I was just thinking about the impeding referendum in the UK actually brew.
Rightly or wrongly I wonder how these attacks will influence voters here.
Explosions reported at Brussels airport.
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
- Start date
I was just thinking about the impeding referendum in the UK actually brew.
Rightly or wrongly I wonder how these attacks will influence voters here.
I think youve missed off a very important one: the birth of the modern media. TV stations give endless exposure to the incident, which is like free advertising as far as terrorists are concerned - the more attention it gets, the better the result. Newspapers also run endless stories about it. People Tweet about it, discuss it on football message boards and anywhere else people cluster to talk.
This comes back to motive but the media gives them plenty either way. I would say in many cases, the people doing these things arent doing it to further any specific political goals. It isnt about getting Israel out of Palestine, for example, or the US out of Iraq or Europe out of Syria. Its just because some people want to feel important, like they have accomplished something, and doing something big like this, that is talked about for days and weeks and months after, probably makes them feel special. Maybe they are religious and feel they will get a first class ticket to heaven, or maybe they arent, particularly, but like having an excuse to blow things up.
There will of course also be people who are doing it for political reasons and will say what they are doing is justified as a means to an end - any of the above mentioned issues, and many more, could motivate someone. For those people too, media coverage only makes terrorism more appealing. While 95% of the coverage will be about how vile the terrorists are but in there will also be debate about what the West can do to address any legitimate grievances people might have that is turning them to terrorism.
But even then this wouldn't help. If you have security checks at airport or train station at the entrance doors, people will line up there and any suicide bomber would just walk into this line and execute his/her evil plan from there.
It's an inconvenient truth but you simply can't protect yourself or others against those situations.
Yeah fine, hidden enemy and all, but its just a bit of a wierd and unnecessary comparison. I wont derail the thread further.
That free movement will come under increasing pressure, it was already under a lot from the refugee crisis but things like this will up the ante. There is a careful balancing act between security and freedom and each attack chips away at European tolerance and strengthens the case for enacting measures that will make Europe a police / surveillance state.
Aye. Economically we need to get out, but in terms of security we should probably stay together for at last the foreseeable future. IS et al hitting the Union at its very heart while its vulnerable, divide and conquer innit.
Reports circulating about the attackers being Belorussians. Odd.
I'm sat in Heathrow airport waiting for a flight to LA right now. Feel awful for the people at Brussels. Also crapping it more than I have on any flight before.
I'm sorry but that's pathetic. Suicide bombers don't their belts in rucksacks; they wear it around their bodies. You can hide explosive device in a handbag.And now the Police are taking down people with rucksacks at Gare du Nord......saying they are taking no risks:
If they feel the urge to demonstrate to the public they are doing something, they should control everybody with and without any type of luggage.
Yeah you are spot on however I think people here will pick up on the free travel within the EU and want to steer clear due to what IS is doing.
In my opinion it makes no odds, we will always be in a stronger position due to not being landlocked.
We don't exactly have open borders here in the UK though like the schengen region. The security is still extremely tight to come into the UK from one of the EU states.
I agree, but alot of the public won't look at that and simply think "they are bombing the EU states, lets keep out"
Feck me. I was just in Brussels/Leuven last week, thankfully I was out of the city when that other scrote was caught. Flew home on Thursday though. Creepy.
Meanwhile one of my best mates was in Istanbul for the last week. He got home safe the day after the bombing there.
I know it's what those pricks want but nowhere feels safe lately
Meanwhile one of my best mates was in Istanbul for the last week. He got home safe the day after the bombing there.
I know it's what those pricks want but nowhere feels safe lately
None of these points make much sense.
I hope our Belgian members, their families and friends are all safe and sound. My thoughts go out to the victims and their families and loved ones. Awful that yet another atrocity had to occur but you knew they'd retaliate for the capture of Abdesalam.
Short of nuking the Middle East (I'm aware of the awful thought of massive collateral damage on innocent lives, but seen as we can't make a distinction and everyone is a suspect from that area in these times then....) and making the whole area (and most of Africa too) completely uninhabitable wasteland with no population whatsoever, there isn't much of a message we can send to these people to get them to stop. I'm aware this wouldn't solve all the cells in Europe, the USA and Asia but it might actually get them to look up and think, well shit, we can't really win this.
They want a caliphate state (they've already declared it), if we say to them 'okay, you can have a Caliphate state, complete with your Sharia law and everything you need and we'll just leave you well alone' then eventually they'll have to expand as the Caliphate demands, their ultimate goal is either rule the world with everywhere a Caliphate under their laws and everyone who doesn't abide by it dead or a slave or to make it to the point whereby we get ground forces to go up against them and they believe that final war will bring about the apocalypse and only the worthy will survive afterwards. That's not grounded in logic, it's grounded in fantasy so there's no rational, safe way of dealing with people this far gone.
We can't press our ways and our democracy on them, it's never worked before and it'll never work in the future. We can't reason with them because they're completely unreasonable and inflexible and won't listen to our side and we can't stop them from carrying on their wave of destruction until they feel the prophecy has been fulfilled (the end-game war to bring about the apocalypse). We need to stop being soft and face the facts. We either get rid of anyone that could be a terrorist and completely ruin our morals as a human race or we bow to them and let them take over, there is absolutely no middle ground whatsoever.
We won't nuke the Middle East into oblivion and quite rightly so but bloody hell, there's nothing we can do powerful enough otherwise. It's going to be like this until something truly major happens and it finally escalates to that point anyway. They won't stop until they rule the world so we've got to wipe them and anyone even remotely connected to them off the face of the planet.
I'm aware this sounds massively overreactive and completely horrible from a human rights point of view but these people aren't humans on the same level as us. They're medieval in their ways and they want to drag us all back several centuries and live a life that just isn't compatible with us at all. We need to be just as brutal back to them.
Short of nuking the Middle East (I'm aware of the awful thought of massive collateral damage on innocent lives, but seen as we can't make a distinction and everyone is a suspect from that area in these times then....) and making the whole area (and most of Africa too) completely uninhabitable wasteland with no population whatsoever, there isn't much of a message we can send to these people to get them to stop. I'm aware this wouldn't solve all the cells in Europe, the USA and Asia but it might actually get them to look up and think, well shit, we can't really win this.
They want a caliphate state (they've already declared it), if we say to them 'okay, you can have a Caliphate state, complete with your Sharia law and everything you need and we'll just leave you well alone' then eventually they'll have to expand as the Caliphate demands, their ultimate goal is either rule the world with everywhere a Caliphate under their laws and everyone who doesn't abide by it dead or a slave or to make it to the point whereby we get ground forces to go up against them and they believe that final war will bring about the apocalypse and only the worthy will survive afterwards. That's not grounded in logic, it's grounded in fantasy so there's no rational, safe way of dealing with people this far gone.
We can't press our ways and our democracy on them, it's never worked before and it'll never work in the future. We can't reason with them because they're completely unreasonable and inflexible and won't listen to our side and we can't stop them from carrying on their wave of destruction until they feel the prophecy has been fulfilled (the end-game war to bring about the apocalypse). We need to stop being soft and face the facts. We either get rid of anyone that could be a terrorist and completely ruin our morals as a human race or we bow to them and let them take over, there is absolutely no middle ground whatsoever.
We won't nuke the Middle East into oblivion and quite rightly so but bloody hell, there's nothing we can do powerful enough otherwise. It's going to be like this until something truly major happens and it finally escalates to that point anyway. They won't stop until they rule the world so we've got to wipe them and anyone even remotely connected to them off the face of the planet.
I'm aware this sounds massively overreactive and completely horrible from a human rights point of view but these people aren't humans on the same level as us. They're medieval in their ways and they want to drag us all back several centuries and live a life that just isn't compatible with us at all. We need to be just as brutal back to them.
So in your view it is sensible to go after people wearing rucksacks although suicide bombers don't need any luggage? I just hope you are not involved in any security-related activities in any country.
A tragedy. It's only a matter of time before Germany & the UK gets hit.
Sadly this is true.
Our intelligence services and security forces are actually very, very good at stopping threats from escalating to attacks but eventually another will slip through the net and innocent lives will be lost in the process.
Horrible for the victims and their families. RIP
However this is what happens when you attack people's culture whether you agree with it or not. People in the Middle East are living through these kind of atrocities daily and the "enlightened" Westerners have to take some of the blame. We have messed around in that region, chosen sides that suit us and turned a blind eye to the nations that suit us. It will get better as the years go on but it takes time. Look at Ireland 20-30 years ago to now, we came a long long way but there is still a minority on both sides with extreme views.
The West attacked lands who they didn't fully understand and done it without any foresight. We are simply repeating history. Hold Germany down after WW1 and you create scenarios for extremists to rise. Support for the 1916 Rising was minimal until the UK started to execute the leaders. We played games to suit us in the Middle East and because the media is so biased we can't possibly grasp the life that some have to lead out there. Or perhaps we simply don't care because they are 'different' from us.
Ours is a money driven society which has a lot of it own flaws. "Shit don't change till you get up and was your ass".
However this is what happens when you attack people's culture whether you agree with it or not. People in the Middle East are living through these kind of atrocities daily and the "enlightened" Westerners have to take some of the blame. We have messed around in that region, chosen sides that suit us and turned a blind eye to the nations that suit us. It will get better as the years go on but it takes time. Look at Ireland 20-30 years ago to now, we came a long long way but there is still a minority on both sides with extreme views.
The West attacked lands who they didn't fully understand and done it without any foresight. We are simply repeating history. Hold Germany down after WW1 and you create scenarios for extremists to rise. Support for the 1916 Rising was minimal until the UK started to execute the leaders. We played games to suit us in the Middle East and because the media is so biased we can't possibly grasp the life that some have to lead out there. Or perhaps we simply don't care because they are 'different' from us.
Ours is a money driven society which has a lot of it own flaws. "Shit don't change till you get up and was your ass".
I can empathize. Off to Cyprus in April which is a stones throw from the Syrian coast and I'm a little apprehensive about it. Had loads of people saying to me "you'll be fine" "Cyprus is not a danger hotspot" "foreign office advice is to travel" etc, but they have to strike somewhere, and where better than a mecca for Brit tourists. I'd say places with poor security and masses of holidaying Brits are probably at more risk than anyone in mainland Britain. It's all irrational fear, as what are the chances of my resort being hit while I'm there, or is it a justified fear? Dunno. Bricking it myself a touch as well tbh
News like this doesn't shock me anymore. It's terrible.
I was meant to be going to Brussels for a day in a week or so. Definitely not going now.
I was meant to be going to Brussels for a day in a week or so. Definitely not going now.
Oh yeah definitely. Globalisation and all that.
Let's not forget about the "Call Brussels" campaign.
https://call.brussels/
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/call-brussels-tourism-campaign/
Not sure to what end though, but its just something to think about.
https://call.brussels/
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/call-brussels-tourism-campaign/
Not sure to what end though, but its just something to think about.
Their problem is they think EVERYONE should live in a caliphate they do.
Their interpretation of their scripture is that their job is to spread their religion by any means necessary.
Considering neither of those two options stated are going to happen, you haven't left many other options on the table. The reality is, not only will they not happen, governments will continue to fumble foreign policy when it comes to the Middle East, ultimately resulting in a protracted conflict that both sides lose out in.
As awful as the West's middle-east policy may be let's not pretend that's the driving force behind these attacks. Your post might as well be copy&pasted from extremist propaganda. This has little to no resemblance to WW1, which was a war between nations. No middle eastern nation is going to declare war on us, this is a bunch of morons who are fighting for a flawed moral imperative. And the reason they're doing it is because they've bought this the west is the root of all evil propaganda. Europe is far more accommodating of muslims than most muslim nations are. It's really sickening that these arseholes would attack a place that gives people almost every opportunity they could ask for.
.."Ours is a money driven society".. Yeah, like all the other ones. Good god man.
The more these attacks happen is the closer the folks in the US get to calling Donald Trump "President Trump"
Throughout that post you are talking about "them" and "they". Who are "they"? People in the Middle-East? Refugees? My muslim neighbours who are 3rd or 4th generation Belgian citizens? Are you advocating a genocide against all muslims? I find this type of post deeply disturbing.
I was just in Leuven, staying in the Irish institute. Lovely spot
It's probably going to be the safest place in the world for the next couple of weeks.
Definitely understand why you won't be coming though, would do exactly the same if I were you.
Most of them have not a clue about Islam. They abuse it to justify their criminal violence.
He & the "Out" campaign feast on shite like this. It's saddening that they can benefit from such nonsense.
I read "they" to be "terrorists".
Really what? Hitchens pointing out the blatantly obvious - essentially that extremists need to be confronted head on or ignored - doesn't automatically exonerate the west of all its actions in that region.
I think the masses have already made up their minds. Well most of the ones I know have and thats out.
Nowhere near tight enough. Thanks to France's ineffective policy of dealing with illegal immigrants who set up camps in the north of their country we must welcome in a new batch of illegals every day. Border force are only able to check a small percentage of trucks yet find on average about 40 every day/wk. (Not sure whether it's day or week) Goodness knows who is in those trucks that do get through or what their ulterior motive for coming here is. Any of them could be potential suicide or bomb attackers. Not only that but as they "don't officially exist" we can't keep an eye on them. They are well under the intelligence radar.
Yeah, I'll wait and see what the other guys say but I can't say I particularly fancy it now.
I give it by the end of the day before there's someone from the out campaign using this.
The region/religion was fecked to begin with, regardless whether the West intervenes or doesn't intervene.
My guess is that you'd blame the west for either.
These people aren't for revenge against the West, they are for world domination. The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.