F1 2022 Season

I agree with everyone saying there's a lot of improvement on the marshals side of that Sainz scene on the weekend, but I don't quite understand why he didn't put the car in gear? Also with powered breaks and steering these days it shouldn't be above F1 to introduce a button to lock the brakes (at least as long as there's hydraulic pressure left)?
I think that's a bit beyond our paygrade to answer, but i'm quite sure the car would stall, then default back to neutral anyway.

I dont think the automatic gearboxes work like a conventional manual where you can leave it parked in gear and not roll etc.

I'm sure a handbrake would be possible, but I don't remember ever seeing this problem before. Usually there is no rush to get out of the car so the driver can sit there holding the brake until a Marshall puts a wedge under a wheel.

Obviously in this situation though the fire sped the timeframe up massively.

They just need to be reacting a lot faster. Why the Marshalls weren't standing there ready to wedge the car as soon as it came to a stop? I can't understand.
 
I agree with everyone saying there's a lot of improvement on the marshals side of that Sainz scene on the weekend, but I don't quite understand why he didn't put the car in gear? Also with powered breaks and steering these days it shouldn't be above F1 to introduce a button to lock the brakes (at least as long as there's hydraulic pressure left)?

Its not how the semi autos work. They always default to neutral as its both anti stall and the failsafe option. You can't have a revving engine suddenly finding 1st gear when the driver isn't ready or isn't even in the car.

The solution is already in place- chocks. The marshals just didn't react fast enough.
 
Its not how the semi autos work. They always default to neutral as its both anti stall and the failsafe option. You can't have a revving engine suddenly finding 1st gear when the driver isn't ready or isn't even in the car.
It didn't look so failsafe on sunday. Surely it could be made possible to shut of the engine while in gear. Not that shutting of the engine would help in case of a fire anyway...
The solution is already in place- chocks. The marshals just didn't react fast enough.
Chocks are an option, given events on sunday and the fact that you can't have marshalls every 5m at every track makes me think they should look into adding more options.
 
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It didn't look so failsafe on sunday. Surely it could be made possible to shut of the engine while in gear. Not that shutting of the engine would help in case of a fire anyway...

Chocks are an option, given events on sunday and the fact that you can't have marshalls every 5m at every track makes me think they should look into adding more options.

Uncontrolled movements, possible engine and powertrain damage, marshals unable to move the car if its stuck in gear (thats probably the main reason).

The problems it would cause would be far more frequent than this single occurrence of a car rolling back a few feet.
 
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The chocks did nothing to stop Sainz car anyway, in the end it stopped because they steered it into the barrier.

Not sure if that was done by Sainz or the marshalls after he'd got out.

Chocks are useless if there's an inferno at the back of the car and you cant get close enough to wedge them in the back wheels.
The chocks didn't work because the car was rolling as the Marshall tried to put it under the wheel. He ended up falling over and the car rode over it just as the camera cut away.

It was a comedy of errors - thankfully the car had a barrier close by to crash into. I had a horrible image in my head of a flaming ferrari rolling down back into the oncoming traffic :(
 
Looks like a South African Grand Prix will be in place from next year. Tickets will cost about 300 euros - is that the normal price (I'm definitely going to try get)?
 
What do you lot think about Mercs response to Russell crashing into Perez? Haven't read much about it on here. Shovlin basically said "he was on the curb so he left enough space" and Wolff said "he had full steering lock so not much he could do" with both statements being half truths at best, apologetic bollocks at worst. You can be on the curb (he was at one point) and have full steering lock (he might have at one point) but if you carry too much speed, hit the curb too hard or accelerate out of the corner too hard and then bounce or understeer into an opponent who is ahead of you you're obviously still in the wrong. It also ended the race for Perez while Russell in the end gained a position from his mistake. These are exactly the kind of statements that Horner would get a lot of flack for on here in my opinion.
 
What do you lot think about Mercs response to Russell crashing into Perez? Haven't read much about it on here. Shovlin basically said "he was on the curb so he left enough space" and Wolff said "he had full steering lock so not much he could do" with both statements being half truths at best, apologetic bollocks at worst. You can be on the curb (he was at one point) and have full steering lock (he might have at one point) but if you carry too much speed, hit the curb too hard or accelerate out of the corner too hard and then bounce or understeer into an opponent who is ahead of you you're obviously still in the wrong. It also ended the race for Perez while Russell in the end gained a position from his mistake. These are exactly the kind of statements that Horner would get a lot of flack for on here in my opinion.
Watch Russells onboard. He did nothing wrong.

He is allowed to be on the track, he took the corner as best as possible but with a full tank of fuel and cold tyres, you'll naturally understeer.

Perez braked late and put himself in the path of danger, thats the risk. All this "he was ahead" is total BS, it doesn't matter if you stick your nose ahead for a moment just because you braked later. By this stage Russell has already committed, you can't do anything to avoid contact by that point. Perez does this A LOT. He sticks his cars in dangerous positons and hopes for the best, sometimes he gets away with it.

Funnily enough Helmut Marko actually criticised him too. Awkward :wenger:

https://racingnews365.com/red-bull-critical-of-perezs-driving-we-told-him-not-to-do-that
 
Russell clearly understeered and hit him but was a first lap racing incident. Perez should have been smarter and avoided first lap heroics and bided his time. He had much more to lose
 
Watch Russells onboard. He did nothing wrong.

He is allowed to be on the track, he took the corner as best as possible but with a full tank of fuel and cold tyres, you'll naturally understeer.

Perez braked late and put himself in the path of danger, thats the risk. All this "he was ahead" is total BS, it doesn't matter if you stick your nose ahead for a moment just because you braked later. By this stage Russell has already committed, you can't do anything to avoid contact by that point. Perez does this A LOT. He sticks his cars in dangerous positons and hopes for the best, sometimes he gets away with it.

Funnily enough Helmut Marko actually criticised him too. Awkward :wenger:

https://racingnews365.com/red-bull-critical-of-perezs-driving-we-told-him-not-to-do-that
Helmut Marko criticized him yeah saying it cannot be done and while yes it has gone wrong there before it's definitely been done successfully. Sure he took a risk and he could have been more patient as @avgp_1 says but I don't agree with Marko here and judging by his comments neither does Horner. The (British) pundits didn't agree with Marko either. Even they thought Russell was at fault there after watching the replay.

I've watched the onboards plenty of times and disagree. He bounced off the curb and subsequently understeered into Perez who was ahead at the apex. He could have avoided that by not carrying as much speed going into the corner or not hitting the curb as much. Having cold tyres and a full tank isn't really an excuse is it? I mean, if you crash into the back of someone going into turn 1 do you then say "oh but that's not his fault, he had cold tyres and a full tank"? No you expect the driver to account for those factors and the same goes for Russell here.
 
@ArjenIsM3 I dont agree personally. I didn’t agree with hamilton getting a penalty with Albon either.

Trying to brake late around a car that’s already in the braking zone just makes it extremely difficult to avoid contact. On a right handed corner if somebody is taking a tight line you need to give more room. Perez came across too tight too early.
 
What do you lot think about Mercs response to Russell crashing into Perez? Haven't read much about it on here. Shovlin basically said "he was on the curb so he left enough space" and Wolff said "he had full steering lock so not much he could do" with both statements being half truths at best, apologetic bollocks at worst. You can be on the curb (he was at one point) and have full steering lock (he might have at one point) but if you carry too much speed, hit the curb too hard or accelerate out of the corner too hard and then bounce or understeer into an opponent who is ahead of you you're obviously still in the wrong. It also ended the race for Perez while Russell in the end gained a position from his mistake. These are exactly the kind of statements that Horner would get a lot of flack for on here in my opinion.

Horner could make a statement about how to cure cancer and a dozen people in here would give him flack for smiling too much while doing it.
 
Michael Masi has left the FIA.

Should have been fired awhile ago. Will live on in infamy within motorsports circles for a long while yet.
 
I wonder if Ricardo has any regrets of leaving Renault for McLaren. He seemed on his way to a good thing with them and I don’t doubt he’d probably have multiple race wins by now (instead of the one with McLaren) if he’d stayed as they would have built the car around him.

McLaren were obviously building around Lando which was fine for the long term, but it appears that they’re continuing to do so despite Lando not really improving himself over the last few years. They’re now stuck with a proven race winner in a car that doesn’t suit and paying him an absolute fortune to race around mid-pack.
 
What do you lot think about Mercs response to Russell crashing into Perez? Haven't read much about it on here. Shovlin basically said "he was on the curb so he left enough space" and Wolff said "he had full steering lock so not much he could do" with both statements being half truths at best, apologetic bollocks at worst. You can be on the curb (he was at one point) and have full steering lock (he might have at one point) but if you carry too much speed, hit the curb too hard or accelerate out of the corner too hard and then bounce or understeer into an opponent who is ahead of you you're obviously still in the wrong. It also ended the race for Perez while Russell in the end gained a position from his mistake. These are exactly the kind of statements that Horner would get a lot of flack for on here in my opinion.

I think Russell has made a couple of mistakes which have had disastrous consequences for other drivers in the last 2 races. I don't think he should have had a disastrous punishment for them though because sometimes it's just bad luck that the consequences can be much more severe than the magnitude of the mistake. In fairness he also got disqualified for running over to see if he could help Zhou at Silverstone as well so I think he's actually been punished quite severely as it happens.

For me they go down as "one of those things" but you keep an eye on it. I'm not sure there's a body of evidence there that suggests he has had any malicious intentions or is a dangerous driver just yet. He's basically had impeccable races up to Silverstone in terms of mistakes or dangerous driving this season in my book.
 
I agree with Marko, we've seen a few drivers come unstuck there and Red Bull have the pace to dispatch Merc at other places on the track. It was foolish to try that move early on as you're asking a driver to make an impossible turn. Perhaps if you can get ahead much earlier in the lead up the other driver can make adjustments.
 
I wonder if Ricardo has any regrets of leaving Renault for McLaren. He seemed on his way to a good thing with them and I don’t doubt he’d probably have multiple race wins by now (instead of the one with McLaren) if he’d stayed as they would have built the car around him.

McLaren were obviously building around Lando which was fine for the long term, but it appears that they’re continuing to do so despite Lando not really improving himself over the last few years. They’re now stuck with a proven race winner in a car that doesn’t suit and paying him an absolute fortune to race around mid-pack.

Huh? He's consistently best of the rest and last year got 4 podiums and this year has one already which is consistently more than the drivers beneath him. Mclaren isn't better than Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull so the best he can do is mix it with all of these teams which he does.
 
I wonder if Ricardo has any regrets of leaving Renault for McLaren. He seemed on his way to a good thing with them and I don’t doubt he’d probably have multiple race wins by now (instead of the one with McLaren) if he’d stayed as they would have built the car around him.

McLaren were obviously building around Lando which was fine for the long term, but it appears that they’re continuing to do so despite Lando not really improving himself over the last few years. They’re now stuck with a proven race winner in a car that doesn’t suit and paying him an absolute fortune to race around mid-pack.
In hindsight it was a mistake. Lando has become Mclaren no1 driver. Although the car hasnt been great this season. Staying at Renualt might have been the better call, but its negligible either way. Neither team has done anything so far. I think Riccardo looked at Hamiltons move to Mercedes and was hoping for something similar with renault.

Personally i think Riccardo will be axed by McLaren at the end of this season.
 
Huh? He's consistently best of the rest and last year got 4 podiums and this year has one already which is consistently more than the drivers beneath him. Mclaren isn't better than Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull so the best he can do is mix it with all of these teams which he does.
:lol: mad isn't it. I really do wonder how people form their opinions sometimes. He's been the best driver outside Merc/RB/Ferrari for the last 2 seasons.

With luck more on his side he could have potentially won both Belgium and Russia last season. His defensive ability to hold off Hamilton earned Ricciardo a win and his team a 1-2 at Monza.

If Mclaren don't give him a proper car next year, I suspect he will be looking to replace Hamilton at Mercedes.
 
:lol: mad isn't it. I really do wonder how people form their opinions sometimes. He's been the best driver outside Merc/RB/Ferrari for the last 2 seasons.

With luck more on his side he could have potentially won both Belgium and Russia last season. His defensive ability to hold off Hamilton earned Ricciardo a win and his team a 1-2 at Monza.

If Mclaren don't give him a proper car next year, I suspect he will be looking to replace Hamilton at Mercedes.
I have Lando has best of the rest, his results have been pretty consistent.
I agree that if McLaren dont give him a good car, he will want off, to replace Lewis at Mercedes, its a possibility, but to be honest, I dont see Lewis hanging his driving boots up for 2 maybe 3 seasons yet.
 
I have Lando has best of the rest, his results have been pretty consistent.
I agree that if McLaren dont give him a good car, he will want off, to replace Lewis at Mercedes, its a possibility, but to be honest, I dont see Lewis hanging his driving boots up for 2 maybe 3 seasons yet.
I would take Ocon, Alonso, Vettel over him. But he is right there after them for sure, annoyingly!
 
I would take Ocon, Alonso, Vettel over him. But he is right there after them for sure, annoyingly!
Alonso i'll give you he's still right up there, but Ocon and Vettel :lol: ffs

They'll be lucky to both be in their own teams next year let alone ahead of Norris
 
Huh? He's consistently best of the rest and last year got 4 podiums and this year has one already which is consistently more than the drivers beneath him. Mclaren isn't better than Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull so the best he can do is mix it with all of these teams which he does.
I didn’t call him shit - but he’s not evolving. He’s not elevating that team in the same way George did with Williams. He’s consistent but a bit like Button, I don’t see the same spark/X factor. Just a solid driver.
 
Marshals at the Red Bull Ring have responded to criticism that they were late to the scene of Carlos Sainz' dramatic retirement during the Austrian Grand Prix after his Ferrari caught fire.

The F1-75 suffered a catastrophic engine failure while chasing down Max Verstappen for second place with 16 laps remaining.

He was forced to pull over and stop the car in turn 4, but as flames erupted form the back of the car Sainz found himself unable to climb free of the cockpit because of the need to keep his foot on the brakes.

He feared that if he didn't then the car would roll back down the incline and into the path of oncoming cars. Only as the marshals finally arrived with blocks to put under the wheels was he able to jump clear.

At the time, Sainz was clearly unhappy with how long he has been forced to wait in the burning car before the marshals arrived.

“I was calling the marshals to come and help me, to put something on the tyres to stop the car rolling down but I think the whole process was a bit slow," he said on the day.

"At some point, there was so much fire that I had to really get a move on and jump out independently. I think it was just at that time that the first marshal arrived and stopped the car."

The official safety crew at the circuit has now issued a statement explaining why the response had appeared slow, saying that all procedures had been followed correctly.

“After the terrible accident of Jules Bianchi in 2014, the FIA's rules regarding recoveries and interventions on the track have been drastically tightened,” the statement said.

Marshals at the Red Bull Ring have responded to criticism that they were late to the scene of Carlos Sainz' dramatic retirement during the Austrian Grand Prix after his Ferrari caught fire.

The F1-75 suffered a catastrophic engine failure while chasing down Max Verstappen for second place with 16 laps remaining.

He was forced to pull over and stop the car in turn 4, but as flames erupted form the back of the car Sainz found himself unable to climb free of the cockpit because of the need to keep his foot on the brakes

He feared that if he didn't then the car would roll back down the incline and into the path of oncoming cars. Only as the marshals finally arrived with blocks to put under the wheels was he able to jump clear.

At the time, Sainz was clearly unhappy with how long he has been forced to wait in the burning car before the marshals arrived.

“I was calling the marshals to come and help me, to put something on the tyres to stop the car rolling down but I think the whole process was a bit slow," he said on the day.

"At some point, there was so much fire that I had to really get a move on and jump out independently. I think it was just at that time that the first marshal arrived and stopped the car."

The official safety crew at the circuit has now issued a statement explaining why the response had appeared slow, saying that all procedures had been followed correctly.

“After the terrible accident of Jules Bianchi in 2014, the FIA's rules regarding recoveries and interventions on the track have been drastically tightened,” the statement said.



“Intervention is only allowed after instructions from race control.

"On the one hand, this naturally increases the safety of the drivers and marshals, but on the other hand, it has the disadvantage that interventions take a little longer.

“Several unfortunate circumstances came together,” it continued. “The place where Sainz parked the Ferrari was not visible from the marshals' stand.

"They received instructions over the radio to go to the car with fire extinguishers, and when they saw the situation, they made the decision to call in the fire engine.

“This decision had to be made within seconds and, in retrospect, was absolutely correct. If you remember Grosjean's accident [at Bahrain in 2020], in a situation like that, hand-held fire extinguishers are absolutely not enough.

"Therefore, the fire extinguisher was turned off and the car was
, which led to that unfortunate image on TV of the marshal 'running away'.

“Another problem was that Sainz, understandably, became nervous in the vehicle and went off the brakes too early. The wedge had to be pushed under the rolling vehicle, which of course made the whole thing extremely difficult.

“We had a fire engine on the scene in less than 30 seconds, which would have brought a fast-spreading fire under control.

"Since Grosjean's accident, it is very important for us to have a lot of 'extinguishing power' on the spot immediately in order to protect the driver in the best possible way.

Austria marshals explain slow response to Sainz fire (f1i.com)
 
completely agree with the marshalls. like with anything, you ignore the clear and present danger and you worry about what might happen and you cover off the worst possibility. like those brave uvalde policemen, bravely standing guard outside in case an even more deranged assailant turned up to kill even more kids or a doctor turned up and tried to let any of them get an abortion.