Even with Pogba, are there enough goals in squad to challenge for the league?

marlowe78 said:
I'm really having a hard time seeing the uptick in goals that's being talked about. We all complained about the 4231 that LVG used last season, which was tumescent, and it looks like Mourinho will be lining us up the same way. The difference seems to be that one of the two holding MF (looks to be Herrera) will play a freer role than the other but I am not convinced that this setup, with the players we currently have, will make any kind of improvement to playing with pace and making it easier for our attackers to get behind the opposition. Our best ball-playing MF still appears to be Carrick and he is due for retirement.

I think Ibra will be a good signing for his experience but he is really the complete opposite of what I would've had as a striker, I would rather have taken a player in Vardy's mold who can work the line of defence and create openings on the counterattack. I just don't see Ibra scoring anywhere near 25-30 goals in this league with this setup. Like other people have been saying, our best formation looks to be 433, with Martial and Miki/Rashford as the wide players and Ibra central, which would take some of the pressure off Ibra to find position in front of goal.

We will also not be with the glut of possession like last season so our defenders will have to defend a lot more. Is our defensive squad good enough to do this? I think this might be the deciding factor of the season. I would really have felt more comfortable if we signed another CB/FB (while also keeping CBJ on the squad) and cleared out Jones and Rojo.
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We've added a seasoned goalscorer in Ibra. At absolute worst he's worth 10 goals but like I said in my prediction 15-22 goals would come as little surprise. Plus we've added a very creative midfielder and will also see more of Martial and Rashford. We're also forgetting the imminent arrival of our CM (Pogba) who might not get many goals himself but is incredibly creative something our midfield has lacked centrally.

I think to say you'd want the complete opposite of Ibra is very concerning. Our play style is likely going to be us attacking for large portions of a game. I don't like the perception that Mourinho is always defensive, he's not he defends against teams he knows are better than him and attacks the weaker ones. I think this defensive perception is why you'd prefer Vardy, who is inherently a counter attacker. His game is completely ill suited to what we are going to face in the majority of league games. It is why he didn't join Arsenal.

Also RE Ibra, I don't think anyone can seriously expect any player to score 25-30 PL goals on a debut season so straight away I don't think that can be put forward as an argument/point/criticism by implication it suggests you think Vardy would have a better chance to do so? If so that is something I would very strongly argue against. In last years Leicester he was perfectly suited to their sit deeper attack with pace style, I feel even this season will make it a lot harder for Vardy as teams know what to expect.

I proved in another post that actually to have an 80+ goal season you need a 20 goal man, a 14 goal man and a 10 goal man to stand a chance (this surprised me) and I feel we have between Ibra, Martial, Rooney and Rashford, players who can do that.

Not having as much possession will also arguably suit our team better. It creates and encourages faster transitions which with Martial and Mkhitaryan should be easy to set off out wide (Mkhitaryan isn't slow and anyone who thinks he is should research his sprinting background!). It also means we will sometimes need a player able to hold the ball up and slow things down, Ibrahimovic is perfect for that and much more.
 
have to admit I'm woried and I dont see Pogba get too many anyway
 
I think we have enough goals. The main problem last season was the fact that LVG's tactics didn't suit an attacking team. In my opinion our players could easily get:

Ibra : 15-20
Martial : 10-15
Mhikitaryan : 10
Rooney : 10
Rashford : 8-10 (Depending on number of games etc)
Mata : 8-10 (If he plays)
Pogba : 8-10

Also other players will weigh in with a few goals here and there. A lot depends on our style of play rather than being a case of our players not being good enough to score a lot of goals.
 
I fully expect Ibrahamovic to get 20+ goals this season and Rooney to get at least 15 if he's playing as a 10 or up top all season as Jose has said.

Martial will get more than last season and I wouldn't be surprised if he got 20 this season, Rashford will score double what he did and the fact he terrorises defences into panic mode when running at them means he's likely to create a lot too for others.

Mhkitaryan will probably score 10+ then there's Lingard, Herrera, Mata and Depay all around too who will probably chip in with 20 between them and all this is before you factor in Pogba and also goals from set plays from our defenders.
 
I have no doubts current team plus Pogba can score enough. My only worry is we rely on Rooney in #10 position. I think it will happen but not for long.
 
There's really no reason our current team + Pogba shouldn't be able to score plenty of goals. Yes there are still some weaknesses in the team, but we have some very good players and if we're attack minded against the lower teams we should be able to thrash a few of them. There's only so long we can keep making excuses and saying we need to spend more money and buy this or that player before our team is good enough. I accept that it'll take some time for Mourinho to get the team playing the way he wants, but if we struggle to score to the extent we did last season then I'll not be able to accept that. We need to start producing better football and showing a certain degree of dominance again.
 
The more time goes on the more I think this side will struggle to get anywhere near the title. I made a thread before the start of last season saying I was worried we wouldn't get top 4 and got slated for it.....we didn't get top 4. If we are going to be playing Rooney at number 10/attacking midfield all season then I would be worried we may actually miss out on top 4 again.

I do think our attack is good enough to challenge if we have Mhkitaryan at attacking midfield or number 10 with Martial, Ibra and Rashford ahead of him, so it would be more of a 4-3-3 without the number 10 role. But I still feel we lack that player in our midfield that can dictate play and take hold of the game on his own. Even with Pogba. He is a great player no doubt but isn't one to control a game like say a Scholes would have previously or a Modric would today. Carrick can't really do it either anymore so I feel we are lacking in that sense and think this might be the missing link that stops our attacking flair players from getting the right service needed to perform at their best. Therefore possibly leading to the lack of goals the OP mentioned.
 
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BringNaniBack said:
The more time goes on the more I think this side will struggle to get anywhere near the title. I made a thread before the start of last season saying I was worried we wouldn't get top 4 and got slated for it.....we didn't get top 4. If we are going to be playing Rooney at number 10/attacking midfield all season then I would be worried we may actually miss out on top 4 again.

I do think our attack is good enough to challenge if we have Mhkitaryan at attacking midfield or number 10 with Martial, Ibra and Rashford ahead of him, so it would be more of a 4-3-3 without the number 10 role. But I still feel we lack that player in our midfield that can dictate play and take hold of the game on his own. Even with Pogba. He is a great player no doubt but isn't one to control a game like say a Scholes would have previously or a Modric would today. Carrick can't really do it either anymore so I feel we are lacking in that sense and think this might be the missing link that stops our attacking flair players from getting the right service needed to perform at their best. Therefore possibly leading to the lack of goals the OP mentioned.
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How many of those players are in the EPL though? I don't think lack of "dictator" will be an obstacle this season.
 
(If Pogba comes) I wouldn't really expect to see him banging in goals tbh, I think Mou will use him to strengthen what was a pretty frail CM from last season. good in the air defensively/offensively, great engine, good range of passing and with goal threat - although I think Mou will limit how far forward he gets.

Given it looks like we will be playing at least 4 of Martial, Ibra, Rooney, Miki, Rashford, Lingard, Depay, Mata there should be goals enough there and then a few from the likes of Herrera, Pogba, Scheiderlin and the Defenders to complement.

If we can get Ibra firing and bring Rooney back to some kind of form - goals won't be an issue
 
Borys said:
How many of those players are in the EPL though? I don't think lack of "dictator" will be an obstacle this season.
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You're right there aren't many and that's another reason I think that missing cog could be the difference between us winning the league or just being in a battle for top 4.
 
So who's the ideal partner for Pogba in midfield from the current options in the squad?
 
Pogba cannot be played in a DM role - to get the best out of him he has to push forward.

I like a 4-1-2-2-1

Valencia-Smalling-Bailly-Shaw

Carrick

Schneiderlin-Herrera

Mikitaryan-Pogba

Zlatan

Martial and Rashford interchangable with the front 3.
 
Dans said:
Pogba cannot be played in a DM role - to get the best out of him he has to push forward.

I like a 4-1-2-2-1

Valencia-Smalling-Bailly-Shaw

Carrick

Schneiderlin-Herrera

Mikitaryan-Pogba

Zlatan

Martial and Rashford interchangable with the front 3.
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We should be playing Pogba in a 4-3-3 with one DM and 2 more attacking box to box mids ie Pogba and Herrera/Mikhitarian/Rooney. Behind Martial, Ibra, Rashford.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
We've added a seasoned goalscorer in Ibra. At absolute worst he's worth 10 goals but like I said in my prediction 15-22 goals would come as little surprise. Plus we've added a very creative midfielder and will also see more of Martial and Rashford. We're also forgetting the imminent arrival of our CM (Pogba) who might not get many goals himself but is incredibly creative something our midfield has lacked centrally.

I think to say you'd want the complete opposite of Ibra is very concerning. Our play style is likely going to be us attacking for large portions of a game. I don't like the perception that Mourinho is always defensive, he's not he defends against teams he knows are better than him and attacks the weaker ones. I think this defensive perception is why you'd prefer Vardy, who is inherently a counter attacker. His game is completely ill suited to what we are going to face in the majority of league games. It is why he didn't join Arsenal.

Also RE Ibra, I don't think anyone can seriously expect any player to score 25-30 PL goals on a debut season so straight away I don't think that can be put forward as an argument/point/criticism by implication it suggests you think Vardy would have a better chance to do so? If so that is something I would very strongly argue against. In last years Leicester he was perfectly suited to their sit deeper attack with pace style, I feel even this season will make it a lot harder for Vardy as teams know what to expect.

I proved in another post that actually to have an 80+ goal season you need a 20 goal man, a 14 goal man and a 10 goal man to stand a chance (this surprised me) and I feel we have between Ibra, Martial, Rooney and Rashford, players who can do that.

Not having as much possession will also arguably suit our team better. It creates and encourages faster transitions which with Martial and Mkhitaryan should be easy to set off out wide (Mkhitaryan isn't slow and anyone who thinks he is should research his sprinting background!). It also means we will sometimes need a player able to hold the ball up and slow things down, Ibrahimovic is perfect for that and much more.
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Jose Mourinho also said in his interviews, he needs the team quicker more dominating to help zlaten out, the only fundamental flaw in hoping this works, fellaini and rooney don't offer us any kind of creative thinking, now pogba will improve our engine room 10 fold, which means less fellaini in the team, but? rooney is the white elephant in this team. Unless rooney improves 10 folds this season, mourinho will have to rethink where rooney fits in, so not only zlaten does benefit from the team, but mourinho's more dominating quicker vision for his team, rooney does hold back this vision. We will be getting allot of nose bleeds, its just a concern for our creative department and the pace mourinho wants our attack to play at, rooney I don't think fits that vision. I feel a 433 of 1 DM, and another midfielder alongside Pogba does make it work. Pogba should be taking rooney's position, and another CM to go alongside carrick
 
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