F1 - McLaren escape, by a whisker

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McLaren go unpunished


LEWIS HAMILTON'S bid to rule Formula One has received a boost after McLaren escaped punishment in the 'spying' scandal.

The 22-year-old rookie currently tops the drivers' championship with nine podium finishes in his first 10 races.

But there were fears he could be docked points, or at worst suspended, after his team were found in possession of Ferrari's design documents.

Despite the infringement, the sport's governing body the FIA have ruled they do not have enough evidence to impose a punishment.

However, they warned McLaren could face exclusion from this year's championship and be banned from entering in 2008 if they use the stolen information at a later date.

For now at least, Hamilton is free to continue his remarkable debut season as he bids to become the first British F1 champion since Damon Hill in 1996.
 
A case of Brits cheating on Italians.
An episode that could relieve the pressure on our sport scene for a while, at least - until next football scandal. :(
 
feck that, the cycling world is in shambles now. them guys blatantly take dope... ironically the current dope head guy was in ITALY and NOT MEXICO when he was due a random drugs test... cheating italians... davids, stam and god knows who else...
 
Uzi said:
feck that, the cycling world is in shambles now. them guys blatantly take dope... ironically the current dope head guy was in ITALY and NOT MEXICO when he was due a random drugs test... cheating italians... davids, stam and god knows who else...
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Is your idiocy at a level that allows you to realize you're an idiot (in which case there's hope) or is it way beyond that?
He said to his team manager that he was in Mexico but he was in Italy and the cheaters are the Italians?
feckwit.

And it's OT anyway. This is a Formula 1 thread, 4 wheels not 2.
Again: feckwit.
 
Is it just me or is McLaren in really, really deep shit right now?
 
Not a word from the McLaren fans? ;)
 
I'm not a McLaren fan, I'm an Alonso fan.

I hope McLaren are kicked out of the championships for this year and next year. That way Alonso can find a team that actually appreciates him and Hamilton can take his smug little face and crawl back into the sewer where he belongs.

Plus Kimi might finally win a title that way. It's a travesty that a driver with his skill hasn't won the Championship yet.
 
Just said on the radio that the new envidance is an email between Alanso and the Mclarren test driver.
 
Count Duckula said:
I'm not a McLaren fan, I'm an Alonso fan.

I hope McLaren are kicked out of the championships for this year and next year. That way Alonso can find a team that actually appreciates him and Hamilton can take his smug little face and crawl back into the sewer where he belongs.

Plus Kimi might finally win a title that way. It's a travesty that a driver with his skill hasn't won the Championship yet.
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One can't help but feel that McLaren are guilty in this one. I mean how often do you see Ferrari struggle for reliability whilst the McLaren's stay relatively faulty free for almost a whole season?.

I simply can't stand how bigged up Hamilton gets by the media, they make him out as the best thing to have graced a formula one circuit.

I agree with you on Alonso, he is a cracking driver and deserves better even though I hate the bastard. Kimi is just a fast fecker, there is nothing else to his driving.
 
Eto'odinho said:
I simply can't stand how bigged up Hamilton gets by the media, they make him out as the best thing to have graced a formula one circuit.
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Thing is, as a kid coming into his first season in formula one, he is the best thing to have graced a formula one circuit. His record breaking run of podiums, and the fact he still remains top of the standings with only a few races remaining, says it all. It's entirely justifiable to rave about his performances, they've been exceptional

What on earth does Alonso deserve better?! It's his own performances that have put him behind his team mate, why should the team have to supress their other driver who looks just as good if not better than him? Bizarre
 
To be honest though, Brad, no other rookie joins Formula One in the fastest car on the grid. They start much lower down, so they're never going to set those records. It's not a fair playing field.

And I think that McLaren, even subconsciously, are more favourable towards Hamilton. I watched an interview with the pit crew, where they said that Hamilton comes and chats to them after the races and things. It's not hard to help the driver you like just that tiny bit more.

And besides, if McLaren are allowed to stay in the championship I fancy Alonso to overhaul those last three points in five races.
 
If Alonso can't beat a rookie just because the pit crew chat to him he doesn't deserve the drive.
 
I'll admit that Hamilton is a very good driver, I was just trying to point out that I think in a very subtle way McLaren favour him over Alonso. Just my opinion.

And I think that either Alonso or Kimi will win the championship, depending on whether McLaren are kicked out or not. Here's hoping they are.
 
Count Duckula said:
To be honest though, Brad, no other rookie joins Formula One in the fastest car on the grid. They start much lower down, so they're never going to set those records. It's not a fair playing field.

And I think that McLaren, even subconsciously, are more favourable towards Hamilton. I watched an interview with the pit crew, where they said that Hamilton comes and chats to them after the races and things. It's not hard to help the driver you like just that tiny bit more.

And besides, if McLaren are allowed to stay in the championship I fancy Alonso to overhaul those last three points in five races.
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Few go straight in at the top mate, that's true. Consider there may be a very good reason for that though!

First year rookies make mistake. Often a fair few of them. I can only think of one really during my time watching Formula 1 who broke through and just looked the bollocks from the word go, and that's the cheating German cnut. Thing is, what mistakes has Hamilton made? Very very few, if any. Certainly less than his more experienced team mate so far this season. And this despite the pressure of driving for arguably the best team this season, and leading the world championship for months. I think he deserves all the praise he's getting, you can't fault a guy til he gets it wrong, and he hasn't done that yet!

You might well be right about Alonso, this is where his world title winning experience should count after all. But what a performance if Hamilton edged him out! I can't see them eliminating McClaren over the Spy row to be honest, and from what I've read their evidence is somewhat ropey, heavily based on the times of calls / emails between De La Rosa and Alonso, and between those two and the McClaren engineer or something. I guess it'll come out fully after the judgement. If their points totals remain unaffected, I'll have you a tenner bet Hamilton wins the world championship rather than Alonso, wanna take it ?
 
Keano1999 said:
2 Year ban for McClaren. Still no details on how that impacts the drives this season.
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2 years!? :eek:

Your joking me? I've been waiting for a decision all day where did you hear it?

If so, that's crazy what will it mean they cannot race at all for the next 2 seasons or just the constructors won't score points... Never thought a big decision like that would come out of it, guess I'll have to wait a bit longer to find out the details...


I looked for some info..

McLaren have been excluded from the 2007 and 2008 Formula One World Championships.

The Woking team, who faced the World Motor Sport Council for the second time in Paris today after new evidence came to light, were found guilty of using Ferrari's information in this year's Championship.

And the punishment is their exclusion from this year and next year's World Championships.

More to follow...
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http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2726626,00.html
 
So they are expelled from this year's as well?

Anti-climax to Hamilton-Alonso drama this year.

Last thing F1 needed really, was already going down in popularity for me.
 
I don't think everything is confirmed as of yet - it is just leaked rumours or whatever - we will shortly get an answer though..

Still waiting for anything to appear on the mclaren / FIA site but nothing as of yet, plus the FIA site is being a bit dodgy, won't load most of the time...

http://www.fia.com/
 
Breaking news from Paris: Claims that McLaren have been thrown out of both the 2007 and 2008 championships may be premature. It's now believed that, although the World Council has proposed the team is expelled, the exact nature of their punishment is still being discussed...
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According to reports on the BBC, the FIA's World Motor Sport Council has proposed that McLaren are excluded from the 2007 and 2008 World Championships.

However, the corporation claims that the exact nature of the punishment which will be meted out is still being discussed.

As such, Lewis Hamilton's World Championship bid may yet be rekindled, with McLaren expelled from the Constructors' Championship but both Alonso and Hamilton permitted to compete for the Drivers' title.

The FIA has confirmed that a definitive verdict is now imminent.
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Some sites are suggesting its a paddock rumour and backtracking, sky sports points to planetf1, however, planetf1 points to BBC - there is nothing on the site so it's probably from five live...

They are still discussing it...

Best to wait for an official statement.
 
I was just starting to get back into the sport after several years because of the exciting drivers championship contest. With this fiasco unfolding I'm rapidly losing interest again and will find better things to occupy my time.
 
McLaren hit by constructors' ban

McLaren have been stripped of their points in the 2007 Formula One constructors' championship after the outcome of the 'spygate' row.

The team was also hit with a record $100m (£49.2m) fine, which includes any prize money they would have earned from the constructors' championship.

But drivers Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso can keep their points.

The team must also prove there is no Ferrari 'intellectual property' in their cars next year before racing.

McLaren team chief Ron Dennis is due to give his reaction to the verdict at a 1915 BST news conference.

Full story to follow

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6991147.stm
 
Presumably then they lose the prize money that came with winning those constructor points? Don't know if that's part of or on top of that record fine. Can't see them not appealing that decision

Reminds be a bit though of Schumachers retrospective season banning. It was a farce really, mattered feck all. The season was done, it didn't affect anything bar the record books, and even then when people talk about how many races he won in his career today, they still reference those he gained during that season
 
Why do the drivers get to keep their points?

They are a part of the team, and if McLaren is found guilty, they benefited from the inside info as well. It's like saying a footballer can win the golden boot award even if the team is kicked out from the competition.
 
crappycraperson said:
Why do the drivers get to keep their points?

They are a part of the team, and if McLaren is found guilty, they benefited from the inside info as well. It's like saying a footballer can win the golden boot award even if the team is kicked out from the competition.
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They never could touch the drivers points mate, we're coming to the climax of a potentially lucrative time here in Formula One now, a three way fight (just about) between the young pretender, the rookie with nerves of steal and composure to match, the reigning world champion good enough to beat Schumacher in arguably a better car, throw in that they're team mates, and there is also still a challenge from the legendary Ferrari in the shape of Raikkonen, if they ruined that now by throwing McClaren out, they'd be biting off their nose to spite their face. And good word if anything should have learnt its lesson the hard way about doing that in the past, it's Formula 1
 
Remains to be seen what the drivers do next season. A fine that big will almost certainly hit McLaren in their performance -- I can see them struggling for the rest of this season (although I think one of their drivers will still win), but I can see them being really terrible by their own standards next season. All Ferrari have to do is claim part of the 2008 car is their intellectual property and that's that scuppered, too.

I can see them becoming the fourth best team on the grid next year (behind Ferrari, BMW and Renault), which will really hurt their finances and their future. Once you've started that slide it's hard to arrest it, and I can't see them attracting the absolute top drivers like they have had before. They'll have to be content with Webber and Kovalainen, or similar.

If that does happen -- next year's car being shite -- I don't think Hamilton will leave, though. He's a McLaren driver through and through and would probably stay with them if they were battling against last place, but I could see Alonso trying to get his contract annulled. Don't know where he'd go, mind.

I also wouldn't be suprised if Ron Dennis announced his retirement in the very near future. It's not actually his fault that the team is being fecked over -- he had no idea his employees were doing this -- and so to see the team he's worked so very, very hard for over the years effectively destroyed because of employees working behind his back will probably be too hard for him to take.

I suppose we'll find out in the very near future. I bet he cries again.
 
Formula One is a racket anyway. And hasnt been genuinely competitive for years.
The fine is massive....deserved ....but no doubt will be reduced on appeal. that way everyone will get something out of it, or claim to.

so big fine but no points deducted. re-paint mclaren cars in west ham colours.

thing is we all want regulation in sport but we are all hypocritical about it.
only west ham fans think they were treated unfairly...the rest of us think they deserve it.
mclaren fans will think of this one way...but ferrari fans have a different perspective.
same with the woman who won the 400 metres at world championship.
we demand action against drug cheats and test dodgers but of course we want her to be an exception.
 
Brad Cantona said:
They never could touch the drivers points mate, we're coming to the climax of a potentially lucrative time here in Formula One now, a three way fight (just about) between the young pretender, the rookie with nerves of steal and composure to match, the reigning world champion good enough to beat Schumacher in arguably a better car, throw in that they're team mates, and there is also still a challenge from the legendary Ferrari in the shape of Raikkonen, if they ruined that now by throwing McClaren out, they'd be biting off their nose to spite their face. And good word if anything should have learnt its lesson the hard way about doing that in the past, it's Formula 1
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Yes, great fight for the championship but should not have had any influence on the punishment. If McLaren benefited from the spying so in turn did the drivers.
 
crappycraperson said:
Yes, great fight for the championship but should not have had any influence on the punishment. If McLaren benefited from the spying so in turn did the drivers.
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This seems pretty obvious.
Here they're saying on TV that drivers' points weren't deducted because they cohoperated with the judges.
But if McLaren goes on appeal, they'll reconsider the pilots' situation.
 
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