F1 2023 Season

Lots of overtaking yesterday, and I don't rember one that wasn't on finish straight with help of DRS?

Even Perez with much quicker car than anyone wasn't bothered to follow anyone through the corners and try somewhere else, the cars are shite when it comes to close racing.
 
Amar__ said:
Lots of overtaking yesterday, and I don't rember one that wasn't on finish straight with help of DRS?

Even Perez with much quicker car than anyone wasn't bothered to follow anyone through the corners and try somewhere else, the cars are shite when it comes to close racing.
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Other than turn 1 and 10 (where there were a few overtakes) I'm curious where you think Perez should've tried to overtake?

Also, it's pretty obvious the close racing has improved a ton when you see 3-4 cars going lap after lap within a second of each other without ruining their tires, something that was unheard of with the previous regs.
 
Zlaatan said:
Other than turn 1 and 10 (where there were a few overtakes) I'm curious where you think Perez should've tried to overtake?

Also, it's pretty obvious the close racing has improved a ton when you see 3-4 cars going lap after lap within a second of each other without ruining their tires, something that was unheard of with the previous regs.
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I am sorry but I don't remember overtakes from turn 10(altough that could be completely down to me, anyone else?). He didn't need too, but people have overtaken in Monaco in different places when they needed, Barcelona is more than wide enough for Perez who's had more than 2 seconds quicker car than anyone else, especially those at the back.

3-4 cars going lap after lap after eachother is okay, I agree it's not ruining their tires, but I don't think the car behind is so easy to drive at the same time. There are many battles from the 2000s where the front two drivers went like crazy in each others gearbox and we simply don't see that, even if the tires management have improved with modern cars in those situations. I think the only time we saw that was Silverstone last year and that took around half a lap until someone overtook someone else with DRS.
 
Zlaatan said:
Other than turn 1 and 10 (where there were a few overtakes) I'm curious where you think Perez should've tried to overtake?

Also, it's pretty obvious the close racing has improved a ton when you see 3-4 cars going lap after lap within a second of each other without ruining their tires, something that was unheard of with the previous regs.
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The change to sector 3 and removal of the chicane has massively improved the spainish GP.

Also Perez should have caught russell and over taken him. If max was in perez situation on sunday, you can be sure he'd make it happen. Perez just isnt in that elite tier 1: max, alonso, hamilton or even tier 2: leclerc, russell.
 
Amar__ said:
I am sorry but I don't remember overtakes from turn 10(altough that could be completely down to me, anyone else?). He didn't need too, but people have overtaken in Monaco in different places when they needed, Barcelona is more than wide enough for Perez who's had more than 2 seconds quicker car than anyone else, especially those at the back.

3-4 cars going lap after lap after eachother is okay, I agree it's not ruining their tires, but I don't think the car behind is so easy to drive at the same time. There are many battles from the 2000s where the front two drivers went like crazy in each others gearbox and we simply don't see that, even if the tires management have improved with modern cars in those situations. I think the only time we saw that was Silverstone last year and that took around half a lap until someone overtook someone else with DRS.
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It is possible to overtake elsewhere but why would you, unless the car in front is in a DRS chain.

It’s why DRS is so rubbish. It stops overtaking on other parts of the circuit, as cars know it is far less risky and more efficient to sit behind the car for half a lap and overtake on the longest straight.
 
goalscholes said:
It is possible to overtake elsewhere but why would you, unless the car in front is in a DRS chain.

It’s why DRS is so rubbish. It stops overtaking on other parts of the circuit, as cars know it is far less risky and more efficient to sit behind the car for half a lap and overtake on the longest straight.
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Yeah, that's exactly my point regarding Perez.
 
goalscholes said:
It is possible to overtake elsewhere but why would you, unless the car in front is in a DRS chain.

It’s why DRS is so rubbish. It stops overtaking on other parts of the circuit, as cars know it is far less risky and more efficient to sit behind the car for half a lap and overtake on the longest straight.
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Martin Brundle made a really good point, DRS should be limited to say a 80 second use maximum. The driver can decide where and when during the GP to use that 80 seconds. Deploy the whole lot or break it down into 10 second chunks etc.

Adds a strategic element to DRS.
 
dinostar77 said:
Martin Brundle made a really good point, DRS should be limited to say a 80 second use maximum. The driver can decide where and when during the GP to use that 80 seconds. Deploy the whole lot or break it down into 10 second chunks etc.

Adds a strategic element to DRS.
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Personally, I think it would make it even worse. Didn't we already had something similar with Kers, and now with battery anyway?
 
Amar__ said:
I am sorry but I don't remember overtakes from turn 10(altough that could be completely down to me, anyone else?). He didn't need too, but people have overtaken in Monaco in different places when they needed, Barcelona is more than wide enough for Perez who's had more than 2 seconds quicker car than anyone else, especially those at the back.

3-4 cars going lap after lap after eachother is okay, I agree it's not ruining their tires, but I don't think the car behind is so easy to drive at the same time. There are many battles from the 2000s where the front two drivers went like crazy in each others gearbox and we simply don't see that, even if the tires management have improved with modern cars in those situations. I think the only time we saw that was Silverstone last year and that took around half a lap until someone overtook someone else with DRS.
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Well if it specifically has to be the front two drivers who are battling it out then we all know why that's not really happening, and it's not because the new regs hasn't worked as intended.

If it's just battles in general you want then I'm not sure how you can say we're not seeing that or what you're comparing it to really. I've been watching F1 since the early 90's and I can't remember a time when it was so much better than it is today with wheel-to-wheel battles with lots of overtakes all over the track, so I think there's some big rose tinted glasses being used looking back and maybe some unrealistic expectations about how these new regs were going to change things.
 
dinostar77 said:
Martin Brundle made a really good point, DRS should be limited to say a 80 second use maximum. The driver can decide where and when during the GP to use that 80 seconds. Deploy the whole lot or break it down into 10 second chunks etc.

Adds a strategic element to DRS.
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That's literally push to pass from Indycar but with a wing
 
Zlaatan said:
Well if it specifically has to be the front two drivers who are battling it out then we all know why that's not really happening, and it's not because the new regs hasn't worked as intended.

If it's just battles in general you want then I'm not sure how you can say we're not seeing that or what you're comparing it to really. I've been watching F1 since the early 90's and I can't remember a time when it was so much better than it is today with wheel-to-wheel battles with lots of overtakes all over the track, so I think there's some big rose tinted glasses being used looking back and maybe some unrealistic expectations about how these new regs were going to change things.
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Which tracks? Because I watch every race and I would say more than 95% of overtakes are just in DRS zones. Also, can you again point out which overtakes did we have in Spain apart from finish straight with help of DRS?

Here are two interesting and very good links, especially the first one:

https://www.keberz.com/amp/overtaking-in-formula-1-the-2022-season-update

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/how-drs-has-skewed-formula-1s-overtaking-records-5026023/5026023/

This one from 2016. is interesting too for comparision.
 


I mean, I am enjoying the F1 after not watching it for so many years, I don't want to sound like I don't like it because I really do. But we cannot ignore that these are 7 minutes and 30 seconds finish line highlights, and what's funny is that it was actually a very good race.
 
Amar__ said:
Which tracks? Because I watch every race and I would say more than 95% of overtakes are just in DRS zones. Also, can you again point out which overtakes did we have in Spain apart from finish straight with help of DRS?

Here are two interesting and very good links, especially the first one:

https://www.keberz.com/amp/overtaking-in-formula-1-the-2022-season-update

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/how-drs-has-skewed-formula-1s-overtaking-records-5026023/5026023/

This one from 2016. is interesting too for comparision.
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Maybe I worded that a bit clumsily, I meant I can't remember a time when there were a lot more wheel-to-wheel battles with overtakes all over the track compared to today. I'd be incredibly surprised if 90%+ of the overtakes being made 20 years ago didn't take place in the exact same areas as they are today, i.e in a hard braking zone after a long straight. The only difference now is that the long straight also has a DRS zone that too often makes it too easy.
 
Perhaps the Ferrari F1 team can ask the Ferrari WEC for some tips? Come back after 50 years, win on the first try.
 
Telsim said:
Perhaps the Ferrari F1 team can ask the Ferrari WEC for some tips? Come back after 50 years, win on the first try.
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Perhaps F1 can ask endurance racing regulators how it’s more entertaining, watched a fair bit of it and it was better than anything I’ve seen this season from F1.
 
Telsim said:
Perhaps the Ferrari F1 team can ask the Ferrari WEC for some tips? Come back after 50 years, win on the first try.
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Most of them were the F1 team. Looks like they shifted the wrong people across.

With a few safety car shaped exceptions the WEC stewards don't think they're part of the show.
 
christy87 said:
Perhaps F1 can ask endurance racing regulators how it’s more entertaining, watched a fair bit of it and it was better than anything I’ve seen this season from F1.
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Endurance racing has a thing called Balance of Performance to make the cars in each class more evenly matched, for example yesterday in the Hypercar class Toyota had a 37kg weight penalty, Ferrari 24kg, Cadillac 11kg and Porsche 3kg. It does bring it's own problems though with teams sandbagging and everyone being annoyed their team is punished more than necessary etc.

But I don't know if endurance racing in general have been any better than F1 when it comes to entertainment, Audi, Porsche and Toyota have all dominated over the last 15 years just like RB and Merc has done in F1. Yesterday's race was the best one in absolute ages though and hopefully it will become even better with more manufacturers coming in over the next couple of years.
 
Le Man was fantastic but the adverts on Eurosport were absolutely infuriating. It seemed they would do 5 minutes of racing, 5 minutes of adverts, rinse and repeat.
 
Zlaatan said:
Endurance racing has a thing called Balance of Performance to make the cars in each class more evenly matched, for example yesterday in the Hypercar class Toyota had a 37kg weight penalty, Ferrari 24kg, Cadillac 11kg and Porsche 3kg. It does bring it's own problems though with teams sandbagging and everyone being annoyed their team is punished more than necessary etc.

But I don't know if endurance racing in general have been any better than F1 when it comes to entertainment, Audi, Porsche and Toyota have all dominated over the last 15 years just like RB and Merc has done in F1. Yesterday's race was the best one in absolute ages though and hopefully it will become even better with more manufacturers coming in over the next couple of years.
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That's exactly why Hypercars have appeared. They were supposed to be easily built, low cost cars that would all be similarly paced and translate to a company's road cars. The latter didn't quite work out but its still been enough to attract manufacturers in their droves, F1 had a similar idea but they ballsed it up by allowing teams to fiddle the regulations without punishment.
 
Apparently hamilton wants a 5 year contract with mercedes taking him to 2028 when he will be 43.
 
dinostar77 said:
Apparently hamilton wants a 5 year contract with mercedes taking him to 2028 when he will be 43.
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That's great.

All while he is already talking about how he wouldn't turn up the chance of going filming TV shows while the season is running.
 
dinostar77 said:
Apparently hamilton wants a 5 year contract with mercedes taking him to 2028 when he will be 43.
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i’ll look forward to him driving round the track with an indicator constantly on, shaking his fist and shouting “maniacs!” at the whippersnappers who fly passed him whilst he’s crawling along the straights. the team radio, full of meandering stories that go nowhere. him being hoisted out of the car at every pitstop to use a heavily branded commode. him asking if every other driver is his grandson during interviews in the paddock.
 
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