F1 - McLaren escape, by a whisker

I used to love McLaren. I'm not so sure now. Now they've actually been found guilty of this then I'm not sure I can like them anymore. It's like I lost all respect for West Ham when that furore came to the surface.

I guess we'll see where this takes them, but on reflection I'm not sure this judgement is as harsh as it sounds.
 
I used to love McLaren. I'm not so sure now. Now they've actually been found guilty of this then I'm not sure I can like them anymore. It's like I lost all respect for West Ham when that furore came to the surface.

I guess we'll see where this takes them, but on reflection I'm not sure this judgement is as harsh as it sounds.

I feel the same too.

Okay they lose the team championship this year but what does that mean to a team like McLaren...

They will have another chance to win as a team because they are one of the biggest teams on the grid - and for that reason they will always have willing sponsor's. They can still race in both season's and have time to rectify any technical issues for next years car. It also looks very likely that one of their current drivers will win the championship.

Okay, the £50m is quite a vast sum of money but at the end of the day the amount of money involved in Formula 1 is much more staggering and in time they will get over this deficit.

In my opinion, the biggest thing they have lost is the integrity and respect as you have clearly pointed out in the first part of your post.
 
Even Jackie thinks so now!

Three-time world champion Sir Jackie Stewart believes there is more information to be made public.

"All I can say, without being in full command of all of the information, is that the offence must be considerably larger than has been projected either by the governing body of the sport or within the media," he told BBC Radio 5live.

"This isn't murder that has been carried out, this is something that has happened before and there wasn't even a fine or disciplinary action taken by the same governing body.

"There is something very strange going on, there is no doubt about that.

"From what information we have been given so far, this does not constitute a penalty of this scale with regards to the crime that has been carried out.

"And even if they were found guilty of that particular crime, it doesn't justify this kind of penalty."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6991147.stm
 
Jayus, they must have some shocking evidence to go around dishing that out. Don't see how the drivers can be let off though. Either the car was illegal or it wasn't. If it was, then how is it fair that one of them is going to win the championship.

I like the way it's swift justice though....yeah, you're guilty, here's the punishment, piss off.
 
Jayus, they must have some shocking evidence to go around dishing that out. Don't see how the drivers can be let off though. Either the car was illegal or it wasn't. If it was, then how is it fair that one of them is going to win the championship.

I like the way it's swift justice though....yeah, you're guilty, here's the punishment, piss off.

The FIA are going to release a report on Friday and then Ron Dennis will decide whether to appeal.

He also says this..

"Having been at the hearing I do not accept that we deserve to be penalised or our reputation damaged in this way," he said.

"Today's evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage.

"The WMSC received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren, and that no confidential data had been passed to the team.

"The entire engineering team in excess of 140 people provided statements to the FIA affirming they had never received or used the Ferrari information.

"We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees at his home.

"The issue is: was this information used by McLaren? This is not the case and has not been proven."

Interesting don't you think?

Full story here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6991147.stm
 
The FIA are going to release a report on Friday and then Ron Dennis will decide whether to appeal.

He also says this..



Interesting don't you think?

Full story here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6991147.stm

What was the new evidence?

Was all this just to pacify Ferrari?

Why punish the team and not the drivers?....we know they got dispensation for providing evidence.....evidence the didn't incriminate the team, who were then punished anyway....was all this just to pacify Ferrari?

Ferrari are happy that 'the truth has now emerged'....when all that's emerged is a punishment. No truth, just a punishment. They were found guily after the first hearing...nothing has changed apart from the handing down of a punishment at the behest of Ferrari. Until we hear what the new evidence was, Ferrari bullied the FIA into punishing McLaren. Hopefully we'll hear it tomorrow.

How the FIA can do this and not reduce aero on the cars, or ban refuelling, is anyone's guess.
 
What was the new evidence?

Was all this just to pacify Ferrari?

Why punish the team and not the drivers?....we know they got dispensation for providing evidence.....evidence the didn't incriminate the team, who were then punished anyway....was all this just to pacify Ferrari?

Ferrari are happy that 'the truth has now emerged'....when all that's emerged is a punishment. No truth, just a punishment. They were found guily after the first hearing...nothing has changed apart from the handing down of a punishment at the behest of Ferrari. Until we hear what the new evidence was, Ferrari bullied the FIA into punishing McLaren. Hopefully we'll hear it tomorrow.

How the FIA can do this and not reduce aero on the cars, or ban refuelling, is anyone's guess.

I thought you was asking me all that then! :eek:

Others, including me and even Jackie Stewart can't see how the punishment fits the crime. Now that Ron has come out and has basically said they have proved they haven't used it, they must only be getting punished for being in possession of the materials - the same as last time - something isn't right then.

The new evidence was reportedly emails sent between drivers concerning the situation. Apparently anyway there might be more.

Hopefully all the above will be answered tomorrow or sometime soon - I can see it going to appeal - and not just another story shrouded in mystery behind the scenes.
 
I thought you was asking me all that then! :eek:

Others, including me and even Jackie Stewart can't see how the punishment fits the crime. Now that Ron has come out and has basically said they have proved they haven't used it, they must only be getting punished for being in possession of the materials - the same as last time - something isn't right then.

The new evidence was reportedly emails sent between drivers concerning the situation. Apparently anyway there might be more.

Hopefully all the above will be answered tomorrow or sometime soon - I can see it going to appeal - and not just another story shrouded in mystery behind the scenes.

Sounds like it will be long, drawn out, and messy. If the new evidence is just talk, then Ferrari run F1.
 
Earlier they just found them guilty in possession of the info, the new evidence must have proved that they used it.

IMO after the found them guilty of the first charge, the burden of proving that they did not use the info fell onto McLaren. So they ought to have punished McLaren after first evidence itself.
 
I think they should reverse the fine. Double it and give it to Ferrari for being despicable cnuts and employing that cheating twat Schumacher for so long. seems fair enough to me.
 
F1 is a joke of a sport. No real racing and now Mclaren are just a bunch of cheats. Switch to Motogp or NASCAR for some real motorsport.
 
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:lol::lol::lol:
 
As usual, the ruling favors Ferrari. In fact most of of rules in F1 are tailored for Ferrari, the technology, the aerodynamics etc..

I'm surprised they didn't strip points of the 2 McLaren drivers to benefit Ferrari too.

Remember The Great Ayrton Senna had a World Championship stolen by the then french FIA president to benefit the Prost his compatriot.
 
Much as I dislike Ferrari, I think here the ruling is just. It seems to me that McClaren cheated, and if you cheat then you should be punished.

What I find ludicrous is that by punishing them they are admitting that the McClaren car actively used Ferrari material. They had already found them guilty of possessing it and dismissed the charges, so by now punishing them they must have found out that McCalren used the information. If that was the case, and they were therefore running illegal cars, then the drivers should be stripped of some -- if not all -- of their points, too.

The drivers gained an illegal advantage by driving those cars, too.
 
As usual, the ruling favors Ferrari. In fact most of of rules in F1 are tailored for Ferrari, the technology, the aerodynamics etc..

I'm surprised they didn't strip points of the 2 McLaren drivers to benefit Ferrari too.

Remember The Great Ayrton Senna had a World Championship stolen by the then french FIA president to benefit the Prost his compatriot.

Pull your head out of your ass.
 
Well alledgedly later on Friday, the findings of the council will be published, so we'll see precisely what they're accused of doing wrong. Jackie Stewart has only summed it up perfectly, if the only wrongdoings are that outed to the media so far, this £50 million fine is an absolute and complete nonsense. There must be more to it. Remember here by the way it's a Ferrari employee who gave a McClaren employee the information. Now McClarens defence is that while they acknowledge the employee had the information, none of it was used on the design of this years car. There has to be damning evidence that this McClaren claim is not true for this punishment to have been cast down. It's meant to be the case that teams are responsible for all their employees actions, and this makes McClaren guily. Well, aren't Ferrari responsible for their employee who gave their information away?

Should also be pointed out that anytime a mechanic moves teams, he gives away the secrets of the last team he's been at. Nothing underhand about it, just a fact of life. That's Formula 1

Count Duckula said:
Much as I dislike Ferrari, I think here the ruling is just. It seems to me that McClaren cheated, and if you cheat then you should be punished

Unless it's Ferrari of course! :rolleyes:
 
Ferrari r the real cheaters everybody knows Mclaren r the real champions of 2007 ferrari r jst gonna b remembered as the cheaters of formula 1 for as long as they stay in the sport

Braindead

ferrari get away with everything, i thought i might end when that cheat shumi left but its just got worse!!

mclaren ant don anything wrong, it wo stepneygate who stole the documents, ferrari should be band!!!

i HATE ferrari, cheatin B******S

Bitter? Surly not

Ferrari couldn't beat McLaren on the race track, so they resort to back stabbing!!!

Ferrari have 'friends' in the FIA........

F*CK FERRARI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C'mon Fernando & Lewis, Show those tossers whose boss!!!!!!!!!!!

:smirk:

http://www.bebo.com/mclaren-fan-site

:lol::lol::lol:
 
Take away the off track stuff and F1 is miles better then NASCAR.


motoGP is a real motorsport...

NASCAR however...is just a bunch of cars running 200 laps in an oval

feck. Didn't expect this from you, man. fecking NASCAR fan.

I am not a NASCAR fan! I've never even watched the fecking thing but from what I've heard at least there is 'racing' involved. Unlike formula 1 which involves who has the faster car and has tracks like Monaco where there is basically no overtaking. Give me anoval with 200 cars that can win over a circuit with only 1 possible winner any time.
 
Of course I was being entirely serious.

Although now that i think about it .............

:p
 
Could be worse. You could just have been foned 50 million pounds. That has to spoil your day no matter how much cash you have.
 
50 million pound Fine , loss of constructors points plus another 70 million dollars that they would of received for winning the championship. The extra cost for the freight that they shall have to pay has they have no points in the championship. So all those for the actions of one man and the entire company feels the pinch.

What was proven in July was that NO info was passed onto there making of the cars and once again has Ferrari was involved penalise the opposition not had a championship for a while this is one way to get one god I despise that team ANYONE BUT FERRARI.

One can argue that McLaren-Mercedes have all of a sudden become extremely reliable its no confidence that this happened when Adrian Newey left ,extremely gifted engineer but one who pushed the envelope thus resulting in fast but extremely unreliable cars just look at RED BULL.

Old Max , Bennie and FIA dont want to upset there cash cow Ferrari these lot are in bed together and is no secret that Dennis and Max are not on each others Christmas card lists.

So yes McLaren-Mercedes employee had the engineer data given to him by a Ferrari employee both have been removed from there jobs and it was proven that in July that no benefits were gained to McLaren-Mercedes so why the fine and drop the points for something that was not used and proven to have not been.
 
Well alledgedly later on Friday, the findings of the council will be published, so we'll see precisely what they're accused of doing wrong. Jackie Stewart has only summed it up perfectly, if the only wrongdoings are that outed to the media so far, this £50 million fine is an absolute and complete nonsense. There must be more to it. Remember here by the way it's a Ferrari employee who gave a McClaren employee the information. Now McClarens defence is that while they acknowledge the employee had the information, none of it was used on the design of this years car. There has to be damning evidence that this McClaren claim is not true for this punishment to have been cast down. It's meant to be the case that teams are responsible for all their employees actions, and this makes McClaren guily. Well, aren't Ferrari responsible for their employee who gave their information away?

Should also be pointed out that anytime a mechanic moves teams, he gives away the secrets of the last team he's been at. Nothing underhand about it, just a fact of life. That's Formula 1



Unless it's Ferrari of course! :rolleyes:



nice on Brad
 
Shame politics can't be kept out of sport.

FIA = Ferrari International Assistance
 
Should also be pointed out that anytime a mechanic moves teams, he gives away the secrets of the last team he's been at. Nothing underhand about it, just a fact of life. That's Formula 1

Very good point Brad. Two sets of rules Ferraris and the rest. ANYONE BUT FERRARI.
 
Seconded. A fecking championship gifted to Ferrari.

Don't you mean a fecking championship gifted to McLaren the cheating twats!

Don't forget its McLaren that have cheated they're way to the championship lead in the first place.