Sorry it looked like i was talking to you, but I meant in general. It all began with Alan Smith for me.
Fabregas
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Sorry it looked like i was talking to you, but I meant in general. It all began with Alan Smith for me.
But it was six fecking years ago, what the hell are you even trying to argue here?
They haven't tried to improve the midfield in six years, that's fact.
Yes that's obviously incredibly low. It was probably just a starting bid though. He joint Spurs for 15m at the end. We probably didn't think he was worth it.
Brilliant post. Apparently, we shouldn't be looking at Dembele because he'd only be a squad player, but we piss big money away on Young and Bebe.
That is changing the argument though, because steps were taken. The reaction when they didn't play out, however, is worth criticising.
Well guess we'll have to see, as I said Dembele would be an improvement but I don't see the point in buying someone as a bit of an upgrade. Better to wait imo until the right player comes. That said I do agree in general that idenifying the right midfielder has taken way too long. I just can't believe that there isn't a player in a smaller league out there who can make the step up. Also I guess you have to consider that maybe Pogba was thought off until last season as someone who would be breaking through.
Tbh I think as much as you can say that Fergie may have overlooked the midfield he/the club was pretty unlucky in how things turned out. Back in 07 when we bought Ando and Hargreaves, that looked like the midfield would be sorted, those two in, Carrick and Fletcher around. Its reasonable that they would give the former two a couple of seasons to get over their injuries. Then when they didn't we also got struck by Fletchers illness, followed by loosing Pogba.
At least it looks like this summer we're trying to answer the problem, there's still plenty of time left, although can appreciate why people would be anxious.
Not sure if that was towards me, but you are right, and I said that earlier. I do find it a bit mental that the board and Fergie did let our midfield go untouched for so long knowing that a new manager would inevitably have to come in and address it. It's left Moyes in quite a tough position and I think that's reflected in trying to sign Fabregas.
And that's fair enough.
What are you on about? I can't remember the last time we signed a midfielder. You're talking about signings like Anderson and Hargreaves that were, in football terms, from a different epoch.
We've been crying out for a midfielder for about five years now and have failed to do anything about it.
Not soon enough. Hargreaves, wasn't it?
So when was that, 2007?
In that case, no signings - for an obvious area of weakness, for six years. It's bordering on negligent.
fecking hell, this is becoming a bit weird now.Either Moyes is the most stubborn man on earth or he doesn't have the ability to catch a hint.
The only way he's bringing Fabregas to Manchester is by force, roll out the kidnap limo already.
We brought Cleverley through and were trying to spur both Pogba and Morrison on to break into the first team. You're mistaking me for someone who doesn't think we need to sign a midfielder, I think we do and have for some time but at the same time I do think Fergie had plans in the midfield that he just couldn't quite make materialise, that's all.
It's been discussed to death and I'm not going to debate it in this thread but yet again I can only go back to Pogba, we should have reassured him of a first team place and give him decent pay rise. No doubt his agent is a mega cnut but he's one of the best young midfielders in Europe who's just walked out on us for feck all, I still cant get over it.
But me and you are talking about two different eras. The Anderson/Hargreaves signings played out in 2007, at a time when we had a great team shaping up. After we were humiliated against Barca in Rome and then Ronaldo left, we should have had the foresight to realise we needed to strengthen. Instead, the years went on and we relied on an ageing Scholes and Giggs, and playing players out of position.
We've had a good six years now of becoming increasingly aware of the fact that we have midfield issues, and we've done nothing to rectify the situation.
Moyes needs to quickly learn to keep a firm "no comment" on transfers unless it really is a clever Fergie esque way of sending a message to the selling club.
The, "doesn't know" whether we'll make another bid might be mind games, but sounds a bit uncertain.
The "I never said we'd deffo be buying him" line sounds just plain rubbish
The, "doesn't know" whether we'll make another bid might be mind games, but sounds a bit uncertain.
The "I never said we'd deffo be buying him" line sounds just plain rubbish
I agree we'd need to add but my point is I think Clev could match Dembele, so whats the point in having two good but below the best players? Why not give Clev the chance to step up, save the cash and then invest in a top quality player which is what we're doing? I would say that Carrick and Clev at their best is no weaker than ramires/lampard, Arteta/Wilshere. Mikel/Barry aren't really that much if any better as squad players than Ando, although obv more reliable fitness wise, would rather have Giggs over them. People can slate Giggs, he can be a liability but he is capable of great performances in the middle as well, better than most out of those teams. Don't think Ramsey is that great either. Only City really had a better midfield cause of Toure. Either way Fergie got it right because we comfortably won the league, it was harder than it should have been at times and we rode our luck with Carrick staying clear of injuries, but it was fine. Now we're looking to seriously invest in a midfielder as shown by the Fabregas bids.
Using Young as an example isn't really fair to me as most of us would say that we overpaid for him and Bebe was clearly about something other than the player. I think we should have brought through an alternative for Carrick last season in case of injury, don't think say Dembele is that guy. But we didn't and it worked out. As I said not we're looking to invest. Moyes has said he's looking for maybe 2 midfielders I think which would be perfect for me. A carrick alternative and a creative player.
As I said, I have high hopes for Cleverley, and as it happens, I think we did the right thing with Ravel. We should have done more to keep Pogba though. You only need look at his Juve form to see that he's a star. Unfortunately, we took an idealistic stance, which is out of step with modern football.
Put it this way, the youth team hasn't provided us with a player of sufficient quality/consistency to justify us not signing an established player in the past six years.
I'd like to think that's a message to Fabregas' camp, but the "I never said we'd sign him" line makes me think it's over.
I think it also sends out a message to Fabregas himself and maybe he start thinking about his future in the club. Is he willing to be benched when he clearly is one of the best midfielders in the world today? What's the point in playing in a team where you're not wanted and refuse to sell you?
That second comment made him sound like he was backtracking, big style.
I'm with TH here.
We have been waiting on Fletch and Anderson to be fit, which accounts for the lack of signings, to an extent.
It would be a good discussion for another thread. I have hardly seen Fabregas mentioned in 2 pages, and I don't think this thread needs help to challenge the "50K", the way it's going.
We have been waiting on Fletch and Anderson to be fit, which accounts for the lack of signings, to an extent.
It would be a good discussion for another thread. I have hardly seen Fabregas mentioned in 2 pages, and I don't think this thread needs help to challenge the "50K", the way it's going.
I don't disagree with you but the thing is this is an opinion you can only come up with by using hindsight. You could make the argument that we would have had a very strong midfield for the last 6 years if Hargreaves had turned out alright, Anderson had kicked on from his first season and Fletcher's bowel hadn't gone the way it did and in a perfect scenario, Morrison, Pogba and Cleverley would all be coming into the midfield too. That is what I am arguing.
We've been overly patient with our crocked players. If you chuck Hargreaves into the mix, we've waited a long time and given a lot of opportunities for players to come back to fitness. There comes a point when you cut the cord.
"I couldn't tell you if there will be another bid [for Fabregas]," he said.
"I never at any time said I knew we would get him. We will take stock and consider what we are going to do next."
These quotes from Moyes sounds like the end of Fabregas pursuit.
"I never at any time said I knew we would get him. We will take stock and consider what we are going to do next."
These quotes from Moyes sounds like the end of Fabregas pursuit.
I disagree mate. I'd say the vast majority of the supporter base has recognised our need for a top class midfielder for at least five years now. We haven't been ruthless enough in our central midfield activity.
It does seem pointless to proceed with another bid when Barca clearly don't want to sell, he has a long contract and is happy in his hometown playing for his beloved club.
Yep.
Two weeks to shift or attentions to (probably) a considerably inferior player, who won't have had any proper settling in period.
Less than ideal.
Assuming the stories that the Fabregas camp encouraged United to bid, this may also be interpretedi as some sort of an ultimatum to the Fabregas camp
It was not meant for Barca, but for Fabregas....assuming he is really interested in the move
My point is that Moyes is looking at the situation and thinking that there aren't a lot of players who can improve Manchester United while the field was a lot bigger for a team like Everton. Especially if you aim for the Fabregas's of this world.
It's worrying that we haven't signed anyone yet simply because it's not a case where it wouldn't be so bad if we didn't. We really need someone, I'd still say two. Midfielders, obviously.
Yeah, after it came evident that Hargreaves was going to be crocked for his duration here. We spent a lot of the time waiting for him to be fit, as he was perpetually two weeks away from fitness.
The comments from Moyes have increasingly distanced himself from the attempted transfer and put the focus on Woodward instead. Whilst it would seem obvious that Moyes says "I want him" and then the board thrash out a deal (or not), the communication from the manager should indicate that he is in control.
That said, at least he's now being a bit more subtle about things. Shame it's just probably an indication of him having to be subtle because the transfer's not going to happen.
That said, at least he's now being a bit more subtle about things. Shame it's just probably an indication of him having to be subtle because the transfer's not going to happen.
He's not going to try and force a move away. With a new manager and Xavi slowly fading away it'd be completely pointless for him to leave now and deny himself a chance to be a star of the club he wanted to play for so much.
Well we should have given up on Anderson ever becoming a prolific starter for us by now. It's took what 6 years? and there's still no signs of his 'condition' changing. There's not an excuse in the world that convince me why we haven't signed a midfielder before now.
It's more than conditioning that is wrong with Anderson.
I don't think it's as cut and dried as waiting for Xavi to be phased out. He's 33, meaning he's probably got at least a couple of years of being a starter.
with Neymar, Messi and Iniesta around it's very difficult for him to be the star of the team. He ll always be one of the other players. Mind you, Xavi could play until his late 30's considering his position and Barca style.
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