Max Verstappen Superstar.
F1 2022 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
I bet there not the only ones either.
not the way lewis would have wanted to win his 8th world championship.
Singapore GP FP 2 Time Sheet
Timesheets still retarded. Always 1 step forward 2 steps back with this American ownership.
Latifi 
The sooner he's gone the better.
The sooner he's gone the better.After Christian Horner remained adamant that Red Bull had not gone over the cost cap, Mercedes Team Principal Toto Wolff was quick to respond that Horner's team are being investigated
Here is what they could face if found in breach of the regulations:
"Funny that Christian (Horner) has said that because it has been weeks and months that they are being investigated," said Wolff.
"He mustn't speak to his CFO.
"All of us have been investigated thoroughly and, as we understand, a team is being investigated for a minor breach which is procedural and another team that is fundamentally massively over.
"That is an open secret in the paddock.
"I think there is a governance in place that is very solid that the FIA have set up and you are going to be issued a certificate of compliance and if you are not compliant it goes to the cost cap adjudication panel.
"Then the panel judges and they can choose from these penalties the appropriate one.
"The crucial part is that if you have been over in 2021 then you have been over in 2022 and that means you have an advantage into 2023.
"This is heavyweight stuff.
"We are using used parts, we are not running what we want to run, we are not developing what we could be developing.
"We have made more than 40 people redundant in our organisation and it was a huge, mammoth operation to make the cap.
"I don't know how many tens of millions we had to restructure and reprocess to be below the cap and if someone has been not doing that or pushing the boundaries then every million is a massive disadvantage.
"It is not for me to judge what the penalties could be, the judges have all that scope to analyse but I wouldn't want to be in their position given the impact over three years."
Here is what they could face if found in breach of the regulations:
"Funny that Christian (Horner) has said that because it has been weeks and months that they are being investigated," said Wolff.
"He mustn't speak to his CFO.
"All of us have been investigated thoroughly and, as we understand, a team is being investigated for a minor breach which is procedural and another team that is fundamentally massively over.
"That is an open secret in the paddock.
"I think there is a governance in place that is very solid that the FIA have set up and you are going to be issued a certificate of compliance and if you are not compliant it goes to the cost cap adjudication panel.
"Then the panel judges and they can choose from these penalties the appropriate one.
"The crucial part is that if you have been over in 2021 then you have been over in 2022 and that means you have an advantage into 2023.
"This is heavyweight stuff.
"We are using used parts, we are not running what we want to run, we are not developing what we could be developing.
"We have made more than 40 people redundant in our organisation and it was a huge, mammoth operation to make the cap.
"I don't know how many tens of millions we had to restructure and reprocess to be below the cap and if someone has been not doing that or pushing the boundaries then every million is a massive disadvantage.
"It is not for me to judge what the penalties could be, the judges have all that scope to analyse but I wouldn't want to be in their position given the impact over three years."
it’s only light treason.
Budget is not in the drivers' hands, but so is a lot of car development - and car development does determine their performance to a very large extent. So if Red Bull went over budget and spent more money on car improvements than they had a right to, then maybe Verstappen had a better car than he should have had, and should have finished one or two spots lower in races a few times. (Although: didn't Red Bull largely stop developing their care in the latter half of last season? And not sure who Verstappen would have lost positions to outside Hamilton.)
Not that I see it happening, especially not after that mess. But it would be rather hilarious if, after all that, the championship were now taken from Verstappen and Hamilton would get his eighth retroactively. Well, hilarious and sad.
Well, it would still be the same number of championships with an asterisk. Maybe rather the most asterisk'd championship in history: 2021**
They are going to make Massi the judge and he is going to ban Hamilton for 2023, make merc run this years car forever and retrospectively give max all of Hamilton's titlesAfter Christian Horner remained adamant that Red Bull had not gone over the cost cap, Mercedes Team Principal Toto Wolff was quick to respond that Horner's team are being investigated
Here is what they could face if found in breach of the regulations:
"Funny that Christian (Horner) has said that because it has been weeks and months that they are being investigated," said Wolff.
"He mustn't speak to his CFO.
"All of us have been investigated thoroughly and, as we understand, a team is being investigated for a minor breach which is procedural and another team that is fundamentally massively over.
"That is an open secret in the paddock.
"I think there is a governance in place that is very solid that the FIA have set up and you are going to be issued a certificate of compliance and if you are not compliant it goes to the cost cap adjudication panel.
"Then the panel judges and they can choose from these penalties the appropriate one.
"The crucial part is that if you have been over in 2021 then you have been over in 2022 and that means you have an advantage into 2023.
"This is heavyweight stuff.
"We are using used parts, we are not running what we want to run, we are not developing what we could be developing.
"We have made more than 40 people redundant in our organisation and it was a huge, mammoth operation to make the cap.
"I don't know how many tens of millions we had to restructure and reprocess to be below the cap and if someone has been not doing that or pushing the boundaries then every million is a massive disadvantage.
"It is not for me to judge what the penalties could be, the judges have all that scope to analyse but I wouldn't want to be in their position given the impact over three years."
Latifi
1.4 seconds behind a guy who nearly died 3 weeks ago, great stuff Goatifi.
Does anybody really think Max will have his win taken away from him ?
Lewis would not want to win his 8th in that fashion.
I can see the point @Cheimoon is making, drivers dont control the budget , but over spending does give them the better car.
This is going to be a minefield for the FIA.
This will overshadow the rest of the season.
Lewis would not want to win his 8th in that fashion.
I can see the point @Cheimoon is making, drivers dont control the budget , but over spending does give them the better car.
This is going to be a minefield for the FIA.
This will overshadow the rest of the season.
I much prefer C4 presenters David Coulthard, Lee Mckenzie, Mark Webber and Billy Monger, a nice group that add a lot, only problem is the actual coverage of the event is limited due to sprint races and American time zones making C4 push quali to Sunday morning.
If I had the money for Sky I would still be very reluctant and would still prefer watching C4 highlights with the interviews and thoughts of David and Mark. I like Martin Brundle on Sky but the rest I could do without, they taint the package. Maybe some have gone but Lazenby Herbert Croft spoil it.
Ideally it would be nice to just get a few more live races on C4 (preferably some evening races) and not get the FTA coverage of quali nerfed. The Sky F1 package is simply not attractive enough and before it went to a paywall I found myself more and more recording races/quali if it was a nice afternoon and watch a few hours later and also recorded early morning races.
i think the only realistic punishment here is for horner and verstappen to be humanely destroyed.
I'm going to guess that if red bull thought hey were doing things right last season they will have continued doing the same thing this season (or more likey if they thought they could get away with it last season they will be getting away with it this season as well) - several teams have already questioned RB's spending this season as well so could overshadow next season as well because of course they get to keep the data and developments from the overspend as well.
No doubt redbull will go legal in their defence as well so yeah it could drag on for a long long time ... or untill they just change the rules and let them win (again)
I mean I'm ok with humanely destroying Max but dos it really have to be humanely with Horner?... I for one would be happy to pay a bit extra if it wasn't humanely for a PPV
Would be surprised if a company like Red Bull couldn't sort out it's accounting especially given who they are owned by. Still they could not turn up to the grid a few races and still win both championships.
Very rarely do these things end up affecting the driver, you just have to look back at other controversies like crashgate and spygate, Alonso kept his win from Singapore, and only McLaren got punished with not being able to score constructors points and a fine.
So I think red bull will be punished, but more than likely not Max.
From BBC sport, article about RedBull.
"...Teams regard it as an open secret that there has been both a major and a minor breach. At least one team has been given that information direct from the FIA.
And there is concern that the FIA will try to reduce the offence to a minor one to limit the damage to the championship..."
Red Bull and the FIA are known to have been in conversation on the matter of compliance with the budget cap for some time
"...Teams regard it as an open secret that there has been both a major and a minor breach. At least one team has been given that information direct from the FIA.
And there is concern that the FIA will try to reduce the offence to a minor one to limit the damage to the championship..."
Red Bull and the FIA are known to have been in conversation on the matter of compliance with the budget cap for some time
Thats what makes it so bizzare. Best car on the grid easily. Theres no down to the wire championship, so why be so stupid unless you did it on purpose knowing the knowledge gained on track for next season (perez has been running experimental floors), would be worth any minor fine or deduction in points.
I mean last year and this year, making two!
Seems like we're in the minority but I like Sky's F1 coverage. I think it's one of the few sports they do pretty well in.
It’s good coverage. It just massively reduces the view base at the cost of long term harm to the sport
Lots of us grew up watching F1 on free tv in the UK. If it wasn’t free back then I wouldn’t have been able to watch it. Things change with streaming but that’s still a barrier.
If (big if) Red Bull are found guilty of breaching the cap and if (even bigger if) they get punished then they should get every punishment in the book thrown at them. Cheating shits. That being said they will then appeal it for years anyway.
As regards Lewis not wanting an 8th title due to it being stripped I think he might just be ok with it considering how it was robbed from him in the first place.
Every other team would stand to gain as well so they will all be for Red Bull getting booted out of the championships and every other punishment possible.
On a side note Sky keeping the rights is great news. Their coverage has been immense since day one.
As regards Lewis not wanting an 8th title due to it being stripped I think he might just be ok with it considering how it was robbed from him in the first place.
Every other team would stand to gain as well so they will all be for Red Bull getting booted out of the championships and every other punishment possible.
On a side note Sky keeping the rights is great news. Their coverage has been immense since day one.
I agree. I see comments here saying it wouldn't be fair to strip Max of the title but at the same time he most likely wouldn't have won if they didn't breach the cost cap (nevermind the shit at the end of the season).
I seriously doubt it'll happen however
That does make two, but what's asteriskable (surely a real word) about this year?
I totally misread todays issue. Didnt realise that 2021 season both RB and AM were alledgly in excess of the budget cap. Now it makes sense why people are going on about lewis not wanting a 8th title like this. I did wonder what people were on about as hes sixth in this yeara championship at present.
If RB are found guilty of exceeding last years budget, all hell will break loose. FIA will want to cover it up as much as possible i.e. damage control for the sport. Mercedes will rightfully be furious and want RB punished. After all its a double whammy for them. Masi making up rules and the RB car being illegal as RB broke the budget cap.
I think FIA will cover it all up somehow. Max needs to go to a different team not to have his career tainted with RB cheating.
If RB are found guilty of exceeding last years budget, all hell will break loose. FIA will want to cover it up as much as possible i.e. damage control for the sport. Mercedes will rightfully be furious and want RB punished. After all its a double whammy for them. Masi making up rules and the RB car being illegal as RB broke the budget cap.
I think FIA will cover it all up somehow. Max needs to go to a different team not to have his career tainted with RB cheating.
Agreed, it's the last thing the FIA will want, if the teams have access to the data it'll probably be court cases for years unless the FIA do something. Massi making an incorrect decision is one thing, but provable (and rule breaking) cost overruns are very different if it has happened.
If there is foul play of the constructor in the lead then it'll be something like Ferrari's undisclosed punishment in 2019 from the FIA.
As I said above, I think they will punish them if they have done it but I think it'll be only the constructors, like either points deduction or disqualification. I just can't see them punishing the drivers here, even though I'm on the fence myself about whether they should or not.
Like it or not the FIA won't want red bull throwing a strop and leaving the sport if they punish them to severely.
Tax tax tax supr supr tax .
Dunno why I typed that but is vaguely financially related .
Dunno why I typed that but is vaguely financially related .
Because money spent in 2021 was used to develop the 2022 car.
It's been absolutely pissing it down in Singapore all day. It's slowing now and it dries here quick cos of the heat, but the weather here is so unpredictable it must be a nightmare for the strategists.
They have an opportunity here to fix the one of the most controversal moment in sporting history and correct an injustice.
Remove RB from last years Abu Dhabi race results as a punishment for exceeding the spending limit by $7mil dollars. Remove both RB drivers from that race result. Award the title to the rightful winner of that championship i.e. hamilton.
Max has pretty much won this years already, so this year becomes his first world title.
Then also remove a percentage of wind tunnel and cfd design time for next season or make RB pay a fine of say $20mil and give that money to the other teams and allow them to add it to ther budget for next season for developing their car.
That should be sufficent punishment to stop others repeating what RB have done. Otherwise the budget cap is dead in the water.
Unfortunately FIA wont do any of this, as it would damage the sport or some other bullshit.
As for FIA being concerned about RB leaving, call their bluff. Porsche is waiting in the wings to take a majority control in RB and Honda are interested in returning. Plus FIA dont really want independent teams like Haas, Andretti racing etc on the grid, they'd much prefer car manufacturers instead, that much is obvious.
OR just kick them out of this years championship, both drivers and the team. Then whoever finishes 2nd in the drivers table (behind a disqualified max) will be champion. That will be a grandstand finish to the season.
Breaking the budget cap is analogous to sporting doping. The amount in question is eqiuvalent to a season of car development according to bbcf1. Maximum punishments must be implemented othewrise the integrity of the sport will be questioned again so soon.
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I don’t think that retrospective point penalties would be good for the sport. I know that it probably makes sense to do that from a competitive point of view but it would be a foolish decision for f1 to change results now all these months down the line
But this is stupid. Plenty of sports strip winners of those wins if they are found to be cheating.
Doping a classic example. Not quite the same but agree with the post above that it’s a decent comparator.
The FIA are going to not want to rock the boat much so they’ll probably find a way to make this go away. But, actually, if RB have indeed breached it significantly, I personally can’t see many disadvantages here of taking serious action which changes last years results. It fixes a wrong, it immediately solidifies the integrity of the sport, it acts as a significant deterrent to other teams, all which they would give up for what? Not changing a result? Not upsetting the new influx of orange fans? And not upsetting red bull? To me there are more benefits of coming down hard, than not, if indeed it’s as bad as rumoured. If this somehow goes away, it doubles down on all the issues that the end of last season already created.
RB are hypocrites and always have been. They try to play the good guys and have a history of finger pointing towards the other teams. Yet they are the masters of smoke & mirrors, always bending rules and are sour losers to boot. Nothing against their drivers & mechanics etc, it’s more aimed against the management. And they’re not the only team that turns to the darker arts of course. But it’s about time RB are called out for what they are.