Even with Pogba, are there enough goals in squad to challenge for the league?

Fortitude

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This is our most likely attacking starting line-up from the looks of things:

-------------------Zlatan
Martial----------Rooney--------Mkhitaryan
-----------Pogba
-----------------------Carrick

Last season, this group of players provided this amount of goals in their respective leagues:

--------------------38
11-----------------8-----------------11
-------------8
---------------------------0

76 goals from 6 players, which combined with contributions from the rest of the squad of last season:

2nd team

------------------Rashford
Memphis--------Fellaini---------Mata
-----------BFS---------Schneiderlin

--------------------5
2-----------------1-------------------6
-------------0---------------1

15 from 6 players for a total of 91 goals.

There's no way Zlatan scores 38 goals in the PL; if he gets even half of that, he's doing well unless we're flying and he has an incredible return. Perhaps Martials numbers go up, whilst Rooney is an unknown quantity as a goalscorer these days. Mkhitaryan scoring 11 for us? Probable, whilst I'd expect double figures from Pogba if he's allowed to join the attack.

Off the bench, I think we all expect Rashford to get more than 5 goals. Memphis is an unknown quantity, Fellaini should be doing much better and it remains to be seen if Mata will be here come September. Bastian is unlikely to be here, his contribution is nought anyway... Schneiderlin should also be doing better than 1 league goal unless his playing time is severely diminished.

We don't have a prolific backline so anything they provide is a bonus rather than to be expected.

With all that said, from what we have, this kind of goal return:

Zlatan: 15-30
Martial: 10-20
Rooney: 10-15
Mkhi: 8-12
Pogba: 8-12
Squad members and Defenders: 15-20

Minimum expectancy: 66 goals
Maximum expectancy: 109 goals

Seems to be our range. The low end not being enough unless we're incredible defensively, and the high-end being a PL record and thus improbable. The median would be 87/88 goals, which is league-challenging, I would think.

I can't help but feel we need another goal-scoring contributor from the right side or to switch to a 4-3-3 with Rashford on the right. The latter will not happen (Rooney) whilst the former might, especially if Mata is shown the door.

If we manage 88 goals with the squad we currently have, it means we're flying and either have a few players performing to world class levels, or there's been a solid contribution from 1st team and bench alike.

How many goals do you think this squad has in it, and do you see it being enough to challenge for the league?
 
I do agree it's a worry. Personally i'm hoping we see the same or better numbers from Martial, similar from Mkhitaryan, and Depay and Rashford kick on. I think it would be daft to rely on Ibra, and it doesn't look as if we're signing another striker.
 
With Rashford, Martial, Miki in our front three we have players who can score, pace and dribbling. Pogba/Rooney behind them sounds great as well.
 
I do have a slight concern that we will struggle going through the middle with a lack of pace from Rooney and Ibra, with both liking to drop deep as well.

One thing I'm confident on though is that Jose won't be afraid to change things and upset people if it blatantly isn't working.

It feels like I say this every year, but it's make or break for Rooney now. We finally have a manager who won't just start him because of the name, he actually has to justify his place.
 
The upside is that we have several subs (likely to be used frequently) who have goals in them. Rashford, obviously. Fellaini too. Memphis will probably score a bit if he gets the minutes (and gets his shit together on the pitch to a greater extent). If Mata actually stays and takes on a squad role, he too will undoubtedly grab a goal here and there (he always does).

So, if the presumed starters don't fail to deliver, I think we look alright for goals. More important, in my opinion, to strengthen other areas.
 
We have plenty of goalscorers in this team. Question is if we the team can create chances. But having Ibra, Miki and Pogba is a huge boost compared to last season.
 
Twigginater said:
With Rashford, Martial, Miki in our front three we have players who can score, pace and dribbling. Pogba/Rooney behind them sounds great as well.
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Dont expect too much from him when it comes to scoring goals. He's an assist provider not a scorer. Missed a ton of chances for BVB
 
Sky1981 said:
Who cares. Distract not the muppets at this dark hour. We need every muppets on board the 1k thread
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This.

But if we keep Rojo and Jones there will be enough goals in our squad no doubt. If not at the right end, then at the wrong end.
 
Sometimes it's less about the personnel but how the team gels.
 
If Carrick, Rooney and Ibrahimovic are all starting at the same time then we won't get near the league. A 35 year old, a 34 year old and a 30 year old who plays like he's 40 all in our front six? People won't like to hear this* but that's a recipe for disaster.

*I guess anyone, maybe some will agree. A lot of posters acknowledge how badly Rooney has declined and want him gone. Most of the advocates for signing Ibrahimovic in the summer said he should be replacing Rooney, not playing alongside him. Carrick was widely regarded as being poor again last season and when we gave him a new contract the defence was that we needed his 'dressing room influence' and he wouldn't be a regular starter.
 
Simply adding another 20 goals to the team should improve us massively, and the additions of Zlatan and Mkhitaryan will contribute to that. Factor in a style of play that isn't safe, sideways passing boreball and I can see it ending in success.
 
Yes, easily. Every player in the team will probably have a higher chance of scoring if we're to play more attacking than under LvG.
 
Last 10 Premier League winners goal tally:
Leicester: 68
Chelsea: 73
City: 102
United: 86
City: 93
United: 78
Chelsea: 103
United: 68
United: 80
United: 83

Average: 83.4 goals

Last season we scored 49, so to reach that average we'd need 34 more goals. Factor in the rising competitiveness of this league and I think we'd only need about 25 more goals compared to last season to really challenge for the league. Obviously it's not that simple as we likely won't be getting as many clean sheets as we did last season but I reckon it's a good estimate. It's really just a matter of finishing off the 11-20th teams that we struggled against last season, and Zlatan should help with that.
 
United is in risk of not creating goal opportunities enough, not so much of putting them inside. If Mkhitaryan doesn't adapt soon and starts playing the team might have trouble creating chances, specially with Mata not even making the bench.
 
I think its fine.
Rooney will get 10-15. Ibra will get 20ish. Martial will get around 15. Mkhitaryan probably around 10. Then you have rashford who could get 10ish, Mata 5-10 as a squad player, pogba the same amount playing deeper. There are way more goals in the side then last year along with playing a more attacking style. We just need to get everything to click. Obviously we wont be breaking records, but I'm pretty sure I read Mourinho tends to average around 75 goals scored per season, not counting real madrid.
 
I can see Martial, Rashford and Lingard upping their output, the biggest issue in the squad is neither of the #10's are ideal, we could use a Griezmann to play off Ibra.
 
Yesterday we saw the same problems we have experienced for a good number of years, not just the LVG and Moyes eras. We rarely see our midfield players break into the box when we are confronted by a well organized defense. In addition, the attackers just man mark the defenders not looking for space when the opposition sit on the edge of the box. On many occasions, Ibra had the ball just on the 18 yd line and was waiting for the run, it never came. We therefore ended up moving the ball sideways and backwards. Contrast that to the few times that Mirallas and Barkley were in our box when Everton decided to attack.

Also, we are still shot shy. We use to have a decent number of players in the side who could hit the target from the 20-30 yd range, we don't shoot anymore, not even the likes of Rooney, unless he is frustrated and then the shot goes into row Z. Carrick has forgot how to shoot as well.

Consistently scoring goals is, or is going to be, our biggest problem. The forwards will get 2 or 3 against the poorer teams, but then hit a blank against the teams when you need them to score.
 
History does not matter when looking at statistic like this because there is a possibility that something can just click in a player and he can turns on 'Jamie Vardy' mode in the present, scoring more goals than anticipated.

I am not concerned with our ability to score goals, but moreso the type of tactics we utilize to strengthen our offensive capabilities.
 
The off the ball movement in the final third is certainly something that should make Mourinho start scratching his head. This, of course, doesn't mean that things won't get better as the season progresses and we slowly become a Mourinho side.

First of all, we attempt to completely alter our plans in the attacking half. Last season, under LvG, when we got to the final third, we basically had two options. The first was to pass the ball to Martial out wide and create room for him to go 1v1 against his marker. The other was to get the ball to Mata, mainly in the wide areas too, and expect of him to dictate play by cutting inside and by picking the right passes. When these two options failed, the goal was usually to switch play and create space for one of the FBs to cross the ball in the box.

The signing of Ibrahimovic shifts the focus of our attacking plays from the wide areas (a basic principle of Dutch football) to the more central channels (something Mourinho always liked). We signed Zlatan, at the age of 35, for his skills on the ball, his killer instinct in the box and his play making abilities from the spaces in between the lines. We didn't get him to make him run down the channels and tire opposition CBs by playing with his back to goal all the time.

So, we need runs in behind the opposition defense. Martial will need to improve his movement instead of just hugging the touchline and waiting for the ball to come to him. Mkhitaryan will also have to mix things up a bit and look to get into areas where he will be able to finish moves instead of looking to move inwards in order to be the play maker. And Rooney should start making more runs in the box instead of trying to get on the ball in areas where he's completely ineffective. Finally, it's two new players in the attacking quadruple with the responsibility of taking over the play making duties in the attacking half from the other two, who used to be the focal point of LvG's side when we had the ball. And we're still missing Pogba who can be a threat from the midfield, a much bigger one than Herrera or Fellaini. It will take time, there's lots of goals between these players but they must learn how to link up well with each other. That's what are managers are being paid for.

It's no coincidence that, at this early stage under Mourinho, we look better when Rashford is on the pitch. He offers us the ability to play a style most of our players, especially Rooney, were used to under Fergie. One forward stretching the defenses with his runs and creating spaces for Rooney and the wingers to receive the ball while facing the goal and then do their thing. It just shows that the primary plan (with Ibra) still needs work. In the meantime it will be interesting to see Mourinho's choices until his ideas are fully implemented. My guess is that he will not start with the lineup everybody considers as the obvious one right now. Starting Lingard on the right yesterday was one of the experiments we may see during the first weeks of the season.
 
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I don't see us scoring much because I think we will still have problems creating chances. I hope we improve massively but the speed of our attacks still looks too slow to me.
 
Devil may care said:
I can see Martial, Rashford and Lingard upping their output, the biggest issue in the squad is neither of the #10's are ideal, we could use a Griezmann to play off Ibra.
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This.

It's a weak spot for us at the moment, and i fully expected us to go for someone like Griezmann this summer, but we turned our focus to pogba.

In a year from now i expect a different 9 and 10 to ibra and rooney, but for now i'm a little worried.
 
It's more the fluidity in attack than having players with goals in them, that I'm concern about. A slick attacking unit can boost individual stats a fair bit. So what we need is that unit packing a punch. From a perspective of the unit I still think we could do with a really quick right winger. Not necessarily a big goalscorer who will add to the numbers but help the team balance of having players who can stretch teams on either flanks.
 
With Pogba added it's a strong attacking line up. Just need to break free of the tumescent mentality of the last 2 seasons and that may take time for some of our players. If you want to ensure more goals then a strong defence and possibly a DM that allows the attacking players to actually concentrate on creating and scoring will be more important.
 
We're still lacking that oomph, but with a lot more freedom/less rigidity in attack we should be okay.
 
I do think we have goals in us, but we still need another creative winger/wow factor out there, still not enough quality in the squad. and we are fecked. Mahrez would be perfect for us.
 
I think we are more likely to win 1-0 / 2-0 this year than by 4/5/6, but that'll be OK as long as we are consistent. Mourinho will want us being solid first, but I still expect better football than LVG.
 
Fortitude said:
This is our most likely attacking starting line-up from the looks of things :


-------------------Zlatan
Martial----------Rooney--------Mkhitaryan
-----------Pogba
-----------------------Carrick

Last season, this group of players provided this amount of goals in their respective leagues:

--------------------38
11-----------------8-----------------11
-------------8
---------------------------0

76 goals from 6 players, which combined with contributions from the rest of the squad of last season:

2nd team

------------------Rashford
Memphis--------Fellaini---------Mata
-----------BFS---------Schneiderlin

--------------------5
2-----------------1-------------------6
-------------0---------------1

15 from 6 players for a total of 91 goals.

There's no way Zlatan scores 38 goals in the PL; if he gets even half of that, he's doing well unless we're flying and he has an incredible return. Perhaps Martials numbers go up, whilst Rooney is an unknown quantity as a goalscorer these days. Mkhitaryan scoring 11 for us? Probable, whilst I'd expect double figures from Pogba if he's allowed to join the attack.

Off the bench, I think we all expect Rashford to get more than 5 goals. Memphis is an unknown quantity, Fellaini should be doing much better and it remains to be seen if Mata will be here come September. Bastian is unlikely to be here, his contribution is nought anyway... Schneiderlin should also be doing better than 1 league goal unless his playing time is severely diminished.

We don't have a prolific backline so anything they provide is a bonus rather than to be expected.

With all that said, from what we have, this kind of goal return:

Zlatan: 15-30
Martial: 10-20
Rooney: 10-15
Mkhi: 8-12
Pogba: 8-12
Squad members and Defenders: 15-20

Minimum expectancy: 66 goals
Maximum expectancy: 109 goals

Seems to be our range. The low end not being enough unless we're incredible defensively, and the high-end being a PL record and thus improbable. The median would be 87/88 goals, which is league-challenging, I would think.

I can't help but feel we need another goal-scoring contributor from the right side or to switch to a 4-3-3 with Rashford on the right. The latter will not happen (Rooney) whilst the former might, especially if Mata is shown the door.

If we manage 88 goals with the squad we currently have, it means we're flying and either have a few players performing to world class levels, or there's been a solid contribution from 1st team and bench alike.

How many goals do you think this squad has in it, and do you see it being enough to challenge for the league?
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if Rooney does what he is expected to do he should get 15 league goals. Zlatan too should get about 18 or he was just a waste of time. martial I'm hoping for 11 miki maybe 8 or 9. Pogba will be further back so 6 is my expectation, Carrick maybe 2 back 4 should get about 6 in all own Goal 4. which leaves us with 70 This is now where the squad comes in if the squad players can push us up to high 80s /low 90s we are in business
 
There'll be enough goals. I'd expect our young players - Martial and Rashford - to chip in with 5 to 10 goals each, Mkhitaryan will probably get close to 10, Zlatan should be able to get 10-15 minimum, Rooney should chip in with around 10 and we will get goals from squad players here and there. All in all I believe we're capable of getting 70-75 goals in a season which should be sufficient. I never like to look at those things in total, the real question is if we have players capable of outscoring the opposition looking at games in isolation and the answer is a clear and resounding yes.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It's more the fluidity in attack than having players with goals in them, that I'm concern about. A slick attacking unit can boost individual stats a fair bit. So what we need is that unit packing a punch. From a perspective of the unit I still think we could do with a really quick right winger. Not necessarily a big goalscorer who will add to the numbers but help the team balance of having players who can stretch teams on either flanks.
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Well put! The individuals are fine. Apart from the quality of one of the Barcelona trio for example, our players are good enough. The problem however is if you want to achieve attacking fluidity with very good players (just below the Neymars and Messis of this world) relies on continuity, coaching, structure, basically training ground work and familiarity among the players. That's what we see with Arsenal, Dortmund, and even last year's Spurs. We haven't had a clear structure in our team for years now even when we were efficient enough to win under Fergie's last few years. This is why unless we get what amounts to one of only 5 or 6 attacking minded players in the world, it's difficult to see how this team can be fluid enough. That's not to say however that it can't compete for the league as we've seen plenty of functional solid teams win the PL down the years.
 
We absolutely have enough goalscorers, it's a question of whether they gel. In Ferguson's last year we had RvP-Kagawa/Welbeck-Rooney-Valencia upfront most of the time with Carrick and Cleverley behind and we scored 86 goals in the league. Ibrahimovic will probably not score as many as RvP did but Martial, Rashford, Rooney and Mkhitaryan will definitely score a lot of goals, not to mention Pogba, Mata, Memphis etc will add a couple of goals as well.
 
I don't think adding up how much they all scored last season will have any baring on this year. Our attack was crap so I expect better from Rooney and Martial with a creative force like Pogba behind. Mix in Miki, Zlatan and a number of scorers off the bench and we will be fine.

It's all about getting the attack to gel early on.

Rashford will be key off the bench with his pace, skill and finishing.
 
Think we'll be too static with Rooney and Zlatan playing together and it'll make it easier for teams to defend against. With the overall quality of the league - and teams inevitably parking the bus at OT - I just don't see those 2 getting anywhere near 30 goals between them. I don't think that we'll see the best of Mkhi if Zlatan is the focal point either, as he seems to play better with a quick striker making runs in behind the opposition defence. All adds up to Rashford being the impact sub and getting 15 or so himself.

We'll need a few players to get into double figures, as I just don't see any one individual scoring consistently enough.
 
Borys said:
We have plenty of goalscorers in this team. Question is if we the team can create chances. But having Ibra, Miki and Pogba is a huge boost compared to last season.
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Pogba and Micky were top assist makers in their respective leagues last year..
 
I can't remember the last time I saw a thunderbolt of a shot from 25-30m+ out. Against Chelsea at OT, Rooney had a great effort and I genuinely got happy (probably also because of the boring football we played under Van Gaal). There are several players in the squad that used to have a great shot in them.

We can improve a lot in set pieces, and counterattacks. I think there are lots of goals in the left side of the team. I'm hoping that Mourinho gets the right side going so we won't be that "one dimensional" in the attack..
 
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