex in the early 2000's but still at the club long after SAF has retired.

How long will Karen be at the club?

Can the club move forward with Karen still in place?
 
A strange thread.

It seems like you've created a little narrative in your own head and decided to make a thread about it.

Someone worked while Fergie was at United and they're still here, it must be because Fergie allows it.

Fergie spoke to McTominay once and Scott pleased him by doing what Fergie said, therefore he's a first team player because Fergie allows it.

Weird.
 
rimaldo said:
he has far too much influence for my money. scott mctommy only gets as much game time as he does because fergie demands at least one scottish person in the team at any one time. every wondered why fred is called fred and not some exotic brazilian name?
it’s because it sounds scottish. he’s forced to wear a ginger wing and tartan cap whenever mctommy is out of the starting 11 and affect a scottish accent to please sir alec and his requirement.

there was a thread the other day questioning the condition and general athleticism of players after they join us. that’s because fergie demands all team dinners are scottish. you try running around after a plateful of deep fried mars bars. and why do you think shaw was putting out feelers about signing a new deal?
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
I disagree about De Gea. He is there because he was in good form and essential to the team when we gave him a 375k pw 4+1 yr contract. Don't think SAF was the reason for anything.

I agree that he should not be given anymore extensions.

Edit: Oh and I forgot, I think rest of your post is a bunch of bollocks. SAF maybe interfering more than needed, but your examples are just something you made up in your mind to justify your own conclusion..
 
JakeTheRed said:
A strange thread.

It seems like you've created a little narrative in your own head and decided to make a thread about it.

Someone worked while Fergie was at United and they're still here, it must be because Fergie allows it.

Fergie spoke to McTominay once and Scott pleased him by doing what Fergie said, therefore he's a first team player because Fergie allows it.

Weird.
Click to expand...

Isn't it? It starts off reasonable enough... asks us to hear them out and then immediately devolves into conspiracy nonsense. Username does not check out.
 
Van Piorsing said:
SAF will always have his say, that being said, David Moyes was gone in months.

McTominay could be gone in few years, or just accept deep squad role.

De Gea is a bit riddle, think SAF simply liked him and tried to give him confidence that paid off in 2013 campaign. Later years were United supporters trusting him more than his disappointing teammates and he was truly fantastic without SAF's good word.

Fletcher will be here and perhaps he'll learn something more. Carrick was here for a long time and he left with Ole and both were on SAF's good side.

Hard to judge fan's favourite or SAF's favourite, but think the upcoming clearout is a must and someone will leave. Someone's must leave, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

For sure this has to happen
 
TwoSheds said:
I'm sorry but if the manager is good at his job and doesn't want these guys around then they won't be around. If there is no direction apart from what the CEO infers from a pissed up lunch with the old boss then that is not the old boss' fault.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. SAF can say all he wants but ultimately no manager worth his salt is going to accept that kind of interference. Certainly neither LVG nor Jose and neither The Pok nor would ETH accept that.
 
Berbasbullet said:
He is in a senior position in the club and has a big influence, shock horror!
Click to expand...

There is nothing shocking about Sir Alex having a big influence at the club, it is whether or not that big influence that you refer to plays a part in the direction that the club is going in. Which if we're being honest, the club aren't going anywhere at the moment.
 
The Oracle said:
There is nothing shocking about Sir Alex having a big influence at the club, it is whether or not that big influence that you refer to plays a part in the direction that the club is going in. Which if we're being honest, the club aren't going anywhere at the moment.
Click to expand...

Well, he's a member of the board of directors so obviously he's going to play a part in the direction of the organization.
 
David De Gea. To all the fans that think De Gea is a problem. Put Allison or Ederson in our team over the past 7 years and you’ll realise, De Gea is the better keeper. Put De Gea in city or Liverpool and you’ll realise his distribution isn’t as bad as you think, while there’s might be better, De Gea’s saves would pay off more.
 
Not sure if those four are still here due to his influence, Fletcher and Phelan possibly. I am of the view however that we resigned Ronaldo due to Fergies influence. Did Fergie not phone Ronaldo asking him to come back to us over City?

He was never an Ole signing that's for sure.
 
Foxbatt said:
I agree with you. SAF can say all he wants but ultimately no manager worth his salt is going to accept that kind of interference. Certainly neither LVG nor Jose and neither The Pok nor would ETH accept that.
Click to expand...
This was one of the issues with Ole, couldn’t get his head around the fact he had to move away from the past and the whole United DNA bollocks. Big hope for me is Ragnick will actually be consulted and Murtough isn’t from that clique, get a manger in, sign young players with the bit between their teeth and sever all connections between the class of 92 and the current players. Remember them fondly for their times here as players but they are useless pundits who just heap pressure onto players, are reactionary in their views and, most importantly, are not in touch with modern elite level football. The past is of no use to us, we need to look forward.
 
Same was said about Busby until Fergie came along.

He's paid a couple of million a year to sit on the board. If he had any say in team selection or players, half this lot would be gone already.
 
TwoSheds said:
I'm sorry but if the manager is good at his job and doesn't want these guys around then they won't be around. If there is no direction apart from what the CEO infers from a pissed up lunch with the old boss then that is not the old boss' fault.
Click to expand...

It will be interesting to see what the next manager does in terms of bringing in their own team of backroom staff. Based on the way the club is run, I don't believe any new manager will be given carte blanche to manage all aspects of the role their way; more than likely it will come with stipulations that will have already been made aware to them before they are offered the role.
 
If he had that much influence on the current situation the players would not be getting away with their behavior and performance. They are absolutely getting away with murder, a pack of charlatans.
 
johndurham49 said:
You know this because...
Click to expand...

i’ve seen fred in a fish and chip shop in stockport. he was looming over three plates of fried haggis and a plate of tatties, quietly weeping and saying to himself “ah cannae keep daein' this, isnae real fairn.” i knew it was him when shaw walked in and asked “you going to finish that, mate?”
 
I have no doubt they ask SAF's advice on occasion (why wouldn't you?), but I highly doubt he has any sort of proactive influence on anything, or certainly isn't stamping his feet over anything or anyone within the club.

His stance was always to give the manager complete (or as much as possible) control, so highly unlikely he is forcing his views on anyone who is not asking for them.
 
Loon said:
Seemingly a lot of this foot stamping hostility is a result of this idea Ferguson is pushing Pochettino. Sometimes it verges on RAWKISH “He runs the FA!” Ism.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware of any idea that Sir Alex was pushing for Poch. I was aware that Neville and Rooney were favouring the ex-Tottenham manager.
Once the new manager is announced it will be interesting to see how the process unfolded.
 
stevoc said:
Let's also not forget Karen the press officer, appointed by Sir Alex in the early 2000's but still at the club long after SAF has retired.

How long will Karen be at the club?

Can the club move forward with Karen still in place?
Click to expand...

Karen and a manager are not easily parted :D

I think he has an opinion that they are interested in, but at this point he’s almost a decade out of active football management and his style of running things kinda died with him and Wenger to some extent.

He may have some interest in some of our existing players and maybe he gives them an encouragement. God knows how many people come to him for advice inside United and outside United.

With Charlton’s condition as well, he’s probably replaced him at the club as the elder statesman figure. It’s probably like ‘2 days a month I’ll go in and attend the meetings and the rest of the time I’m enjoying retirement or attending events’
 
Completely agree that this is a thing and can’t argue against the points you make. The McTominay love in from within the club is bizarre but the SAF connection goes a way to explaining it.

Dont agree that SAF has credit in the bank to make decisions though, not after Moyes and how much the game has changed in 9 years. It’s clear we need a radical new direction to bring us in line with top clubs globally.

IIRC we had this with Busby where he lingered around in the background and there were suggestions he was still making decisions, we suffered a similar fate.

Let’s also not forget that Fergies best traits were his man management, work ethic and determination. He delegated and frequently updated his personnel in terms of players and staff to stay ahead of the competition.

There’s clearly far too much sentimentality at the club and not enough ‘best in class’ recruitment at all levels. I think that’s largely responsible for where we are now along with a distinct lack of leadership
 
Of course Ragnick would say that he doesn't know some of the staff do, it's normal.
He comes in from well built organizations and with a strong business management background into a club that's obviously not that well organized.

What he's doing is rocking the boat a bit and that's completely normal when someone with experience goes into an old fashioned "let's trust em all" environment.

In regards to the rest, please get out of the house more and relax, do stuff you love.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.