F1 2023 Season

Well, a long gruelling 23 race season, RBR comfotably ahead, Le Clerc giving up after 1 quali time, yep, will be a fun few months :lol:
 
Alonso seems to be quietly confident on the long run race pace tomorrow, and low degradation on the tyres for AM - considering Bahrain is one of the highest for tyre deg he could be a shoe in for a podium and a dark horse for a race win.
 
F-Red said:
Alonso seems to be quietly confident on the long run race pace tomorrow, and low degradation on the tyres for AM - considering Bahrain is one of the highest for tyre deg he could be a shoe in for a podium and a dark horse for a race win.
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Perez said both red bulls were set up for the race so not sure the win is necessarily on. Podium potentially as ferrari were generally horrible on tyres in 2022.
 
Nice start to the season with both Max and Perez saying that car is set up for the race. Still hope it will be interesting battle at the top between Red Bull, Ferrari and Aston Martin.
 
Apparently Ferrari decided to save one set of softs because they are going to be fighting with Fernando since RBR is out of reach for them.

 
F-Red said:
If you're using Q3 as the benchmark for gaps, then it's pointless as not everyone had two sets of tyres and a new set would probably give 0.2 secs lap increase. Q2 was a bit more representative. Gaps between 1-8 is much closer than gaps between 1-8 from last year. Total field gap last year was around 2 seconds, now it's down to 1 second so gaps are relatively close compared to last year.

If Leclerc had gone for a new set on a final run then he would have been up there fighting for pole.
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Leclerc was fighting for pole in the midst of Red Bull's total domination last season, as Ferrari still have decent one lap pace, so that doesn't really make much difference.

Red Bull are still miles ahead of everyone else, the field bunching up a little doesn't change that, the difference is that they're starting this season as far ahead as they finished last season, whereas this time last season they were still figuring out the car.
 
The Hilton said:
The gap is much further than last year, as at least then RB had some technical issues and it took them about a third of the season to pull away from everyone.

The lack of wind tunnel time could make a difference if one of the three challengers find a magic box with a lot more pace in, but RB are so far ahead it looks very unlikely.

This season will be the same domination as the latter half of last season.
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I dont expect the reduction in wind tunnel and CFD time to affect them too much. They are so far ahead that they could switch over to developing the 2024 car by race 10 and not be too affected. Its quality of the wind tunnel runs after all than quantity.

0.250 is a big gap for ferrari to make up with budget caps. 0.650 is a everest of a gap to overcome if your mercedes.
 
dinostar77 said:
I dont expect the reduction in wind tunnel and CFD time to affect them too much. They are so far ahead that they could switch over to developing the 2024 car by race 10 and not be too affected. Its quality of the wind tunnel runs after all than quantity.

0.250 is a big gap for ferrari to make up with budget caps. 0.650 is a everest of a gap to overcome if your mercedes.
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Yeah that's exactly my point, Red Bull nailed this set of rules and are set up to dominate until the next set. And we won't even get an inter team race like we did for a couple of seasons with Mercedes.

Short of a rule update to clip their wings (like with Merc 2 years ago) Red Bull and Max will be running away with it for the foreseeable future.
 
The Hilton said:
Yeah that's exactly my point, Red Bull nailed this set of rules and are set up to dominate until the next set. And we won't even get an inter team race like we did for a couple of seasons with Mercedes.

Short of a rule update to clip their wings (like with Merc 2 years ago) Red Bull and Max will be running away with it for the foreseeable future.
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I would say bring on 2026, but it just gets worse as Red Bull Powertrains will get an additonal £30mil over two years, more than mercedes, ferrari and renault for the powertrain alone.

"....New manufacturers will receive an additional ten million dollars in the first year and another five million dollars in the second year. In addition, they get fifteen million dollars to spend on equipment and time on the dyno..."

Agreeing to the engine development freeze was a huge mistake by renault, ferrari and mercedes.
 
You can hardly tell the difference between max and leclerc but it ends up being 0.250 seconds.

 
dinostar77 said:
You can hardly tell the difference between max and leclerc but it ends up being 0.250 seconds.

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Yep, I was pretty sure Leclerc and Ferrari thought he made perfect clean lap as soon as I saw he stayed in the garage. They knew Red Bull had another 0,1-0,2 seconds that they couldn't make up, so keeping tires and staying out was reasonable decision.

If the same shit with tire degradation happens to Ferrari, then it is a non contest season without any doubt.
 
RB were always expected to be strong here, as it plays to their strengths, and the bunching up of the field is interesting.

However, I'm more concerned that the other major teams haven't seemed to have ironed out last years issues. The Merc still being the second slowest car through the speed track is embarrassing.
 
This is big, totto has admitted defeat with the zero sidepod design. They are dumping it..

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1021566/1/mercedes-change-w14-car-concept-after-hamilton-criticism

Wolff says it is now time for Mercedes to admit defeat with their distinctive concept.

“I don’t think this package is going to be competitive, eventually,” he said.

“We gave it our best go also over the winter and now we just need to all regroup, sit down with the engineers who are totally not dogmatic about anything, there is no holy cows, and decide what is the development direction we want to pursue in order to be competitive to win races.

“It’s not only like last year that you’re scoring podiums and eventually you get there. I’m sure we can win races this season but it’s really the mid- and long-term that we need to look at which decisions you need to take.”

Wolff added: “We hit our targets. That’s why we gave it out best shot. And the moment comes and the stopwatch comes out and that showed us that it’s simply not good enough. We haven’t got enough downforce and we need to find solutions to fix that.”
 
dinostar77 said:
This is big, totto has admitted defeat with the zero sidepod design. They are dumping it..

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1021566/1/mercedes-change-w14-car-concept-after-hamilton-criticism

Wolff says it is now time for Mercedes to admit defeat with their distinctive concept.

“I don’t think this package is going to be competitive, eventually,” he said.

“We gave it our best go also over the winter and now we just need to all regroup, sit down with the engineers who are totally not dogmatic about anything, there is no holy cows, and decide what is the development direction we want to pursue in order to be competitive to win races.

“It’s not only like last year that you’re scoring podiums and eventually you get there. I’m sure we can win races this season but it’s really the mid- and long-term that we need to look at which decisions you need to take.”

Wolff added: “We hit our targets. That’s why we gave it out best shot. And the moment comes and the stopwatch comes out and that showed us that it’s simply not good enough. We haven’t got enough downforce and we need to find solutions to fix that.”
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I mean I called this from the outset but what the feck would I know according to the merc fan bois.

Unless you develop a double diffuser brawn style or fan car, if your car is radical and slow, you fecked up
 
mariachi-19 said:
I mean I called this from the outset but what the feck would I know according to the merc fan bois.

Unless you develop a double diffuser brawn style or fan car, if your car is radical and slow, you fecked up
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Easy to say
 
Well that was fun for about 15 min. Horner is such a tedious character. Ferrari already given up.
 
dinostar77 said:
This is big, totto has admitted defeat with the zero sidepod design. They are dumping it..

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1021566/1/mercedes-change-w14-car-concept-after-hamilton-criticism

Wolff says it is now time for Mercedes to admit defeat with their distinctive concept.

“I don’t think this package is going to be competitive, eventually,” he said.

“We gave it our best go also over the winter and now we just need to all regroup, sit down with the engineers who are totally not dogmatic about anything, there is no holy cows, and decide what is the development direction we want to pursue in order to be competitive to win races.

“It’s not only like last year that you’re scoring podiums and eventually you get there. I’m sure we can win races this season but it’s really the mid- and long-term that we need to look at which decisions you need to take.”

Wolff added: “We hit our targets. That’s why we gave it out best shot. And the moment comes and the stopwatch comes out and that showed us that it’s simply not good enough. We haven’t got enough downforce and we need to find solutions to fix that.”
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WOW that is a massive admission they fecked up, but most of us knew that anyway ,even the keenest Mercedes fans.
So is that another season wrote off.
Massive blow to both drivers, more Lewis he wants that 8th, both drivers will be seeking assurance that there is a winning car sooner rather than later.
 
hobbers said:
Yeah but he's neither an aerodynamicist, engineer, analyst or strategist.

So it's not the greatest look for a team when you put out endless claims everyone is pulling in one direction and unified around a concept, only for one driver to publicly disagree, and then suddenly the whole team has 180'd.

Plus the car clearly isn't shit. In race trim it was better than Ferrari quite often in the second half of last season.
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That’s when the Ferrari was turned down just to survive the race’s
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Easy to say
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Like the Williams Walrus nose which, if we’re being honest, was probably the last time a big team brought out something radical that didn’t work, it’s obvious when the pace isn’t there from the outset that there’s an issue.

There’s a reason that most of the cars look the same or follow similar concepts. It’s not because the engineers are dumb. You can differ from the generic, but you take a huge risk if it doesn’t work. Mercedes have potentially just put themselves in a massive hole for the next two years if they abandon the current car. I’d be surprised if Lewis doesn’t take a sabbatical after this year and wait to see what 2025’s car has to offer before retiring for good. He’s not at an age where he’s going to be happy peddling around for bottom half of top 10
 
I dont think its all doom and gloom for mercedes. They have new design sidepods coming for race 6 anyway which suggests to be they decided to abandon the zero side pod design back in the winter and couldnt get the new parts manufactured in time.

The Aston Martin has shown them a way forward as it uses alot of mercedes parts. Mercedes would need a new front wing design potentially, new sidepods definately and some changes to the floor. Whether that can all be fitted in under the budget cap remains to be seen.

The car is mechanically sound, the engine is powerful, the rear suspension has elimated porposing. Its just that the car is draggy, the new sidepods might fix that.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Like the Williams Walrus nose which, if we’re being honest, was probably the last time a big team brought out something radical that didn’t work, it’s obvious when the pace isn’t there from the outset that there’s an issue.

There’s a reason that most of the cars look the same or follow similar concepts. It’s not because the engineers are dumb. You can differ from the generic, but you take a huge risk if it doesn’t work. Mercedes have potentially just put themselves in a massive hole for the next two years if they abandon the current car. I’d be surprised if Lewis doesn’t take a sabbatical after this year and wait to see what 2025’s car has to offer before retiring for good. He’s not at an age where he’s going to be happy peddling around for bottom half of top 10
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And if you develop something radical that does work, they will outlaw it.

For the sake of racing the cars need to reasonably similar.
 
dinostar77 said:
I dont think its all doom and gloom for mercedes. They have new design sidepods coming for race 6 anyway which suggests to be they decided to abandon the zero side pod design back in the winter and couldnt get the new parts manufactured in time.

The Aston Martin has shown them a way forward as it uses alot of mercedes parts. Mercedes would need a new front wing design potentially, new sidepods definately and some changes to the floor. Whether that can all be fitted in under the budget cap remains to be seen.

The car is mechanically sound, the engine is powerful, the rear suspension has elimated porposing. Its just that the car is draggy, the new sidepods might fix that.
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Good post, well balanced views, agree with it all.
I have no idea how much a new body costs to design and manufacture in enough quantity for the rest of the season but I would think a far chunk of the budget
 
Hamilton isn’t going to take a sabbatical, mostly likely he will do another 2+1 contract with Mercedes and see what they can do from here. Even dumping an entire concept they are capable of making this car a winner, they did it last year with an absolute train wreck of a car at the start. The only limitation will be the budget.

He may be coy about it and keep his options open into the summer, F1 grids change so fast, I think he’s Mercedes through and through but if a Ferrari was suddenly available and a winner would he really say no?
 
Please be an interesting race and not just the red bulls disappearing into the distance
 
gormless said:
Brutally honest from Toto. Never seen a team principle say that before the first race.

If this year is a write off they may be able to work on the 2024 car much sooner than others
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Agreed.
Bearing in mind the huge financial investment by Mercedes Benz I would not think that they would be at all happy with writing off another season.
 
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