EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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That has got to be the biggest pile of steaming crap I've heard in a very long time. If you dissect what he's saying in the speech it's actually quite laughable and would not stand up to any kind of questioning.
It's not the 1950's ho ho ho , it's the 1640's
Why trade with Europe when we can trade with Australia, Canada and New Zealand, who speak English !(whose combined population is less than France alone).
Why trade with Europe when we can trade with Australia, Canada and New Zealand, who speak English !(whose combined population is less than France alone).
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Maybe we could sell jumpers to all those sheep in Australia & New Zeeland
Or ice cream to the eskimos in Canada
Well, that's the EU-funded OECD flushing its credibility down the toilet this morning.
Gen Sec of the OECD: "There is no upside for the UK in Brexit." Not even Remain's own ProjectFear has been that crazy with its predictions.
Still. i'd like to see the read the report in detail and refute it properly, so off to find a link i go...
Yes, @NinjaFletch made me aware of the encroaching percentile.
Although to be truthful, i did expect a noticeable swing toward Remain, at least in the short term. Presumably there are other [ost-Obama polls out there, however i've not seen them raised on Twitter by BSIE campaigners.
Gen Sec of the OECD: "There is no upside for the UK in Brexit." Not even Remain's own ProjectFear has been that crazy with its predictions.
Still. i'd like to see the read the report in detail and refute it properly, so off to find a link i go...
Yes, @NinjaFletch made me aware of the encroaching percentile.
Although to be truthful, i did expect a noticeable swing toward Remain, at least in the short term. Presumably there are other [ost-Obama polls out there, however i've not seen them raised on Twitter by BSIE campaigners.Or...why have a trading policy handicapped by a flawed and failing political union, when you can shake the parasites off?
Well, that's the EU-funded OECD flushing its credibility down the toilet this morning.
Gen Sec of the OECD: "There is no upside for the UK in Brexit." Not even Remain's own ProjectFear has been that crazy with its predictions.
Still. i'd like to see the read the report in detail and refute it properly, so off to find a link i go...
Yes, @NinjaFletch made me aware of the encroaching percentile.
I've seen the yougov poll that suggest that people seem to think Obama should stay out of the debate.
Honestly I don't think the numbers on that poll you linked are hugely surprising. My interpretation is that the already decided voters tend to view Obama's comments as favourable or unfavourable depending on their preexisting viewpoints with a large chunk in the middle and on the fringes of the Yes/No camps basically not giving two shits about it or not thinking them that important.
Like you I'd have expected Obama's comments to have been taken more seriously, but I guess the rhetoric Leave used to mitigate them is something we already know appeals to Leave voters.
Hope the Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders will be flocking to buy from the UK like back in the 50s & 60s, but as Hannan said it's no longer the 50s and there are other producers that as he says have developed considerably since that time , ie India & China, but not as buyers, as sellers. Just hope he knows what he's doing.
The idea would be to have FTA with all of those over time, something which the EU has struggled with. The present Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, shall need to be expanded to a larger trade ministry. It would go from a minor office of government to being one of the most important.
I'm not sure I understand anymore why this referendum is even happening.
First Cameron used the idea to get re-elected
Says he would back remain if there is real change
Doesn't get real change and still backs remain, why?
First Cameron used the idea to get re-elected
Says he would back remain if there is real change
Doesn't get real change and still backs remain, why?
to suggest the UK on its own would be able to negotiate better trade deals is like saying a small company can negotiate a better business deal than a larger one... The argument just doesn't hold up.
This sounds so much like when I was growing up in the 60s and early 70s. Department of Trade and Industry, trading with the Commonwealth, immigrants from the ex-colonies followed by devaluation etc etc. The world has changed since then.
Its nothing like that at all. You can have a large trade deal negotiated by the EU and shared between the whole of the EU with various restrictions and rules which do not benefit Britain or you can have a slightly smaller trade deal tailored just to the UK and only for the benefit of the UK and its trading partner which could actually be more a lot more beneficial for the two direct trading partners.
With your example, yes a big company may be more attractive to trade with but each part of that big company only gets a small slice of the deal/profit as there are more members involved. If you are a smaller company you can negotiate without any restrictions and when the deal is done you take all of the profit and the benefit from it, there is no percentage going elsewhere or fees you have to pay to get the deal in the first place.
Only did it so he can keep the right wing of his party happy
Utter garbage, you've not got a scooby what you're taking about have you? When talking about trade deals we're talking about fixing tariffs and quality requirements beneficial to the whole of the EU for both the import and export of good protecting our own industries and getting the best value for us as consumers. It's not about splitting off small portions of every deal we do and sharing with all the other EU countries. The bigger you are and the broader portfolio of outgoing products and consumers for imports then the more attractive you are and the better deal you are likely to get.
For example, the EU could insist that Chinese steel has to have less than 5 parts per million boron for it to be used in construction projects and fix tariffs so that Chinese steel would not endanger the European steel industry but could compete fairly. In return the Chinese set similar tariffs on cheese, wine, chocolate, clothes that they import into their domestic market. In reality China being China they apply extra pressure on the British alone to ensure such small issues as the boron quantity and therefore the safety of that steel is removed from the table in return for them agreeing to build and operate a power station for us at ridiculously high fixed energy prices that the UK tax payer will have to meet.
The EU were the one last obstacle to that deal going through and Dodgy Dave wiggled his way around it for his chums in Beijing only to see them dump all their lower quality steel on the European market at the lower tariff payable for alloys and as a result feck over our steel industry. The EU might be better off without us fecking up their market in this way but I've no faith in Dave and his mates cutting any deals that will benefit the UK as a whole when they could instead be making a few more bucks for their business partners elsewhere.
Well Obama and Clinton have said we will be at the back of the queue for trade deals with them of course, but as the topic of the day seems to be Canada, Australia and New Zealand it will be interesting to see what they come up with won't it?
It is remarkable that the phantom Ukip threat put us in this position.
Do you have any sources to back this up? Why does the large company have to share this EU-wide deal, sliced and diced among its members, while small companies can swoop in and 'take all of the profit'?
Why is Canada (or any other single country with another) even bothering to negotiate with the mighty EU then? They may as well turn off the lights and close up shop.
You might care to list the EU's recent triumphs in international trade though, there must be so many to choose from after all.
Yes, much has indeed changed since the 60s and 70s, including the nature of the European Union.
But all i mean by my earlier post was that trade negotiations would take on a greater importance in the futurem and require resources to match. Your comparison with the Commonwealth is a nonsense entirely of your won creation.
It is interesting however, to note those things which you didn't feel able to disagree with Hannan on: cots, economic performance, democracy e.t.c.
I'm only repeating what your friend Hannan said, he mentioned these countries, those countries are part of the Commonwealth I'm still waiting for someone to tell me who the Uk is going to trade with and these fantastic deals they're going to make , not Europe, not the USA , not the Commonwealth, certainly not India or China, the suspense....
The UK is going to suffer badly if he gets it's way, basically there's no financial vision and just a misguided utopian view of a democracy that brings back the old true British values or rather English values - this is nonsense
It's not 1950 1960 1970 or 1642
Another aspect of TTIP and the US using it to control the EU.
http://www.activistpost.com/2016/04...GN&utm_term=0_b0c7fb76bd-8b323f9b18-387977489
http://www.activistpost.com/2016/04...GN&utm_term=0_b0c7fb76bd-8b323f9b18-387977489
Alas, I don't have a head-scratching ape or WTF? emoji at my disposal.
Besides yourself, has anyone actually made the case for a cessation of trade with the majority of this planet?
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June 23rd remainss too close to call.
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Let us suppose that through Brexit and the stresses of currency union that the EU began to unravel, how do you think Europe should formalise its cooperation in the future? What do you see as essential in the current structure of the European Union?
If there were a genuine belief in this country that Brussels could be reformed, its excesses scaled back, we probably wouldn't even be at this point you know. Sadly it has been overtaken be such greed, both political and monetary.
If there were a genuine belief in this country that Brussels could be reformed, its excesses scaled back, we probably wouldn't even be at this point you know. Sadly it has been overtaken be such greed, both political and monetary.
Got my polling card yesterday, I feel so enfranchised! Ye Brits sure are efficient
Seriously though, sway me - I am well on the Stay side but will always listen to cogent arguments. Leave folks, what do I not know about that could make me vote Leave?
Seriously though, sway me - I am well on the Stay side but will always listen to cogent arguments. Leave folks, what do I not know about that could make me vote Leave?
Ah, I'm getting depressed about this. We're in Italy at the mo but we've made sure we'll be back in the UK in time to vote, as I think every one of the "stay" votes is needed. I doorstepped during the Common Market campaign back in the 70s and it's hard to think we could actually go backwards, over 40 years later.
It seems that you try to insult everyone that doesn't agree with your ridiculous opinions and are also deaf to what you listen to and blind to what you read, yet again no answer to the question, because those living in fantasy world think the Uk are going to making these fantastic deals with their current trading partners from a position of considerable weakness, dream on!
Penna, it's going to be more than 40 years backwards, I'm a British born person living in France, I could vote if I wanted to and I would vote remain if I did. I'm not going to vote as I will never live in the UK again and for me it's up to the people living there to decide. I just hope that there are enough people that vote stay.
On this thread I've been accused of being xenophobic because I live in France
, funnily enough my wife is french, my children have dual nationality, in my job I deal internationally with Americans, Africans, Arabs, all nationalities.I even suspect they think I voted Labour, I had voted Tory for the majority of my adult life until I left the UK.
Have no political alliances really, other than being against extremists either on the right or the left, unlike some on here who have agendas but no realistic solutions.
As I have no agenda I am only giving my opinion that the UK will make an enormous mistake if they leave. The only way it will affect me is that I will take French nationality if the unthinkable happens.
Brexits seem very dizzy about the eight economists who have backed them to leave . Suppose they needed some good news after the disaster of last week.
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Just watching the morning's news, the focus of Leave attack seems to be the evils of TTIP at the moment. The yanks are shafting europe, allegedly. Quite why the German, British and French negotiators are coming off second best to the US I'm not sure, when we have a bigger market and GDP, but Leave say they are. If we do leave though, and Britain negotiates alone (when our it's our turn in the queue) then we will be able to negotiate a much better deal apparently. From a smaller, weaker position. Handy for Leave this is all unprovable really, ain't it?
The worst thing that can happen to Leave is that they actually win the Referendum, then reality will gradually dawn on them. If they lose they can continue to moan about the EU, lack of democracy etc , foreigners, immigrants and the rest of the claptrap.
I thought about this to vote exit, if I was allowed. But the truth is I don't really care, all this scare mongering is totally unfounded imo as nobody knows. Basically I'd just like to see Cameron gone, the tories fall apart and the dismantling of the sceptic EU. If there was a single vote for all of these things I'd be there.
I'm going to vote remain, but it's undeniable that scaremongering is being used to cover vested interests at the moment.
This process should have progressed with answering the reasons people want to leave but instead it's just aimed at making enough people fear any ramifications.
Not unexpected though after Cameron pretended he had tough discussions with Brussels and came back victorious.
This process should have progressed with answering the reasons people want to leave but instead it's just aimed at making enough people fear any ramifications.
Not unexpected though after Cameron pretended he had tough discussions with Brussels and came back victorious.
OK so lets be factual the EU does not fund the OECD - it is funded by its individual members ... USA and Japan being the two biggest contributors
If you look at its total funding over half comes from non EU members - given that Russia is in talks to join this % will only increase as well...
so perhaps you want to check whose credibility is in the toilet because it seems you are just point blank lying because the facts don't fit your agenda?
http://www.oecd.org/about/budget/member-countries-budget-contributions.htm
leaving the EU, just opens up the door to dodgy deals being made by crooked politicians, not necessarily in Britain's interests. We all know that would happen at some point. Yes, there may be more red tape being in the EU but there is less chance of Arthur daley type deals going on.
But off course we all know that at that heart of this referendum is some folks pushing it because they don't want no more johnny foreigners coming in
But off course we all know that at that heart of this referendum is some folks pushing it because they don't want no more johnny foreigners coming in
I saw an interview with a british cheese maker that cant call his cheese Feta cos its not made in Greece and cant name his cheese Halloumi cos it's not made in Cyprus. This had a 25% impact on his sales. This is just what we want more of, stupidity.
If anyone can convince me that this is an excellent idea I will campaign for the stay vote.
If anyone can convince me that this is an excellent idea I will campaign for the stay vote.
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